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Fujifilm plans X10 firmware in response to 'white disc' concerns

By dpreview staff on Dec 7, 2011 at 03:10 GMT

Fujifilm has said it will attempt to address the problem of X10 images showing 'white discs' with a firmware update in response to customer concerns. The company statement comes in response to our enquiries about the problem, and confirms the phenomenon is caused by sensor 'blooming.' It claims the camera is working within prescribed tolerances and that the problem is not uncommon in other cameras but says that it plans updated firmware to 'lessen the effects' of the blooming. We have prepared a quick test of the issue (which we will cover in greater depth in the full review), showing the effects of Fujifilm's suggested ways of mitigating the issue.

Update: We have published a report on the effect of firmware v.1.03 on the orbs issue (Feb 25th 2012)  

Company statement:

'Fujifilm engineers have examined a number of sample shots and have concluded that the camera is working within prescribed tolerances. The blooming issue is something not uncommon to many types of digital camera. It is possible to reduce the effects of blooming either by increasing the ISO or widening the dynamic range on the camera.

However, after receiving a number of comments from users, we can understand their concern and plan a firmware upgrade to lessen the effects of blooming. We will announce in due course when the upgrade will be available.'

White Disc blooming tests:

Here we compare the rendering of specular highlights between the FujiFilm X10 (left) and the Olympus XZ-1, which has a slightly smaller sensor based on CCD technology. All the images below are 100% crops, shot at equivalent focal lengths, using the same shutter speed, ISO and aperture.

Fujifilm X10, 12MP, ISO 100, DR 100% Olympus XZ-1, 10MP, ISO 100

ISO Test

In accordance with Fujifilms suggestion, we shot the scene at different ISO settings.

ISO 100, DR 100%, 12MP ISO 200, DR 100%, 12MP
ISO 400, DR 100%, 12MP ISO 800, DR 100%, 12MP

No significant further improvement was seen above ISO 800.

DR Test

We also shot the scene using the camera's EXR DR mode, which under-exposes half its pixels and then combines these with the fully-exposed neighboring pixels to produce a 6MP image with greater highlight retention.

ISO 100, DR 100%, 6MP ISO 100, DR 200%, 6MP
ISO 100, DR 400%, 6MP

We will investigate the problem (and how prevalent it is in real-world photographs) in more depth in our full review. We will also test any updated firmware that becomes available.

Comments

Total comments: 219
12
andrewD2
By andrewD2 (Dec 7, 2011)

Picked up a X10 at the fuji stand at a calumet autumn open day. Took one shot and it locked up, couldn't even turn it off. If this was 10 years ago or a budget camera I could have understood but the least you expect now is a camera that works and has no obvious imaging flaws.

1 upvote
Geekapoo
By Geekapoo (Dec 7, 2011)

There have been some complaints about power problems (on/off) that seem to be more than just getting familiar with the novel mechanism (use of lens to power on/off). Assume it's not widespread or we would hear more about it....still, a problem is a problem...and that one is a biggie...lets see how frequent it will be.

1 upvote
SerKol
By SerKol (Dec 7, 2011)

I have a X10 and it does not have any problems with power on/off

Comment edited 18 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
andrewD2
By andrewD2 (Dec 7, 2011)

The camera was showing an image and didn't respond to any button presses including turning off via lens switch.

0 upvotes
techmine
By techmine (Dec 7, 2011)

Please format your card. I had a similar issue with the first power on and was fixed with formatting the card.

0 upvotes
ThorKre
By ThorKre (Dec 7, 2011)

Oh boy, I am so glad I did not buy this failure of a camera and bought an EX1 instead. Fuji could have hit a homerun with the x10, it's a dream camera on paper, but you just cannot release an expensive premium compact with horrible qc and a poorly designed sensor and expect people to be okay with it.

Even if they release an updated model, who would be stupid enough to buy it? Horrible marketing.

1 upvote
photofan1986
By photofan1986 (Dec 7, 2011)

Come on! The only failure here is your comment. The camera has a flaw, ok, and then? Otherwise, it's an excellent camera. It has much better control, noise handling, dynamic range, lens....than your EX1.

10 upvotes
whtchocla7e
By whtchocla7e (Dec 7, 2011)

Will Fuji ever release a product without significant flaws?

