ThePhilips: That's quite a laundry list of problems with the higher resolution sensors. Yet, DPR has in recent reviews - X100T and E-M5/2 - criticized the lower resolution (16MP) of the cameras. And in comments DPR has been defending their position, saying that there are no downsides for going to higher resolution. That seems to be inconsistent, if not even hypocritical.
> There's just more to the story, as always :)
Well, I have my own agenda too :) Though I am not as capable articulating it.
The problem as I see it is that higher resolution only addresses problems of several niches, but not the mass market.
IMO DPR is in a good position to poke manufacturers about the Foven-like, true color sensors.
Micro-blur is the icing on the "cake". And the cake stinks suspiciously.
High MP count has low ROI - if those pixels are crappy pixels.
Even with the high MP count, demosaicing of the images from Bayer sensor washes away the most of the fine details. (DPR has even implied as much in the E-M5/2's review of high-res mode.) And with monochrome sensors, one has to go much much higher in resolution to match the output of the true-color sensors. And still fail to match it, because the demosaicing still has to do the guesswork.
That's quite a laundry list of problems with the higher resolution sensors. Yet, DPR has in recent reviews - X100T and E-M5/2 - criticized the lower resolution (16MP) of the cameras. And in comments DPR has been defending their position, saying that there are no downsides for going to higher resolution. That seems to be inconsistent, if not even hypocritical.
The NX1 is their first which deserves such attention - and the award.
I'm hopeful it wouldn't be their last.
P.S. Samsung, NX500 with EVF please. Do it already. Give us the camera worth your pancakes lenses.
Donnie G: Canon creates another tool for working pros that, once again, sends armchair hobbyists stomping about madly and foaming at the mouth with rage and resentment because the product wasn't designed for them and isn't priced for them either. Boohoo! How dare Canon put pros before trolls! Let's teach Canon a lesson by running out right now and buying all the A7s, A6000s, FZ1000s, and GH4s we can find, then put our Canon lenses on them. I bet that'll show Canon who's boss. :))
nerd2: Why is it a big deal? We have 4K video on our PHONE, as well as upcoming mirrorless cameras (which has larger sensor than this and can accept multiple lenses too)
"You countered saying that no 4K capable camera does line skipping and I concurred."
No 4K camera does line skipping in 4K mode, as you have said above. Quote: "Other mirrorless cameras with bigger sensors usually have to do line skipping to sample 4k". Which is BS.
"I also said that the bigger sensors do line skipping for 1080p (which is true for the A7, A7R and A7ii)."
Which are not video-optimized or even hybdid cameras and do not belong to the discussion here, about the hybrid cameras.
"But whatever, you seem rather combative so I will end this discussion here."
It wasn't even a discussion. You have overgeneralized that MR have crappy video (line skipping is bad). Which is simply not true for all the hybrid MR cameras the XC10 is pitched against.
But not the A7s. (Not the GH4. Not the NX1.)
The other A7 cameras were not even mentioned here before. Neither do they support external recording, high bit rates or the 4K. What is the point of bringing them up now?
Dale Baskin: Since there have been a lot of questions/comments about this camera relative to cameras like the FZ1000 we've decided to put together a small addendum to add to the article that may clarify the differences between cameras. (Which is why I'm not hanging out here responding to comments.) I'll post a message as soon as it's up.
"That's your words, not DPR's."
I have just reversed the reversed words to express clearly what was only implied.
"But in terms of ergonomics and body design, they are stills cameras first and foremost [...]"
That's just ridiculous.
Around the time of Panasonic GH2 launch, there was a interview with the Panasonic reps, where they have said that video shooters *overwhelmingly* requested the DSLR-like ergonomics.
"[...] while the XC10 is designed for both stills and video."
Really? Now literally quoting from the marketing materials? Go to m43 forums and search moaning of the stills photographers, who keep complaining that Pana GH is designed for video and thus they do not want it. And now compare the GH still spec with the XC spec...
"The only exception to the excellent ergonomics are the four buttons on top of the dial that control ISO, WB, AF, and metering, which feel a bit Nikon-esque."
The condescension is truly Canon-esque.
"I stand corrected, the bigger sensors only line skip when recording 1080p."
BS again. All like one do full-sensor readout.
"Still a lot of pixel binning happening [...]"
No pixel binning, either. Just normal plain downscaling.
What rock you are living under?
MarioV: "If you're one of those people leaving comments along the lines of 'too expensive!' and 'Canon has lost its way' then rest assured - this product isn't for you."
Well said. Unfortunately, it didnt stop the moaning. A lot of people have a massive sense of entitlement and are the centre of the universe.Nice try though.
"A lot of people have a massive sense of entitlement and are the centre of the universe."
