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Nikon shares rise as Nikkei suggests mirrorless launch

By dpreview staff on Sep 9, 2011 at 21:16 GMT

Nikon shares have risen on rumors of the launch of a mirrorless camera. A report by Japanese financial paper Nikkei (Nihon Keizai Shimbum) suggested the company will launch a camera at a price of around $900-$1300. This was enough to prompt Nikon to take the unusual step of issuing a statement saying it had not announced any such camera. Shares closed 10% higher than on September 6th, boosted by the rumors.

Click here to read news service Reuters' report on the story

Comments

Total comments: 115
CameraLabTester
By CameraLabTester (Sep 24, 2011)

Reduce the price by half, and these will sell like...

1 upvote
PatMann
By PatMann (Sep 18, 2011)

I agree that this is a good choice. Particularly with the ability to use current Nikon lenses with adapter, preserving VR and AF, this camera can provide a small high quality sensor for telephotos for wildlife shots, far superior to the superzooms. My 80-200 f/2.8 becomes a 220-540 f/2.8 - imagine what you'd pay for that for APS-C or FX. My 70-300 is only f/5.6, but now it's a 190-800 f/4.5 - f/5.6 VR. I'm looking forward to testing these combinations. The center sharpness of these lenses is quite good, should hold up well to a 10 mp sensor at this small size.

For this application, Nikon clearly needs to add a supplemental battery pack that uses at least 4 x AA batteries to power the larger lenses over a day. It could sit below the camera, or at the side to provide a more solid grip, and include a secure tripod foot.

For the system to be complete, I need a 6mm or 7mm (which could be a 6-15 or so zoom), a 12mm f/1.4, a 30mm f/1.4, and a macro somewhere in the 30 to 60mm range.

0 upvotes
kryters
By kryters (Sep 17, 2011)

Interestingly, as the existing mirrorless manufacturers push towards the compact upgrade market, they have left a sizeable hole in the market at the enthusiast end. The LX5 / G series and S90 range have shown there to be a attractive market for high end compact / range finder cameras. Perhaps a bit more diversity will be forthcoming if Nikon and Canon enter the sector.

0 upvotes
peeech
By peeech (Sep 14, 2011)

For those of you who might want to try a MFT (well-used acronym for the Micro Four Thirds system) cam, you absolutely cannot beat this deal:

http://tinyurl.com/3crrkoq

Please note the great features, including an interactive, articulated 3" LCD screen. The cam has a 2X crop factor. This is a second generation camera, so it isn't the most modern, but it comes well-recommended and well-featured.

I have one and also the MFT/EOS adapter to allow me to use my EOS lenses

I love it. I have no connection with the retailer in the URL, either.

peeech

0 upvotes
Vadimka
By Vadimka (Sep 14, 2011)

Many people are unhappy about rumored x2.7 crop factor in rumored Nikon mirrorless camera, but here is why I think Nikon will make a great decision should they choose to go with small crop.

1. To really standout in competition with mirrorless you need smaller form factor and to achieve this you have to reduce Lens size. (only possible with smaller sensor considering sensor technology available today)
2. Keeping old mount and semi-mechanical connection and long flange does not make sense in a long run. Nikon need to release new mount sooner or later so it might be now.
3. Smaller crop will not cannibalize their own FF and APS-C sales. They can only keep top selling and pro models of DSLR and stop making cheap stuff and lenses.
4. Smaller sensor doesn't mean bad image quality, you can just physically crop the Large sensor and reduce the resolution.
5. Nikon can make small lenses at lower cost but can still charge the price of the its APS-C equivalents, thus yelling bigger profit.
-cont

0 upvotes
Vadimka
By Vadimka (Sep 14, 2011)

continue...

6. You can always do a mirrorless based on current APS-C and FF bodies with just removing the mirror box and prism and sticking EVF.
7. As long as they do a good job on the new mount, you can alway increase the sensor size and create bigger lenses in the future. Right mount can be used on both large and small camera with both large and small lenses, its all about Electronic connections, flange and diameter of the mount.

So no panic, we will get there, the affordable mirrorless FF will come one day, but sensors need to improve first.

0 upvotes
Steve oliphant
By Steve oliphant (Sep 13, 2011)

Nikon needs to do something cool ,like a FM 2 body that can take a manual lens and auto focus lenses ,no screen on the back instead a EVF to split prism , a 12mp full frame sensor .

0 upvotes
Marty4650
By Marty4650 (Sep 12, 2011)

Do not underestimate Nikon. They are not known for making poor products or implementing them poorly.

My guess is they have waited to enter the MILC market so they could see what features and abilities the market wanted. They had no need to be first, they are doing very well financially, so this isn't an act of desperation for them.

The market leader is rarely the innovator or the pioneer. It is whoever implements best. And Nikon is pretty good at implementing.

0 upvotes
CFynn
By CFynn (Sep 13, 2011)

Nikon's top end equipment is great - but when it comes to consumer cameras they are no better than any other manufacturer. This mirrorless camera is after all a CoolPix.