7 upvotes
Rmano
By Rmano (Dec 7, 2011)

Given the recent ...success stories with Fuji firmware writer, they should go the way of open firmware. At least people could correct the camera "features". (And I am quite sure that this have to be a software problem. Too much circular circles, to be an hw one)

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Dec 14, 2011)

Many good folks are already working hard on cracking the Fujifilm cameras. Patches are next after that.

http://www.personal-view.com

0 upvotes
Geekapoo
By Geekapoo (Dec 7, 2011)

Wow....buy a "low light" camera and either bump up the ISO or reduce the MP capture to avoid the dreaded WBS. What a concept! Nice wording from Fuji about the firmware update (could be a hardware issue (I am reading between the lines here) but regardless, we expect a firmware update that will lessen the effect!). WOn't be a happy holiday at Fuji digital. I passed on the x10 and bought a different camera. Talked to folks at my local camera store who said they had some customers who while interestedin the x10, bought another camera because of WBS. Timing is everything and Fuji loses big time with this holiday story. Too bad as the company is quite innovative. How could they have missed WBS during QC?????

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
3 upvotes
Richard Murdey
By Richard Murdey (Dec 7, 2011)

I could get interesting vertical white oblongs taking photos of the sun with my Nikon D40. Was never a problem unless you tried to do stupid things like that though.

I put it down to the electronic shutter.

0 upvotes
Apewithacamera
By Apewithacamera (Dec 7, 2011)

Should have bought a Nikon! lol

1 upvote
Catalin Stavaru
By Catalin Stavaru (Dec 7, 2011)

It would have been nice if you would also address the NEX-5n video clicking issue in your review...just like you are doing with the Fuji issue.

2 upvotes
Najinsky
By Najinsky (Dec 7, 2011)

I'm happy for X10 users that this issue is being acknowledged and a promise made to address it, but it actually serves to make me annoyed that they still haven't made a statement for X100 users regarding the malfunctioning Aperture.

Some people have had as many as three repairs of their X100, and until a statement is made that the problem is understood, fixed, and that any repairs will ABSOLUTELY be guaranteed to use new assemblies that are free of the flaw, using this camera feels like a ticking time bomb waiting to strike when least convenient. There is little point sending it away for repair if it's simply going to be replaced with another flawed assembly.

1 upvote
snake_b
By snake_b (Dec 7, 2011)

I guess that 2/3 sensor had little to no affect over the 1 1/7 after all.

0 upvotes
zodiacfml
By zodiacfml (Dec 7, 2011)

oh no. one of the cams i'm eyeing. does the x100 have this too?

0 upvotes
brkl
By brkl (Dec 7, 2011)

Nope.

0 upvotes
tinpusher
By tinpusher (Dec 7, 2011)

The X100 has sticky aperture blades instead.
You need to do a lot of homework before buying a Fuji

0 upvotes
_P
By _P (Dec 7, 2011)

For those who don't like browsing all comments from the begging. This really looks terrible:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/minami/6301640383/sizes/o/in/photostream/

3 upvotes
snake_b
By snake_b (Dec 7, 2011)

Jeez. That's horrid.

0 upvotes
balios
By balios (Dec 7, 2011)

Wow. If that's with Fuji's "prescribed tolerances" then they've designed a pretty horrible sensor.

0 upvotes
viking79
By viking79 (Dec 7, 2011)

That is really bad. I was trying to research what the white orbs were, and went to the fuji forum and it was terrible. Every other thread was about them, but they were all pranksters making jokes about their "white orbs" instead of actually discussing the issue.

This photo shows me exactly what I wanted to see. Thank you.

0 upvotes
DuncanDovovan
By DuncanDovovan (Feb 18, 2012)

OMG. That is a disaster. How can they fix that with the FW? It looks like a sensor issue where light is spreading to adjacent pixels?

Would not be surprised if there will be a big and expensive recall...

0 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Dec 7, 2011)

iam sooooo glad i sold the x100 weeks ago :)

good luck fellows, i guess fujifilm will for sure bring out supernice firmwareupdates on a daily basis hehehe

0 upvotes
Threlly
By Threlly (Dec 7, 2011)

Why did you sell your X100 when the problem is with the X10 ?
Was your X100 blooming ?