Very succinct description of the Canon proponents here!
It's unbelievable how people could stick with the products of the company, which is shafting them on every turn for many years now. Those who persist and stay, clearly develop the "center of universe" type of mentality.
"Other mirrorless cameras with bigger sensors usually have to do line skipping [...]"
Not a single mirrorless camera shooting 4K does line skipping. Pana GH4 and Sammy NX1 crop from the center, while Sony A7s does full sensor read-out.
pgb: I think that should be 305mbps, if it can do 305 mBps , Bytes then I hope it uses SSD drives. Pretty impressive 305mbps, starting to get into some serious low compression with 4K.
`19MP raw image file, similar to a raw file from a DSLR' Red usually runs about 5:1 compression in raw, does the Epic do uncompressed raw ?
IIRC NX1 produces H.265 @ 50mbps.
But unlike Tugela, I heard that it is similar to H.264 @ 200mbsp, not 300mbsp.
One of the reviews did comparison of GH4's 100mbsp and 200mbsp footage, and found differences negligible (mostly because Panasonic's codec is very good even at lower bitrate). And the NX1's 50mbsp is very close to the Pana's 200mbsp. I doubt very much that the Canon's 300mbsp would give much quantifiable benefit in the real life.
But that discussion is moot anyway - until the camera is actually reviewed/video is examined. The quality of codec often trumps the bitrate.
kadardr: We just got a first glimpse how the serious Canon EVIL camera will look like in the future. This design may serve as a foundation of the coming interchangeable lens Canon cameras of the mirrorless type.
New line of cameras:
Canon EOS Muahahahahaha
AJC Photography: Looks like a BRILLIANT all-round camera/video device to give to people that are NOT mega enthusiasts and 'film-makers' ... Many/most of the very negative comments about 1" sensor size and layout and 'limited' zoom lens / lack of power zoom (and more) = all equally GREAT things to put in the hands of a TV reporter / sports journalist / other multi media people that simply need to put out very very good quality (average) 720P / 1080P or better video ... QUICKLY !!The fact that it will provide stills or stills from video frames too = a 'no brainer' for a smaller news / sports gathering outfit. Think how discreet it would be in a war zone or to sneak into many environments where something way more massive with all sorts of 'OTT' add-on Meccano look junk = OVERKILL.
I'm convinced it will sell VERY well in fact.
Think of where GoPro has made a certain sector almost it's own. Canon has also cleverly used the same 60/70D, 5DMkII/III and 6D type battery for this device too. Makes sense.
"people that simply need to put out very very good quality [..] QUICKLY!!"
But then suddenly a pile of time-intensive PP pops up:
"Better bit rates and designed better for one. Did you noticed the exhaust vents on the camera? Can you do any type of log on the FZ1000? The XC10 will record 4:2:2 video, what spec is the FZ1000?"
All of that requires PP and goes against the "QUICKLY" premise.
"Why doesn't Panasonic list that?"
Because FZ1000 is a consumer level device which allows consumers *QUICKLY* create a good looking video, which doesn't require any PP and can be immediately played back on any device.
speculatrix: The Panasonic GH4 seems a better product for video as it's more mature, has good connectivity options, a big pool of lenses to choose from.
As well as the often ignored fact that the GH4 is also one of the best still cameras.
munro harrap: I have just read Canon's stuff on this on their own website. UK price is £1600, so it is only 2.something times more expensive than an FZ1000, but they are advertizing it as an aspiring filmaker and enthusiasts camera. IT is worth downloading the spec sheets, but as well as limited IS in 4K mode there is none in slow or fast modes either anywhere and the battery life typically is around 75 minutes, people.I cannot see anything about recording levels or external recording level monitoring, but it does have an external mic and a headphone socket.Very expensive considering you get just a loupe instead of an optical or even EVF viewfinder. I cannot imagine using it for stills, and cannot imagine how noisy it might be in poor light with an f5.6 lens on a 1" sensor, can you?
"It will be interesting to see if any of the pros who will actually buy and use the XC10 [...]"
You do not realize how silly you sound.
Watch DigitalRevTV's "Pro Photog, Cheap Camera" challenge.
"This is the first camera we've seen with truly hybrid ergonomics for stills and high-end video capture."
Wow. "Convergence". "High-end video capture". You had to invent new words for it. Those measly "hybrid" cameras which so far provided only the "low-end video capture" definitely can't measure up to this glorious device.
A not-so-rare news flash from the Island Canon.
I can almost read between the lines cries for help to escape.
captura: Compare it to the Lumix GM5. The J5 is much better looking.
Pana GM design is clean and streamlined, what looks better to the most.
Otherwise, nobody is going to "see" the J5 anyway. It is so small that it would be invisible behind the lens.