0 upvotes
justmeMN
By justmeMN (Sep 13, 2011)

It will be interesting to see if Nikon can get things right in version 1.0 of their mirrorless camera. I hope so.

0 upvotes
Eleson
By Eleson (Sep 12, 2011)

Nikons route will be interesting to follow.

Sony's route have been smarter than they understood themself.
They have opted for a rather large mount (for an APS sensor) with short flange distance.
And this have opened the path for alot of adapters, and alot of forgotten gems gathering dust have come alive, and enthusiasts buy NEX for that reason.
I don't see Nikon chosing a smaller sensor and still keep the mount wide enough for adapters, so this doesn't seem to be an effort to wake older lenses from the dead.

0 upvotes
Vadimka
By Vadimka (Sep 14, 2011)

Its funny how you saying Sony engineers were clueless. :) While I'm not big fan of Sony and do think they make bad decisions all the time, I have to disagree with you this time. Sony did not create an E-mount by chance. Small register and large diameter are all there on purpose and the purpose is cinematography. The do make some great pro-cine equipment and they wanted to have a mount that could be easily adaptable to most Pro cine lenses, thus large mount diameter. (I also think they saw Pana and Oly having a success with other lens adoptions on their first offerings and they know it was big)
I don't see a big deal about x2.7, why would you want a much smaller camera if you obligated to use large lenses. IMHO

0 upvotes
Paul Janders
By Paul Janders (Sep 12, 2011)

DPR needs a general article describing what mirrorless cameras are. It should be at least as good as this entry from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirrorless_interchangeable-lens_camera

I learned a lot I didn't know about this new class of cameras from reading the Wikipedia entry. In contrast, the most extensive information I could find on DPR was a few paragraphs at the end of their Digital SLR Buying Guide.

A search of DPR's site reveals only press releases from manufacturers and forum discussions. Lots of talk from users on the Forums about this subject but very little guidance from DPR.

Not a good showing for a site that bills itself as, "one of, if not the, premium digital photography site."

The bottom line? As of now, if you need to educate yourself about this new type of camera technology you're not going to find the information you're seeking on DPR.

0 upvotes
babamaru
By babamaru (Sep 12, 2011)

"Now your talkin'! Leap frog, the APC, and go FF. Mate that with a stellar, f/1.8, or better, normal prime! All in a total package, smaller than the D5100, and it's a done deal! Priced at no more than $500 to start"

Thrown an all-purpose robot/mech servant, and a harem of 57 young virgins, and they almost got me sold!

0 upvotes
Debankur Mukherjee
By Debankur Mukherjee (Sep 12, 2011)

Great News if its true......but if smaller sensor size than 4/3 is provided I dont think it will help much than the already existing coolpix range....

0 upvotes
slncezgsi
By slncezgsi (Sep 11, 2011)

IF this rumor about 2.6 crop factor Nikon is right I am perfectly confident it will NOT have a rangefinder. I mean / what for? You would need very fast lenses to get any decent DOF effects any further that macro anyhow with sensor that small. So AF will do just fine. This will be a higher-end camera for masses which will try to get the market share from m4/3 and high end compacts like XZ-1 or LX5 with whatever new features or design they will come up with.

Do not get me wrong - I really hope it will be well thought out and come with good lenses - but it is not going to be a poor man's M9 (go to NEX or GXR for that). Let's put our expectations on realistic level, otherwise shortly after introduction the camera will get all the bashing possible like it happened to X100 ...

0 upvotes
DioCanon
By DioCanon (Sep 11, 2011)

I am really shocked to see on the Nikon rumors website
that they give as almost sure 100% a sensor size smaller than the 4:3!!!

It' a real shame on nikon, if they wanted to shrink the size they could have at least joined the already successful 4:3...

Now all my hopes are towards Canon!

3 upvotes
tbcass
By tbcass (Sep 11, 2011)

Are you a Canikon fanboy? Why not buy one of the other excellent large sensor (APS-C or 4/3) mirrorless cameras if that's what you want or Sony SLT who's performance is arguably better than the 4/3. It's because of sheep like you that Canon and Nikon have stopped being innovative. This goes to all you Canikon sheep out there.

3 upvotes
Art Vandelay II
By Art Vandelay II (Sep 11, 2011)

I just bought an Olympus XZ-1 wit a 4.6x crop sensor. I'm honestly blown away with the results I'm seeing. The Nikon CX system will obviously be using a much larger sensor with a 2.7x crop. The XZ-1 has convinced me Nikon has made the right choice. I bet the CX cameras will be about the same size as the XZ-1, yet yeild much higher IQ and more DOF control (when using fast primes). It really could be the sweet spot for mirroless camera sensors. Well, unless you enjoy carrying a camera bag...and who does?

1 upvote
Mojn
By Mojn (Sep 11, 2011)

XZ-1 IQ is not even close to APS-C. I would not bother putting a Nikkor prime in front of a smudge-sensor like that one.