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
7 upvotes
Kametori
By Kametori (Dec 7, 2011)

Sold X100 ??
I just bought one ;-)

0 upvotes
tinpusher
By tinpusher (Dec 7, 2011)

The worst examples of the white disk are when the sun reflects from a shiny surface.

In the examples above the edges are not as sharp as they can be and the disks are not accompanied by a star effect when surrounded by other colours in daylight.
DPReview is showing the disks in the best possible light!

The choice of the XZ-1 for comparison is interesting but I'd have preferred something with a similar sensor and similar size.

Weasel words from Fuji ( but probably to satisfy the lawyers )

1 upvote
noss
By noss (Dec 7, 2011)

...and using with polar filter?

0 upvotes
ingo lang
By ingo lang (Dec 7, 2011)

From the article: "Here we compare the rendering of specular highlights between the FujiFilm X10 (left) and the Olympus XZ-1, which has a slightly smaller CMOS sensor."

The Olympus XZ-1 has a CCD, like most of the 10MP premium compact cameras - not a CMOS!

rgds

1 upvote
Pangloss
By Pangloss (Dec 7, 2011)

That is correct, the Ricoh GRDIII/IV, the Canon G12, the Panasonic LX5, and the Nikon 7000/7100 all use a 10MP CCD sensor. The Canon S100 on the other hand uses a new 1/1.7" 12MP CMOS sensor developed by Canon.

0 upvotes
Richard Butler
By Richard Butler (Dec 7, 2011)

Too much writing about the multi-aspect CMOS in the GH2, just before writing about the LX5/XZ-1 sensor. Sorry about that.

0 upvotes
Lordolin
By Lordolin (Dec 7, 2011)

Same here, I took about 100 shots with the X10 and hat no blooming issues.
I might have to wait until summer next year to discover them....
I had more fun with the X10 over the last 2 weeks than I had with
my E-PL2 the last 9 months, it is simply a joy to use. Well, the autofocus could
be better for dark areas but it is still fine.

1 upvote
Shomari
By Shomari (Dec 9, 2011)

I agree with you 100%. Although I love my EPL-2, I am truly enjoying the versatility, photo quality and the size and handling of my X10. I think Fuji should indeed correct any problems with this camera but I for one will not bother with a update. Fortunately my X10 works great. BTW I am using Oly photo editing softwear to work with my Fuji pics. Love it.

Regards,

0 upvotes
Rachotilko
By Rachotilko (Dec 7, 2011)

I think Fuji is scared to death now, judging by this cowardish response. They bid too high a stake on this sensor, considering the failure of X-S1 (with its advanced&expensive lenses) would be much more costly for the company.

Its hard not to have sympathy with Fuji's effort in fulfilling customers wishes despite the trends. On the other hand, the timing of the steps was chosen as if the maximizing (as opposed to the minimising) the possible damage was driving the product introduction schedule.

Their response bears with itself an unambiguous message:

1, the sensor flaw cannot be fixed by firmware
2, X-S1 (admittably a wonderful concept in itself) is in deep trouble.

Comment edited 36 seconds after posting
1 upvote
HDaRt
By HDaRt (Dec 7, 2011)

whatever.

1 upvote
Northgrove
By Northgrove (Dec 7, 2011)

So what you're saying is that since Fuji provides support for a supposedly common issue with the recently released X10, X-S1 is in deep trouble?

0 upvotes
Rachotilko
By Rachotilko (Dec 7, 2011)

@Northgrove:

No, my reasoning is completely different:

- Fuji denies X10 sensor's flaw: contrary to Fuji's claims, no other current camera model produces remotely comparable artifacts.

- that implies that Fuji can't fix it. Otherways they would not deny the flaw's existence in the first place. By fixing it I mean making sensor behave similarly to other cameras in the high contrast situations. Fuji's "fix" will most likely be done by blurring the white circle's boundary few pixels wide (i.e. the circle's radius would remain intact). Not satisying IMHO.

