abortabort: The 300mm f4 is not the equivalent of a 600mm f4, or if you want to argue that it is (which I'm NOT here to do either way) then the Fuji 16mm f1.4 is not a 24mm f2.1. Again can't be bothered for arguing either camp however it would be good if there was some consistency. Generally DPR do equiv FL and f-ratio, which is why I'm pointing it out here.
@abortabort, you FF shooters are so sensitive.
lcf80: Samsung, seriously - why releasing device that's obsolete on day one? Wake up, Android 5.0 was released months ago.
Seeing the IQ, I can't blame them. It took them only a year to get over the shock and finally press the "Publish" button. ;)
It was release a year ago. DPR just catching up.
"[...] it would be good if there was some consistency."
How about *learning* to *read*, before complaining and demanding "consistency"? After all, if you can't read, how can you know whether the DPR is consistent or not?
DPR wrote, quote:
"Finally, here's Olympus's forthcoming 300mm F4 telephoto prime, which is equivalent to a 600mm lens on M43."
Nowhere, NOWHERE, DPR said that the Oly 4.0/300mm is equivalent to FF's 4.0/600mm. It has only said/implied that FOV is equivalent to that of 600mm on FF.
Thorgrem: So at the end of this year we will have in the pro line of Olympus lenses:
Zooms: 7-14 f/2.8 12-40 f/2.8 40-150 f/2.8
Primes:8mm f/1.8300mm f/4
Very nice Olympus, keep it going but don't forget the Premium line. A new m4/3 12-60 f/2.8-4.0 would be awesome.
"A new m4/3 12-60 f/2.8-4.0 would be awesome."
After all, Oly has finally made a m43 camera with a swivel LCD.
All what's left to bring over the best from the 43 is the 12-60mm lens.
I didn't expected more from a P&S, frankly. But being reminded how the P&S IQ looked like was really refreshing.
A very good zoom range, 23mm WA, 10cm MFD, good back LCD and proper network connectivity. But lens is prohibitively soft. Yet, the street price is very decent. What's more, it behaves like a smartphone, which is a big plus for the target audience.
A pretty unique and interesting camera overall. And apparently, it can work as a normal Android device.
lawny13: Perhaps we should all stop the hating and take a step back.
Sure the 5DS (and 5DS R) doesn't have the DR of a D750. But it has the higher MP count.
If you think about it what canon is trying to do is not so easy. There is a lot more at play than most realise. I have read articles that point out that software companies often make changes and releases in order for their consumers to have a sense of progress (cough cough look at itunes). Releasing this camera is a step forward for canon. The DR issue requires a lot of changes and tech implementation that they probably don't have set up (yet lets hope). They are a proud company that doesn't want to simply by sony chips. That move from nikon could be perceived as desperate. It would be the same if canon did the same.
Sony is a company to be watchful for. They have the established tech and fabs to go full steam ahead with regards to the development of their chips. It is the corner stone to their products after all.
You kind of have a point. But I think the camera would have been a magnitude more interesting, if it had APS-C sensor and was 50% cheaper.
50MP on APS-C, at $2000, would have been a grand news, even with all the high ISO and DR limitations. Because nobody did it before.
idefixx: couldn't find the information. how many bits are the raw files from the em5ii and em1?
Oly never made the jump to 14/more bit RAWs.
The Sony went even lower - and still delivers the IQ.
In other words, the bitness of RAW files, as a metric of IQ, is overrated.
Of course no. Let's remind ourselves, why Canon even bothers with the mirrorless:
DSLR sales are in freefall, while mirrorless doing much better: they are yoy flat.
They simply have the responsibility before their stockholders to try everything to salvage the situation and better protect themselves from the DSLR downfall. They simply do not care. After the DSLR fall would stop, inevitably, in a much smaller market, the DSLR prices would go up and it would be business as usual for the Canon. It's not like they (as a company) depend on the camera sales for surviving.
sierramike: Mirrorless is all about compactness for many people. All the people I know use their csc with just one lens. For those people, a large sensor compact like G1x or G7x would be a great - and compact -alternative. Maybe that was the direction Canon was looking for. I have a 5D3, 70D, EOS M and G7x. My favourites are 5D3 for "Photography", especially portraits with primes, and my EOS M with 22mm as low-profile walkaround camera on my job and during family trips. 70D is just an alternative for a teleconverter, the G7x... well, I just sold it.I think csc's will replace the lower end DSLR's for enthousiasts. For the average consumer a fixed lens large sensor compact is a better choice in my opinion.
Of course. Long before mirrorless, the live preview was probably the most wanted feature by literally everybody in the photography. With film one couldn't see the shot until the film was developed. Digital initially wasn't much better, because the screens were smalls and low res. The need for good preview has pushed the back LCD quality to where it is now. Now, with a DSLR, one can make a shot, check it out and if not satisfactory, make another try. Mirrorless has removed the last remaining limitations and one can actually see the scene as the sensor sees it, as it would appear in the final shot.
Dimit: So much trouble for m43 ???Olympus makes great cameras but nullifies itself by not upgrading to ff.Pitty..
"[...] study the trade offs and make a choice, or just have a foot in both camps."
"[...] where else a FF is usable anywhere, anytime, any condition."