1 upvote
Joel dc
By Joel dc (Sep 11, 2011)

i want a mirrorless nikon with range finder... but can still use the AF/AF-S lenses... i love these lenses and they work perfectly superb.... no need to invent new lenses.... but wanting to try new bodies.... :)

0 upvotes
ovrebekk
By ovrebekk (Sep 12, 2011)

Couldn't agree more.
A mirrorless camera would be exciting, but please keep the F-mount!
I have a bagful of Nikon lenses already, and if they release a new mount there is no particular reason for me to choose Nikon if I want a mirrorless camera.

Also, I don't want a super small sensor. 1,5x crop is small enough.

0 upvotes
ScottieC
By ScottieC (Sep 11, 2011)

A few people are saying Full Frame on a mirror-less E-mount system, but I don't think it will work, I think you will get massive vignetting. I think the distance from the lens mount to the register of the sensor would be too close with the current mount. Nikon and Canon would need to make a different mount, or a wider body. I'm not even sure APS-H will do the trick.

0 upvotes
Winnie B
By Winnie B (Sep 11, 2011)

i just wish canon would make a m4/3 system with in-body image stabilization and evf or ovf that looks like their old range finders.

0 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Sep 10, 2011)

i think 2.6x is cool. this could be THE perfect digital super16 filmcamera.

i hope for a hackable OS when it really tries to combine a camera with a phone. that could be the next gh-1 (gh13)

0 upvotes
Zoltan Csuka
By Zoltan Csuka (Sep 10, 2011)

Yeah, yeah, this is old news, EVERYBODY knows about the 1" mirrorless Nikon system to be announced and even photos of the lens mount have been circulated by Nikon for the last few months and this vehement denial from Nikon's end is just a page taken from Apple's book. And now even DPR is playing the game...

0 upvotes
Aasmund G
By Aasmund G (Sep 10, 2011)

Honestly, this article reduces my faith in the quality of dpreview, if they can't take better pictures than this...

0 upvotes
Neloy Sinha
By Neloy Sinha (Sep 10, 2011)

After reading several of the articlesmeet, it appeared that we photo friendly people like to gssip. We have unlimited imagination. We behave like CEO of the photographic board room to decide what to do or not to .If Nikon is ot interested go for Sony or Olympus.You cannot push those companies.They are also watching the market & its trend.They are in business for more than half a century.Remember for Nikon or Cannon the main cmpetitiors are the high tech mobiles which are good enough for HD movies & small prints (6/4 inch) factor.I believe many of the contributors in this column have one such talking and snapping machine.It is up to them whether they are utilizing their potential or not.Simply introducing a mirror less is just a statement that I am also present.Whenever one adds a good zoom the pocketable factor doesnot exist any more.With a pan cake it is just a fixed focus camera may be with a bigger sensor like Fuji X100.Sorry popular demand & business strategies do not always meet.

2 upvotes
digby dart
By digby dart (Sep 10, 2011)

Nikon could always buy x100 & x10's and re badge them for the Japanese market, while still selling the old technology stuff outside of Japan where it still makes them lots of money. Perhaps another option would be to buy Sony mirrorless cameras and retro fit Nikon mounts instead of just using Sony sensors.

0 upvotes
Zvonimir Tosic
By Zvonimir Tosic (Sep 11, 2011)

Before venturing to buy Minolta's (D)SLR business from KonicaMinolta, Sony was playing with the idea to buy Nikon.

0 upvotes
ukwoody
By ukwoody (Sep 10, 2011)

But the fact that it is highly unusual for Nikon to publicy denounce the announcement, suggests there may still be no camera. Surely otherwise they would just sit back, smile and say no comment, as people waited hopefully for the new release, meaning other brands would loose out in the mean time as people waited to see Nikons offering.

Personally I think it ultimitately inevitible that canonikon will have to go down the mirroless route though.

woody

0 upvotes
Antonio Rojilla
By Antonio Rojilla (Sep 10, 2011)

Today: "Nikon shares rise as Nikkei suggests mirrorless launch"

A few days later: "Nikon shares plummet after mirrorless launched"

11 upvotes
increments
By increments (Sep 10, 2011)

My take is that for this to be interesting it has to be significantly smaller w/ lenses than the current mirrorless cameras. IQ needs to be competitive with m4/3.

Lens Wishlist:
Quality pancakes from wide angle to mild telephoto. Pentax make a 40mm pancake for their dslrs which would be 108mm on a 2.7 crop factor so that's possible.

In-body VR to keep lenses small plus a shallow mount and this could be very attractive. Of course it'll probably be completely different :)

0 upvotes
increments
By increments (Sep 10, 2011)

Edit: should say with SMALLER lenses than current mirrorless cameras.