- that implies X-S1 is in deep trouble, because it shares the same unfixably flawed sensor.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 1 minute after posting
1 upvote
frosti7
By frosti7 (Dec 7, 2011)

X-S1 is a fixed-lens camera, it wont be much more expensive then X10

0 upvotes
Rachotilko
By Rachotilko (Dec 7, 2011)

@frosti7: yes, I know. I meant expensive in term of the company's inverstment into R&D of the advanced lens X-S1 would posses.

As you might know, X-S1 is supposed to be armed with quite an advanced lens, and Fuji took pride in it by (unusually) giving out some technical details about the lens internals.

0 upvotes
misterpepper
By misterpepper (Dec 7, 2011)

Fuji has been hittin git out of the park lately with the X100, X10 and soon the X-S1. If it wasn't for the WBS the X10 would be a near perfect product (and still is). Fuji has been very good to fix the sticky apertures of affected X100's, and, while a little slow, have released some very beneficial firmware updates for it and will be for the X10 soon as well. If you look back at where Fuji was as a company just 18 months ago, today they are light years ahead.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Dec 10, 2011)

Fujifilm needs to slow-down and stop releasing cameras for field-testing by the buyers themselves. Some companies release their products way too prematurely. Maybe to have them available for the holiday season. Fortunately, many others do not.

The X-S1 will be more expensive than the X10 is, won't it? Yes, it will have an amazing lens on it.... but the 2/3rd-inch sensor will be identical to what is in the X10.

So, unless Fujifilm will swap-out the sensor from the X-S1 and replace it with a different 2/3-rd-inch imager, one might as well wait for the X20 and X-S2 models.

0 upvotes
fmuell
By fmuell (Dec 7, 2011)

I took a photo in tele with the optical viewfinder and what I saw in the optical viewfinder was not the same crop (?) that was on the photo on the lcd-screen...
So taking Photos in tele with the optical viewfinder does not make sense, or does it?

1 upvote
wetsleet
By wetsleet (Dec 7, 2011)

the viewfinder only claims to show 85% of the scene. That is to say, it is a tighter crop than is actually captured. If you want an optical viewfinder giving near 100% accuracy then you need to understand that is one of the reasons SLR's were invented.

5 upvotes
sharkfeeder
By sharkfeeder (Dec 9, 2011)

And if you use the optional (and unnecessary) lens hood you'll see even less than that in the viewfinder since it blocks about a quarter of the view!

0 upvotes
Van du Nord
By Van du Nord (Dec 7, 2011)

if Fuji prepares a new firmware, they could also improve the ISO setting, so that the setting stays valid for all menus.
Hopely they take users and dpreview comments into account in order to make a perfect small camera

0 upvotes
MarinoDiMare
By MarinoDiMare (Dec 7, 2011)

Is this an issue that affects all copies, or only some?

0 upvotes
CameraLabTester
By CameraLabTester (Dec 7, 2011)

Perhaps some "REAL LIFE" examples would be better rather than tests on a darkened room.

The example given by John Carson a few comments below shows a "REAL WORLD" example.

There are orbs all over the place, not only on the car's windshield, but on the glass balls and other reflections.

Sorry, but this is NOT within prescribed tolerances, Mr Fuji lab rats, BUT a SERIOUS flaw.

It would be INCREDIBLY very hard indeed to "PHOTOSHOP" that white disk from the car!

2 upvotes
jaeaetee
By jaeaetee (Dec 7, 2011)

Uh-oh, seems that there's no change in fuji's products then.. they have always had great ideas etc, but the end products haven't been really finished well. Especially the software / UI side, but it seems that now the mechanics/electronics too.

Too quick design, too fast! I hope fuji takes more time to finish the ILC they're coming up with.

0 upvotes
Photohobbyfun
By Photohobbyfun (Dec 7, 2011)

Is there a schedule for when to expect the full review?

0 upvotes
Barney Britton
By Barney Britton (Dec 7, 2011)

I'm currently working on a roundup of raw-shooting compact cameras (which contains a lot of original work on the X10) and I'll be expanding this into a full review in the new year.

1 upvote
Raist3d
By Raist3d (Dec 7, 2011)

@Barney- is the Pentax Q included by any chance? Thanks in advance.