Silly. Very silly indeed. FF is usable only in the places and times where/when carrying extra 2-5kg of gear is OK. And in the places where it is allowed to have a pro-looking camera with you. And in the places where taking out your huge camera would not spoil the mood. Basically, only if you have no life, never leave the house, only then the FF is "usable everywhere, anytime".
"m43 is a compromise for portablity and it'll always be."
Which is quite important and not to be underestimated for an inherently portable tool which a digital camera is.
Raist3d: Richard, something is not quite right with this explanation of the high res mode. We were just discussing that over the m43rds forum and the point was brought forward.
Think about it- if you are capturing full color in a spatial position, that gives you an original "Foveon X3" type file of 16MP. If you shift a bit to then do the 4-position dance again, that at best gives you another 16 MP file. So the total is really 32MP, not 64MP, or even 40 MP.
My guess here is that Olympus is doing a clever analysis that gives them the near full color data and bump up to 40 MP. Makes even more sense why it's 40 MP and not 64 MP. The 64 MP file does not seem to me would be full spatial resolution. It also keeps color moire at bay.
And to finish the merge, and get the 64MP image, one simply mixes the color channels of the two images taking colors from the overlapping pixels of the two 16MP images.
What I'm relaying here is of course a generic algorithm I have just "invented", using the 15yo knowledge from the computer graphics classes I took at university. I'm sure that Olympus has imaging experts who can do much much better with all the information available from the 8 shots.
"My guess here is that Olympus is doing a clever analysis [..]"
Raist, it's not "clever", there are old and tried methods in computer graphics dealing with that kind of things. Effectively it is an interpolation.
For information interpolation, you have to stop thinking in discreet units, and go for rational/fractional units. In this case one can simply multiple/divide by two, but since it is 2D image, the factor of two becomes factor of four.
First four images taken, with the steps at 1 pixel size, turn the four Bayer 16MP images into one 16MP true color one, as you say.
Second four steps do the same - but with the step of half pixels. Another 16MP true color image.
Now, we need to merge the images.
Visualize the image as a grid of pixels. Now overlap the two 16MP images/grids, with offset 0.5 - what would you get? Every pixel in the first/second image is cut in *four* parts by gridlines of the second/first image. 16MP * 4 == 64MP.
LOL. "Upgrade to FF". Hehe. Nice one, Dimit. Nice one.
Donnie G: Seems to me that these 2 new Canons have the potential to further disrupt the medium format market and possibly in a major way. It just seems like a good bet that up and coming architectural and fashion photographers would find a lot of uses for these cameras and their L-lenses that were not possible or even affordable to do with traditional medium format gear. Don't be surprised if Canon winds up taking some serious marketshare away from the medium format makers without having to invest in designing a MF sized body or MF lenses and lens mount. :)
"The 5DS will convert many others still clinging to their MF backs."
IMO, if D800 didn't manage it back then, I doubt 5DS would fare much differently.
Difference between 38MP and 50MP is relatively small.
While the price difference between a used D800 and a new 5DS is huge.
It seems that the people who wanted to move from MF already have. But the remaining few indeed need the MF, and as such are unphased by such releases.
DStudio: Why create a 50MP sensor and then "pre-blur" the image with an AA filter? The applications for the non-R model seem rather limited.
> "Fake Detail" sound like something a Canon loyalist would come up with
It is something used by people who actually understand intricacies and inherit problems of the demosacing algorithms, required to make an image off a sensor with layout, Bayer or X-Trans.
Mssimo: I think this will be a very successful camera. Sony/Nikon/Pentax/Fuji/Olympus/Panasonic photographers have been spoiled with crazy dynamic range but canon shooters know how to optimise the exposure to get the best image possible with 6 year old sensor technology. The big issue with this camera is the price in six months. Nikon and Sony will have 50MP+ super sensors out this year. Those cameras will retail for much less than $3700 US. Canon has great lenses and great body (other than sendor) quality but its time they give in and let someone else create the sensors. The best way I can put this is: Canon is a beautiful, long haired, tan, big eyes, long legged, charming girl with brittish austin powers teeth.
> canon shooters know how to optimise the exposure
"Optimize" means that you sacrifice abundance of something to compensate for the lack of something else. And more fiddling with the settings. Compared to the competition, sensor doesn't give much leeway to sacrifice something.
In the end, Canon shooters may know how. But I doubt many take any pleasure in that.
ThePhilips: Oh. The top LCD.
Another thing I stopped craving, after I went with a mirrorless.
I'm not sure why NX1 has it. Probably because Samsung could do it, and some DSLR users are are simply hanged on the fact that the top LCD is a mark of a premium DSLRs.
Simple truth is that a mirrorless camera doesn't need top LCD. More information is, of course, better and extra display doesn't harm. But all the information is already readily available on LCD and EVF.
The top LCD is a crutch for DSLR where it is still often impossible to have customizable info overlay on LCD and EVF.
bosco1955: Why not going the other way on the ISO....25,50, ?
"Why not going the other way on the ISO....25,50, ?"
Sensors have limited sensitivity range. Last time I heard - 4-5 EV stops. That range is then stretched by electronical and software tweaks to cover the needed range if ISO numbers.
To improve the high ISO performance, low ISOs gets sacrificed.
High ISOs are hard to compensate for, while the low ISOs can still be compensated for by (unwieldy) ND filters.