0 upvotes
Duckie
By Duckie (Sep 10, 2011)

By keeping the sensor smaller, it reduces the issues of vignetting and peripheral loss of sharpness if Nikon chooses not to shrink the size of the lense by too muh (let's hope so). Let's also hope they nikon lenses wont' have those horrible bokeh other brands so far offer. But there wouldn't be muh DOF to play with. TO be honey such a camera should be a convenience camera for outdoors more for serious stuff and as such DOF is less of a concern provided there is no funny artifacts in the bokeh.

Let's hope not too much money is being asked for.....

0 upvotes
Bob Meyer
By Bob Meyer (Sep 11, 2011)

Actually, there will be TOO MUCH DOF to play with, not too little.

0 upvotes
Duckie
By Duckie (Sep 11, 2011)

Not much fun.

0 upvotes
michaelrz
By michaelrz (Sep 10, 2011)

I quite disagree with those who dismiss the 2.7x crop factor.
Many photographers enjoyed (and still do) the Canon s95, the Oly xz1 or the Pana lx5 type of cameras, in spite of their obvious IQ inferiority compared to DSLRs.
Getting an interchangeable lens camera about their size with a noticeably better IQ, small, lightweight lenses and high quality optics would be a tempting offer to many, IMHO.
Provided of course, that camera and lenses are priced reasonably by Nikon.

0 upvotes
Carsten Saager
By Carsten Saager (Sep 10, 2011)

I agree, some applications ask for a large depth of field. Shooting a 2.7x at f/8 gives the same DoF like f/11 on APS-C or f/16 on full frame - without the light loss!

Ask some professionals how often they shoot at f/2 on a full-frame. I did and the answer was: Only when the light is really low with the exception of some "conceptual shots".

Still, with this in mind I don't see why I should get something in-between a G11/P7000 and a DSLR, especially when I can't reasonably reuse my existing lenses with it.

0 upvotes
jackpro
By jackpro (Sep 10, 2011)

I choose F2 quite often actually with window light 85L 5DII
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dves/sets/72157627604978980/

0 upvotes
RedFox88
By RedFox88 (Sep 11, 2011)

Yes I would use a 2.7x crop factor EVIL camera in a heartbeat over a toy like the Pentax Q that has a common P&S image sensor size of 1/2.33"

0 upvotes
zxaar
By zxaar (Sep 11, 2011)

@Carsten Saager i use my 50mm F1.2 at f=1.2 pretty regularly. After all this is what the money was spent for. If someone buys fast lens and does not use it then he is not smart, it is simple as that. (This statement does not mean that one has to always use fastest aperture, but photog should use if he spent money on it).

3 upvotes
DioCanon
By DioCanon (Sep 11, 2011)

Carsten Saager
I can tell you dont have the Canon 50mm 1.2L!

1 upvote
goloby
By goloby (Sep 12, 2011)

actually f8 on 2.8x crop would be more like f22 on apsc and f32 on ff...
so f2 on 2.7x would be f5.6 on apsc and f8 on ff

0 upvotes
Photogaz
By Photogaz (Sep 10, 2011)

I personally think Canon has better lens options especially in the telephoto area. I can't imagine switching makes as hikenhi, you'll just switch back later.

0 upvotes
hikenhi
By hikenhi (Sep 10, 2011)

Ok guys, I'm not a Canon or Nikon Fan. I started off with a Canon, but lost interest in them when I experianced more downtime than shoot-time. As far as it goes for loyalty as towards a brand once you fall in love, I know all about that. It's silly to switch unless your needs switch once you've invested several thousands of dollars into a brand. As far as it goes for Nikon and there idea of mirror-less interchangable lens camera? hmm. Sony's new camera; loosing 30% of your light, having to wory about $$$ factory cleaning if anything gets permanently on the transparent glass, all for a few more or even two-fold max fps shoot rate? I've always been a fan of the sniper and not the AK-47 point'n'spray tactic which will leave you dry on a later important shot while your waiting for buffer to clear. If anything Nikon should implement image stablilization into their body and forget putting it in their select lenses. Nikon explain; 17-55 f2.8 no VR $1,540 vs 16-85 f3.5-5.6 w. VR $700

2 upvotes
Bart Hickman
By Bart Hickman (Sep 10, 2011)

Well yeah, you lose 30% of light with Sony's system. Or you lose 50% of light by going to 4/3 size sensor AND sacrifice 50% dynamic range (Sony still has the full DR of APS-C). To top it all off, it still works with regular APS-C lenses and they could still offer SLR's at the high end if they wanted. What's not to like? It would be cool if Nikon did something similar.

0 upvotes
Andy Crowe
By Andy Crowe (Sep 11, 2011)

^ You only "lose 30/50% of light" when using the same aperture. Given that, for example, micro four thirds lenses seem to test sharper at larger apertures than equivalent APS and full frame lenses you're not actually losing much because it's more practical to use wider apertures.

0 upvotes
Hugo600si
By Hugo600si (Sep 11, 2011)

Sony's NEX camera's loose no light and have APS-C sized sensors. The mirrorless Nikon would be competing with the NEX (7/5*/3), not the SLT's (a77, a65 etc).