0 upvotes
sedentary_male
By sedentary_male (Dec 7, 2011)

and the Ricoh GRDIV

0 upvotes
wetsleet
By wetsleet (Dec 7, 2011)

@Barney
So we have to wait for a comparitive review to learn anything about the X10? Surely this camera deserves a stand-alone review. By all means compile that into a comparitive review in due course.

2 upvotes
Dimitris Servis
By Dimitris Servis (Dec 7, 2011)

You do realize the failure of releasing reviews after Xmas...

0 upvotes
johnnymac43
By johnnymac43 (Dec 7, 2011)

I am having focusing issues as well, this camera doesn't focus as good as my Canon S90. For the most part it is great but not as good as the Canon. Anyone else with a focusing problems?

0 upvotes
Jninh77
By Jninh77 (Dec 7, 2011)

I had dust on my sensor and AF problems at full tele end. I exchanged it and new one focused much better and not dust. THe bloom problems definitely degraded my shots where I captured a ray of light in the woods. However, still love the DR on the camera and nice fill flash. Handles like a champ.

0 upvotes
xeriwthe
By xeriwthe (Dec 7, 2011)

i find i need to make sure that the area i am targeting for AF has a few edges and isn't too bright or dark. it will fail consistently otherwise, isn't quite as easy to operate as my nikon p300

0 upvotes
Oelph
By Oelph (Dec 7, 2011)

I've found the focussing on the X10 to be the best amongst compacts and rivals the older M43 cameras. I previously had a Canon S95, LX5, Nex-5 and GH1.

0 upvotes
OneGuy
By OneGuy (Dec 7, 2011)

Once burned, twice cautious. This time I did not jump on the hype from Fuji marketing or take for granted dp review team's comments or agreed with many of the dpr members.
In the Preview, the dpr comment on the X10 viewfinder was "glass, high quality." One (Amazon) user describes the X10 OVF as very poor, as it did not match the picture.
Shifting to X100, one user could not focus in AF or MF claiming only static things can be focused on -- like trees and mountains because the feedback is nonexistent (AF) or it takes too much (be)fuddle in MF.
Also, the dp review team devoted a whole page to Fuji EXR "technology" but if you look at all EXR compacts other than F200EXR (which is not in the lineup), the EXR pictures come out the worst of all cameras in the dpr standard studio scene.
Poor AF quickly limits the use of any camera and I like to go beyond "da brand." In the store I was much impressed with Casio Exilim EX-ZR200 -- its AF very fast when pointed at any spot.
Running out of cha

1 upvote
SLRist
By SLRist (Dec 8, 2011)

Much ado about nothing. This kind of rubbish accompanies every release of every new camera. I've seen photos showing this blooming, and it's only visible when pixel peeping. You'll never see it in a printed photo. This is yet another case of complete over-reaction. Those people who are about to return their cameras be honest - did you actually notice the problem before you read about it in the Internet? I guarantee you did not.

0 upvotes
healer81
By healer81 (Dec 7, 2011)

Im happy with mine so far... the pictures i took seem to not have this problem. Thats probably because I didnt shoot into very bright objects...

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Dec 10, 2011)

Problem seems to be, all you really need is a bright light (like the Sun) off-camera, and something within the frame reflecting that light. Instant orb!

0 upvotes
skimble
By skimble (Dec 7, 2011)

I give them credit for trying but will stay pessimistic till I see the outcome.
They make such a great camera and lose so many points because of bad QC,
its not just white discs it is also lose OFV, dust in the lens and on the sensors.
I bought it for my upcoming holiday now I can't even return it to be repaired.
They than will try to tell me that it is my fault for sure (needs to be seen) but would not surprise me. Many people have complaint about this things.
I'm not disappointed with Fuji but I want these things to be fixed with no excuses.
I actually have not experienced this WDS in my normal day by day shooting but I saw it from many other posters.
For sure I will be the last one uploading the firmware update :-)
Great camera make sure it stays that way Fuji ;-)

1 upvote
John Carson
By John Carson (Dec 7, 2011)

If you want to see a really spectacular example, look at the orb on the windscreen of the car in the center of the shot here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/minami/6301640383/sizes/l/in/photostream/

(the full-size version is best).

7 upvotes
Noirist
By Noirist (Dec 7, 2011)

Ouch. That's a real problem.