0 upvotes
CFynn
By CFynn (Sep 11, 2011)

You don't loose any light with Sony's mirrorless system (NEX) - only with their SLT system.

0 upvotes
Martin Ocando
By Martin Ocando (Sep 10, 2011)

Canon and Nikon can relax and make their move when they see fit. If people switch makes, eventually that kind of people will switch back when Canon and Nikon comes with a breakthrough technology superior and more affordable. People have been doing this all the time, and the 90 percent (or more) of them don't buy anything else but the body and kit lens. We amateurs or advanced amateurs will keep getting our lens and accessories collection larger, and waiting for Canon and Nikon to make their move. Besides, cameras and sensors change, lenses remain.

3 upvotes
kkardster
By kkardster (Sep 12, 2011)

Canikon may catch up and surpass their mirrorless rivals, but not likely in the first iteration. I can't see them ever being more affordable.

0 upvotes
CFynn
By CFynn (Sep 13, 2011)

/"Canon and Nikon can relax and make their move when they see fit."/ Sounds like complacency.
European camera makers who once dominated the market probably thought the same thing when the Japanese started making cameras - but they have now either disappeared or are confined to niche markets.

0 upvotes
rocklobster
By rocklobster (Sep 10, 2011)

Now all we need to complete the picture i.e. shake off the last mechanical hiderence (noise, limited working life) is to get rid of the focal-plane shutter. Yes , I know that the Fuji X100 has a leaf shutter in the lens which is better in a number of ways but an electronic solution should be possible shouldn't it? Some expert knowledge required here to confirm that it is technically feasible.

Cheers

1 upvote
Bob Meyer
By Bob Meyer (Sep 11, 2011)

Lear shutters are great if you're willing to accept a fastest shutter speed of 1/500th or so. And, of course, you need to pay for a shutter with every lens. FP shutters offer much more versatility and higher performance.

Electronic shutters are currently worse in terms of shutter speed. Take a look at a single frame from a digital video camera to see what I mean. You're limited to about 1/60th second as the fastest shutter speed. Not too practical for still photography.

Some day, maybe, but not any time soon.

0 upvotes
MattN
By MattN (Sep 11, 2011)

I'm pretty sure that is false. I thought that shutter of over 1/1000th used an electronic mechanisms to keep costs down. For example, in the Nikom D70, you could go as high as 1/4000th (which sadly dropped down to 1/2000th for the D90 I replaced it with). Some folks have said yu get artifacts with high shutter on D70, but ai didn't ever notice them. Matt

0 upvotes
MattN
By MattN (Sep 11, 2011)

EDit: Sorry, that should say 1/8000th for D70 and 1/4000th for D90. I am certain that the focal plane shutters in either cameras are not that quick

0 upvotes
CFynn
By CFynn (Sep 11, 2011)

Focal plane shutters are actually not that quick- they are just as fast as what the flash sync speed is and then just narrow the gap between the two curtains to achieve higher effective speed. My Nikon FM3a also goes up to 1/4000 but the real (flash sync) shutter speed is only1/250.

0 upvotes
Simon97
By Simon97 (Sep 10, 2011)

Canon and Nikon aren't dumb. They can afford to sit back and watch the market on a new system to see its success or failure. With the huge customer base of these systems, the name alone will sell lots of these cameras if and when they produce them. Smart business if you ask me.

2 upvotes
Fraxinus excelsior
By Fraxinus excelsior (Sep 10, 2011)

Canon was the first to launch cheap DSLR's and they won the market! Now Sony will win the market since they are first.
Canon and Nikon snobbery.

0 upvotes
AnHund
By AnHund (Sep 10, 2011)

Canon has the best pocket cameras and Nikon has the best DSLRs. Period :-)

2 upvotes
MaikeruN
By MaikeruN (Sep 11, 2011)

No, Oly was the first to introduce the mirrorless into the market not Sony

0 upvotes
DioCanon
By DioCanon (Sep 11, 2011)

Canon Lenses are better and best line up.
Nikon, actually Sony sensor are better.

1 upvote
love_them_all
By love_them_all (Sep 10, 2011)

Canikon missed the opportunity to launch a new APS-c ml system before Sony and samsung. If they are serious on this market they should offer a least an FF ver for m lenses owners. The beauty of ml is the mount loyalty can be cross platform. I'm a nex owner but would not need to think twice to get a FF ml body if it is under $2-2.5k, depending on features. On the other hand if they are going to go small they should consider a 4x crop or so, laying the grounds for a format with super reach.

1 upvote
Lucas_
By Lucas_ (Sep 10, 2011)

IMHO if Canikon wants to face Sony on mirroeless they must launch APS-C ( or maybe 4/3 ) sensor cameras, anything less would fall in a lower IQ category, almost like a P&S.

3 upvotes
shigzeo ?
By shigzeo ? (Sep 10, 2011)

Agreed. APS-C is a wonderful format because many wide angle lenses exist to enjoy. A shallow distance to the sensor would allow the use of any lens.

I would love to stay with Nikon, but I'm sick of hauling around the kitchen sink whilst hiking/bicycling.

If Nikon's mirror less cameras are toys with dinky sensors and proprietary mounts and lenses, I'll embrace NEX.

0 upvotes
nachos
By nachos (Sep 10, 2011)

It makes the most practical sense to use an APS-C sensor and put it right up against the lens flange to keep the shape compact.

One reason I see that canikon would wait and see is that removing the mirror box and putting the sensor close to the lens flange requires a redesign of lenses - so they would be introducing a third lens line in addition to DX and regular 35mm. I bet on launch there is a small zoom and a pancake wide angle available.

I have an NEX-5 with a nikon adapter and all the adapter is (besides providing an F-mount) is a tube that is the same size as a Nikon mirror box, providing the necessary gap to allow full focus to infinity.

0 upvotes
RedFox88
By RedFox88 (Sep 11, 2011)

Samsung is not a name buyers will associate with cameras. They are trying hard to enter the game but lack of market history will keep Samsung at the bottom of the list. Buying a $200 P&S by Samsung is different than buying an EVIL camera with lenses for $800+. There are tons of Canon cameras and lenses, a history and commitment whereas Samsung doesn't have that lineage.

0 upvotes
RedFox88
By RedFox88 (Sep 11, 2011)

shigzeo: nex's bigger image sensor means bigger, heavier lenses for your hiking trips than a 2.7x nikon EVIL camera. ;)

0 upvotes
MaikeruN
By MaikeruN (Sep 11, 2011)

If anyone did make an FF ML camera it wouldnt be priced at under $2.5k. Stop dreaming.

0 upvotes
aris14
By aris14 (Sep 9, 2011)

I don't know if it is for lough or tears when you see the dinosaurs of an industry to follow each other or minor competitors after making serious announcements of their non interest on something the other part launched.
No matter if they did it for pure business purpose, always profitable I presume, they lose face among their fans and clients.
It is sad indeed when the little fish adopt the usual procedure of the big fish when they become big.
Principles of market someone will say... I see that...
But when the big boys follow, at least they have to follow producing something outstanding, for the same principles...

0 upvotes
Patman888
By Patman888 (Sep 9, 2011)

A good example of why the M43 and NEX fanboys are deluded to think that Canikon is losing market share by not jumping into mirrorless right away. They simply do not need to. Just a mere rumor about a mirrorless Nikon raised their stocks.

Just imagine how badly a mirrorless D5100, regardless of lens size or body size, would outsell all current mirrorless cameras. A mirrorless rebel? It would win in sales in North America by a long shot regardless of the quality of the camera.

1 upvote
Fazal Majid
By Fazal Majid (Sep 10, 2011)

According to the story, mirrorless represents 40% of interchangeable lens cameras in Japan, about half of that NEX, the rest presumably m43. Canon and Nikon probably have 30% market share each, which means the NEX propelled Sony to parity with Canon and Nikon (20% NEX and 8% or so A-mount).
I'm no m43 or NEX fanboy (I lean more towards Leica and Fuji X100, even though I own a 5Dmkii), but the writing is clearly on the wall and Canon and Nikon both risk paying a very steep price for their complacency. If Nikon's mirrorless system has a 2.5x multiplier, it won't be competitive with m43, let alone NEX or NX, and that would be a fatal blunder, just like Pentax' Q. As for Canon, they haven't introduced a model worth mentioning since the 5DmkII (or possibly the 7D). They could pull a surprise out of their hat, but given their previous denials, this seems unlikely.

4 upvotes
bluevellet
By bluevellet (Sep 10, 2011)

NEX only has about a third of the Japanese mirrorless market at best. Olympus alone sells more types of these cameras than Sony does. If you add Panasonic (which isn't far behind) than you can see how m43 as a whole is bigger over there.

That goes a long way to explain why no third-party (in Japan/Asia) has tried to release lenses on NEX as of yet, despite a very obvious need/demand from NEX owners.

1 upvote
MichaelKJ
By MichaelKJ (Sep 10, 2011)

The market share data are only # of units sold. The vast majority of mirrorless sales are for cameras in the $400-$600 range (many models have been heavily discounted). The average DSLR sells for quite a bit more. Nikon's and Canon's imaging division were profitable for the most recent fiscal year, while Olympus had a 25% decrease in sales revenue.

0 upvotes
aarif
By aarif (Sep 9, 2011)

A mirrorless FF with a tweaked D3s sensor and a reliable AF system would be great news for me, not the 2.7 crop

3 upvotes
joyclick
By joyclick (Sep 10, 2011)

You said it,really said it!