0 upvotes
Fujifilm Finepix F30
By Fujifilm Finepix F30 (Dec 7, 2011)

And Fuji claims this is 'not uncommon' in other cameras and that 'the camera is working within prescribed tolerances' ... and that a quick solution is 'increasing the ISO' so that high ISO smearing and noise reduction diffuses the clearly defined edges of the orbs.

Comment edited 55 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
jjlad
By jjlad (Dec 7, 2011)

There are orbs all over the place in that photo. All of the specular highlights exhibit the same issue. Looks like the camera is trying to emphasize specular highlights to create some sort of bokeh ...and failing miserably. My gut feel is that it is a firmware/processing algorythm issue that they could back off or change for everyone with a firmware upgrade.

0 upvotes
Martin Datzinger
By Martin Datzinger (Dec 7, 2011)

ISO smearing has nothing to do with why the orbs disappear at higher ISO settings. The cause is blooming, overflow of electronic charge into the neighboring pixels, if you like. At higher ISO for the same szene, there are less photons hitting the sensor, hence less charge in the pixels and less blooming in the end. That's why I am also extremely sceptical how firmware could be of any help for such a fundamental hardware flaw. I still fancy the X10, though.

0 upvotes
timo
By timo (Dec 7, 2011)

Ouch. Whatever the official tolerances may be, those artefacts are simply not acceptable. I was on the brink of pressing the button for an X10 - but now glad I didn't take the plunge. Lets hope they get it sorted. Whether it's a firmware matter is a big question though.

0 upvotes
Rmano
By Rmano (Dec 7, 2011)

Ouch! Seems a software problem to me --- it's too circular to be sensor pixel overload, or am I wrong? I would expect a more hexagonal pattern on the frontier in that case (I don't know if I made myself clear...). Is it the same on RAW? maybe a convolution with a circular pattern to enhance sharpness gone terribly wrong?

0 upvotes
rccasgar
By rccasgar (Dec 12, 2011)

Upps... I really love what Fuji is doing with its X series, but what it's shown in this picture is simply not acceptable (if true).

I'm really willing to buy X-S1, but for sure I will wait for DPREVIEW to check that Fuji's ammendment for this problem really works.

Comment edited 28 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
dwnthk
By dwnthk (Dec 7, 2011)

I was thinking about buying this one, but now I will wait a bit longer.

1 upvote
max metz
By max metz (Dec 7, 2011)

After using the x10 camera this is a very minor non issue, Fujifilm has produced a beautiful piece of equipment in the x10, the fact that they are addressing it shows their depth of commitment to the x-series.

The x100 sticky aperture blade problem was fixed in short order, a complete redesign of the outer aperture blade control mechanism and they appear to be replacing the complete lens on affect cameras – again remarkable support.

For anyone used to using a premium dslr, the little x10 is a revelation.

0 upvotes
deeohuu
By deeohuu (Dec 7, 2011)

!?

"the camera is working within prescribed tolerances and that the problem is not uncommon in other cameras but says that it plans updated firmware to 'lessen the effects' of the blooming"

Unbelievable! which other cameras!? They will not not resolve it mind you, they will lessen the effects which are already in prescribed tolerances. revelation indeed! My RMA request is in and back to usable premium dslrs for me!

Comment edited 33 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
409novaman
By 409novaman (Dec 7, 2011)

The fact is that Fuji is using the customer as an R&D Department.
They will get the shutter blades straightened out for the next version of the X-100, now that you have found the problem. The issues with the X-10 will be solved with the next version, don't worry. I hope they solve the problems before you run out of money buying new Fuji's. R&D is rough work and I applaud those that work for Fuji, even if it is the customer.

0 upvotes
mzel
By mzel (Dec 7, 2011)

No, that is called QA. Normally separate department. I do that too, but only with beta customers.

1 upvote
409novaman
By 409novaman (Dec 7, 2011)

That's called: How to go out of business 101.
With all the effort they are putting into making crap products that are not fully developed, Fugi will develop a bad name.
They can follow GM to the trash heap.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Dec 10, 2011)

@ max metz, we are so very glad to learn that you so love to be the field tester of new cameras from Fujifilm. Alas, not all of us have that luxury.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Dec 10, 2011)

@ 409novaman, your comment is priceless. Yeah, many companies (but fortunately not all) use the customers as their R&D and field testing team. The very expensive RED digital cameras are also notorious for that.