0 upvotes
Neodp
By Neodp (Sep 10, 2011)

Now your talkin'! Leap frog, the APC, and go FF. Mate that with a stellar, f/1.8, or better, normal prime! All in a total package, smaller than the D5100, and it's a done deal! Priced at no more than $500 to start; for the body. They'll sale so many, the price will go down, and their profit, will skyrocket! It must be a well feature balance camera system, however. No wobbly video, without control, etc.... It can use the real (optional manual speed) focus ring, as ISO, and WB adjustment too. It will have a real (snap fast, for manual option) aperture wheel, and distance readout. Adapters will be available, for other lens types. Any limits to telephoto size, will not be much of an issue, because you can crop out, better than a smaller sensor could manage, given real world lighting conditions. A wide prime, will shine as well. Like the wide primes, on FF cams now. There would be a 27mm f/1.8 or so, very affordable, and small lens, and there would be optional extreme wide primes.

1 upvote
Bob Meyer
By Bob Meyer (Sep 11, 2011)

"Now your talkin'! Leap frog, the APC, and go FF. Mate that with a stellar, f/1.8, or better, normal prime! All in a total package, smaller than the D5100, and it's a done deal!* Priced at no more than $500 to start*; for the body. They'll sale so many, the price will go down, and their profit, will skyrocket! "

HA Ha ha ha ha. Nikon's apparently pricing the 2.7x mirrorless at twice that price. A FF sensor alone probably costs close to $500 to manufacture.

0 upvotes
nachos
By nachos (Sep 11, 2011)

35mm chip costs ~20 times an APS-C sensor to produce. The yields are far lower because wafer defects increase with the square of the area. There are also more processing steps in the photolithography stage of production. Replacement cost if you damage one is on the order of $1500 typically, so the part price is likely around $1200.

0 upvotes
goloby
By goloby (Sep 9, 2011)

I sure hope that the rumor of the 2.7x sensor crop is a bad joke. I'm waiting for a FF mirrorless, not a compact with interchangeable lenses.
Do you even get any DOF with that small sensor???

As for Sony's lack of lenses, that is a non issue, those cameras work brilliantly with any lenses trough adapters

0 upvotes
saklitzk
By saklitzk (Sep 9, 2011)

With small senors you get lots of DOF, what you want is lack of DOF

6 upvotes
MichaelKJ
By MichaelKJ (Sep 10, 2011)

A FF mirrorless would still require the same size lenses as current FF DSLRs. Thus, the weight difference would be negligible.

0 upvotes
shigzeo ?
By shigzeo ? (Sep 10, 2011)

MichaelKJ

Not necessarily. If the mount remains deep like Nikon's F-mount, then yes, the lenses would have to remain big and the body unwieldy. But Nikon could make a shallow depth, allowing adapters for small M43, Contax, and even Nikon S lenses.

SLR lenses are big, and AF lenses are huge. But normal AiS style lenses are generally much much smaller, many to the tune of 1/3-1/2 the weight of their AF counterparts.

0 upvotes
RedFox88
By RedFox88 (Sep 11, 2011)

Not gonna happen. 35mm digital is a niche` market and Leica's M9 might be your best bet for something close to a 35mm EVIL camera.

0 upvotes
RedFox88
By RedFox88 (Sep 11, 2011)

saklizk: that is your preference. Many that what a higher end camera (than a P&S) but not something big don't necessarily want shallow DOF. They want to take fast photos of their family and kids that are in focus and not miss the moment because of shallow DOF!

0 upvotes
Bob Meyer
By Bob Meyer (Sep 11, 2011)

"Not necessarily. If the mount remains deep like Nikon's F-mount, then yes, the lenses would have to remain big and the body unwieldy. But Nikon could make a shallow depth, allowing adapters for small M43, Contax, and even Nikon S lenses. "

You could only have adapters for m43 lenses if you didn't care about covering the full frame. And what's the point of having such a large body (compared to existing m43 bodies) if you're still only using a 4/3rds size portion of the sensor?

0 upvotes
CFynn
By CFynn (Sep 11, 2011)

@MichaelKJ
Leica is already a full frame mirrorless camera - and the M mount lenses for that system are considerably smaller than equivalent full frame DSLR lenses.

If Nikon made a full frame mirrorless camera they could revive their old S mount

0 upvotes
Daniel Browning
By Daniel Browning (Sep 9, 2011)

Daniel Browning comments on DPreview's comments about Nikon's comment regarding the comments in "some news article."

Daniel Browning understands that DPReview knows that Nikon is aware that some news article appeared in the media.

Please note that Daniel Browning has made no announcement about the fact that DPReview has made no announcement regarding the lack of Nikon's announcement of its imaging product [sic].

5 upvotes
Richard Butler
By Richard Butler (Sep 9, 2011)

Dpreview contributor Daniel Browning commented on a dpreview news story. In a satirical post, he parodied dpreview's traditional news style of reporting the events, rather than offering opinion. The comment was read by a dpreview writer who is said to have been seen to smile wryly. That writer was not available for comment.

17 upvotes
Leon T
By Leon T (Sep 9, 2011)

Mirrorless and CDAF seem to be the big thing in Japan....personally I love EVF's for the live histogram, but nothing is better than OVF when you need the shot.