0 upvotes
Bhiromography
By Bhiromography (Dec 7, 2011)

I think the chromatic aberration removal in the firmware was too aggressive.

0 upvotes
Fujifilm Finepix F30
By Fujifilm Finepix F30 (Dec 7, 2011)

Fuji should recall the affected X10 cameras. It's obvious they have a manufacturing defect that escaped detection from their QA department. The promised firmware upgrade is not likely to improve it much judging from the size of the 'orbs' which is about 4x the normal size if you consider the comparison with the Olympus XZ-1 above as 'typical' or 'normal'.

That the blooming issue is something 'not uncommon' with digital cameras is true but it's not the whole truth. The whole truth is that the XZ-1 has a blooming area 4x the normal (XZ-1). To say that the camera (X10) is 'working within prescribed tolerances' is simply not true. Come on Fuji, do a 'Toyota' and admit this blunder.

Also, the high ISO solution just doesn't work. The reason the orbs are slightly lesser in size at high ISO is because there is much less detail and more smearing of edges (noise reduction) at high ISOs. Also, there are exposure differences (slightly more underexposure in high ISO's).

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Northgrove
By Northgrove (Dec 7, 2011)

Yes, I don't understand how increasing ISO will *reduce* this effect, optically speaking. The opposite should IMHO happen, not taking artifacts into account. Since the camera sensor gets more sensitive.

Increasing the dynamic range makes sense though. But I think the improvements, while they may exist, are pretty neglible.

0 upvotes
Klabautermann
By Klabautermann (Dec 8, 2011)

AFAIK, with higher ISO (and same aperture), the exposure time will be reduced thus less light comes onto the CMOS (= less electrons for causing blooming). The same brightness of the picture will be achieved by increasing the gain electronically (and therefore you will get more noise...)

0 upvotes
op204
By op204 (Dec 7, 2011)

I returned mine because of this issue. Serial #14A05933. As soon as they fix this problem, count me in to buy the improved version. Really enjoyed this camera the few days I did have it.

1 upvote
straylightrun
By straylightrun (Dec 7, 2011)

What about the sticky blades issue for the more expensive x100?

0 upvotes
remo1232
By remo1232 (Dec 7, 2011)

Unfortunately they seem NOT to be able to fix that. As well as the horrible AF issue. I just sold mine for $1.100 online. Also I was not able to add any filter, such as polarizing or density filters. I am not buying any more Fuji products, EVER. Back to Nikon DSLR...

0 upvotes
Photoworks
By Photoworks (Dec 7, 2011)

They should also address the power up problem with the X10 with this firmware update.

0 upvotes
sanhodo
By sanhodo (Dec 7, 2011)

What's the power up problem?

0 upvotes
Summit_pg
By Summit_pg (Dec 7, 2011)

Do something sooner than later Fuji. This kind of garbage coming out after the whole aperture blade issue with the X100 is making Fuji products look like junk. Love the X10; hate the baggage it brings with it. Signed: A disappointed X10 owner.

1 upvote
shutterbobby
By shutterbobby (Dec 7, 2011)

Please look at my flute/sax pics in my gallery..no difference with dr400,800 ..EXR modes, etc.. still razor sharp discs..and why shoot high ISO when I need the detail of low ISO,negates having a fast lens..Fuji we really want to love the camera as its so good in many areas,but this WDS destroys the joy of it...

0 upvotes
Jninh77
By Jninh77 (Dec 7, 2011)

I had dust on my sensor and AF problems at full tele end. I exchanged it and new one focused much better and not dust. THe bloom problems definitely degraded my shots where I captured a ray of light in the woods. However, still love the DR on the camera and nice fill flash. Handles like a champ.

0 upvotes
PG Thomas
By PG Thomas (Dec 7, 2011)

Just to put some perspective on this.. I've had lens dust from an early camera (low hundreds) and that was replaced (Jessops) as soon as they had new stock. WDB I may have had, but not at a level which I have noticed over 1500+ images so far. And under all kighting conditions. Would I by another? Yes, as the advantages outweigh this problem (for me).I think if you look for the perfect camera, you would never own one.

If i had to guess, it is mainly seen by photographers in more sunier climes than the UK mid Winter. What is ISO 100?

I have trust in Fuji to fix this, by firmware or replacement with an X10/II. Pentax did with the early K5's (which had sensor marks). And I'm sure DPReview will keep everyone informed

1 upvote
Valentin Padurean
By Valentin Padurean (Dec 7, 2011)

Here is another "real-life" example of the specular highlights appearing as white discs on FujiFilm FinePix AV100 (seems same problem): http://gadjodillo.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/dscf5324.jpg

Comment edited 5 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
silps
By silps (Dec 7, 2011)

Unless Fuji release the update within a week my X10 is being returned. I get white discs just from the flash reflecting off eye glasses. Overall it's a great camera but when this issue appears it will ruin your shot. Just imagine taking a sunset over the ocean, all the bright light reflections off the water will be white discs. I can always buy again if they do fix the issue by firmware. But I am having my doubts about that.

1 upvote
Andre Philipp
By Andre Philipp (Dec 7, 2011)

Hopefully it won't be part of Fuji's plan to fix these orbs by locking down low ISO modes to ISO 400 or underexposing in any way which would result in a noise penalty the customer "has to" accept.

0 upvotes
Steven J.M. Sinski
By Steven J.M. Sinski (Dec 7, 2011)

the sky is falling, the sky is falling

0 upvotes
mcshan
By mcshan (Dec 7, 2011)

The old Canon SD870 was the World Champion orb maker. Day, night..any kind of light and with flash they were almost certain. Canon figured it out and I am sure Fuji will.

1 upvote
jorepuusa
By jorepuusa (Dec 7, 2011)

It seems that thousands of people are taking pictures just to see the blooming.
Or some other problems in some other cameras.
As it is with amateur pixel peepers, the real pictures are lacking and when someone finds a problem, everybody now shoots for hilites and dooms then the camera. Really funny. And it is so just cause people think that a new camera again could make them at last photographers. Well it does not.
The best pictures in the world were taken during 1880-1950 and did those cameras have problems ;-) I`d bet nobody in this thread could make any pictures at all with those boxes.
Photography is about pictures, not about bloomingwatchers ;-)

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
PG Thomas
By PG Thomas (Dec 7, 2011)

If you take a sunset over the Ocean, you won't be at ISO100 - which seems to be the culprit... . You will be on at leat ISO400 and DR 400 - And you won't get Orbs (or any worse than most. What you will get is shadow detail and no burned out highlights except that big Orb that keeps us alive. I've tried it and Its OK.

As an X10 owner, I realy want to know how many other peoples images have been ruined by 'orbs' - As a %.. For me I ruin far far more by being too hasty with the shutter, and not thinking about the image and composition!

One month On, 1600+X10 shots and no shots 'ruined' Orbs.... :-) Plenty by my haste... :-(

Pete T

1 upvote
MHaleGreen
By MHaleGreen (Dec 11, 2011)

I will reserve final judgement until I experiment with the camera myself. But I have a feeling that the pixel-chasing camera geeks are launching an assault and most of the outraged responders here probably couldn't take a photo to save their lives. This reminds me of the criticisms of different films back in the day. Ridiculous claims were put forth like "Kodak Portra 160 is crap! ALL my pictures had a greenish cast!" or "Fuji portrait films give horrible skin tones!!". It makes me wonder if the complaints are put forth by those working for the competition to create negative buzz.

Fuji's statement that this occurs with other cameras is not a cop out, as other cameras certainly have similar performance issues and/or worse ones. If all other cameras were perfect, I might be inclined to support the bashers here a little more. But until then fellows---chill out, take a xanax, and go work on your photography skills. Don't bore us with "Oh, woe is me! Fuji is a horrible company!"

0 upvotes
Lifeforms
By Lifeforms (Jan 2, 2012)

any latest news on this fiasco?

0 upvotes
mayogeezer
By mayogeezer (Jan 10, 2012)

I think the best outcome is that it is some sort of flare reduction and object enhancer in the processing engine that's gone wrong, and that Fuji will just turn it off in the next firmware. The worst case is they'll force up the ISO and DR in the auto modes.

0 upvotes
Total comments: 219
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