I think mirrorless will assume the stature in the marketplace of P&S if C&N stop with the MP race and concentrate on DSLR innovation.

0 upvotes
schaki
By schaki (Sep 10, 2011)

"I think mirrorless will assume the stature in the marketplace of P&S if C&N stop with the MP race and concentrate on DSLR innovation."

Better say that to Sony instead, which makes most sensors ;)

0 upvotes
dylanbarnhart
By dylanbarnhart (Sep 9, 2011)

I'm surprised dpreview is starting to post rumors. If Nikon mirrorless are really coming, dpreview probably got samples from Nikon already. Don't these samples come with non-disclosure agreements? Or perhaps news bits like these don't violate the rule.

Anyways, I like it :-) Keep the rumors coming guys :-)

1 upvote
tkbslc
By tkbslc (Sep 9, 2011)

The share prices actually rose in price today. That's news, not a rumor.

1 upvote
Richard Butler
By Richard Butler (Sep 9, 2011)

As tkbslc says: the share price did rise. One of the world's foremost financial newspapers suggested something is coming. Both of these are demonstrable facts.

3 upvotes
RedFox88
By RedFox88 (Sep 11, 2011)

No, they posted a news item about Nikon making a press release saying they haven't announced anything!

0 upvotes
Tee1up
By Tee1up (Sep 9, 2011)

I still live in a fantasy world where Nikon will some day make a retrofit 24 MP sensor back for my F3Hp. Still the best camera I have ever owned.

0 upvotes
Klay
By Klay (Sep 10, 2011)

I'm holding onto my Contax G1 in case they make a surprise comeback.

0 upvotes
shigzeo ?
By shigzeo ? (Sep 10, 2011)

While the F3 is a great camera, it is just slightly too large for my uses. I, too, am waiting for Nikon to come to their senses and release SLR's that mimic the size of pre-digital SLR's, ditching the weight and bulk of today's behemoths.

0 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Sep 10, 2011)

the f3 is the best cam ever made! :)
next to the d700

a detachable prism would be cool in the d800/d4 and a monitor in the mirror, so that when the mirror flaps up you can see the monitor through the groundglass for menues, or have a hud like the x100 :)

0 upvotes
IcyVeins
By IcyVeins (Sep 9, 2011)

Why anyone would pay that much for a 2.7x crop is beyond me. There are so many better options. Nikon is going to find that its brand won't have nearly as much power in the mirrorless market.

2 upvotes
tkbslc
By tkbslc (Sep 9, 2011)

People are making a lot of assumptions based on zero credible information

8 upvotes
CUclimber
By CUclimber (Sep 9, 2011)

It is stupefying that someone could say that there are "many better options" than a camera that doesn't officially exist.

7 upvotes
Andy Crowe
By Andy Crowe (Sep 9, 2011)

If they can make a 2.7x crop sensor with the same image quality as m4/3 and smaller / faster lenses they may be on to something.

Certainly better than Pentax's 1/2.3" (5.6x crop) sensor

0 upvotes
goloby
By goloby (Sep 9, 2011)

Pentax is hammering nails into it's own coffin

2 upvotes
Greynerd
By Greynerd (Sep 14, 2011)

Are you sure the price is not this much. Then of course it could be much more or less than this much or that much.

0 upvotes
Jogger
By Jogger (Sep 9, 2011)

fail. you can get a Sony NEX 5N body for $600.. best non-FF sensor on the market.

0 upvotes
Andrew Booth
By Andrew Booth (Sep 9, 2011)

Yes, but the Sony lenses are terrible.

Nikon glass will (hopefully) be worth the extra money.

1 upvote
tkbslc
By tkbslc (Sep 9, 2011)

Ha Ha! Fail? Based on the rumored price of a rumored camera we know nothing about?

7 upvotes
Lukino
By Lukino (Sep 9, 2011)

oh no I just realized I cannot afford cameras that doesn't exists too.

2 upvotes
roweraay
By roweraay (Sep 9, 2011)

The Sony NEX 5N is available for purchase, as we speak. What rumor are we talking about ?

1 upvote
spacepolice
By spacepolice (Sep 9, 2011)

Surely they could have made some slight changes and gone with a 2.5x crop factor? Mentally multiplying and dividing by 2.7x makes my head hurt!

1 upvote
Andy Crowe
By Andy Crowe (Sep 9, 2011)

^ Why is that any worse than Canon's 1.3x / 1.6x ?

0 upvotes
Absolutic
By Absolutic (Sep 9, 2011)

C'mon everyone in the world knows they are announcing two mirrorless cameras within next couple weeks. Nikonrumors already has all the specs, the specs for all lenses, old news. Seriously, anyone is still doubting it?

0 upvotes
RedFox88
By RedFox88 (Sep 11, 2011)

No need to do math. If you look at the lenses they are designed to give a roughly traditional FOV: 28-80; 28mm; 28-280; 80-300.No need to multiply, just use the lenses.

0 upvotes
Total comments: 115