AbrasiveReducer: This reminds me of a company I worked for that decided to skip PMA one year. We sent a letter to dealers saying "we're not going out of business but the money we save on PMA will be put to better products and services."
Nobody bought it and the rumors began, so next year it was back to PMA. But with Sony, I think people are confusing Sony's future, which is assured, with the future of Sony cameras which is something else.
I agree. Sony Corp. is dumping all of its unprofitable divisions in order to get more value out of its profit centers. The camera unit has finally managed to show a modest profit over the last 6 months and if that trend continues, then it might avoid being axed. If not, then the camera unit will have to find a new home and new brand name. Anyone interested in a FF Samsung A7 in FE mount with an available legacy Minolta A mount adapter? It could happen. :))
Imaging Division considered a "stable profit generator" because it was able to make money for Sony for the past 2 quarters (6 months). That is likely to be the exact wording of the text of the ad that will be posted on e-bay when Sony tries to sell the Imaging Division, probably before the end of this year. Any buyers out there? :))
mahonj: It is about giving as many options at as many price points as possible for the minimum amount of extra engineering.The innovation is the 24 Mpix sensor, which is available in 2 different bodies at prices $100 apart.You don't have to get angry about it, just buy the one which best suits your budget.
Truth is my wife and I are both passionate about photography and we plan as many photo outings together as her work schedule will permit. She's a workaholic who loves her job and I'm suppose to be a retired event photographer, but I still love doing them. So it's good to have her jump in and remind me that I have no justification for owning certain cameras today, other than I want it because I used to work with equipment of that caliber everyday. Now it's just a weekend thing, so we rent more often than buy, and the stuff we do buy tends to fit within an approximate 8 year upgrade cycle we have established for our cameras and computers, etc.. As far as figuring out women goes, I gave up on that 10 years ago when I couldn't figure out why she chose to marry someone twice her age, but I'm glad she did. BTW, our teens are her niece and nephew who have lived with us since they were 5 and 3 years old. :))
Actually mahonj, that's what most of the anger is all about, the inability of many of those commenting here to afford to buy either of these 2 new Rebels, but especially the higher priced and spec T6s/760D. Oh they want it, but they'll just have to settle for somebody's MILC again, because the wife wants a couple of pair of new shoes. I feel their pain, because I'm in that same leaky boat. My beautiful, wise, (and hopefully, merciful), gal pal, Brandi, has forbidden me to even look at the new Canon 5DS because she and the girl teen are going on a quest to purchase every shoe in the kingdom. She will gut my G.A.S. if I disobey. Since boy teen is useless in a firefight and girl teen crossed over to the dark side at the mere mention of shoe shopping, my only choice is to give in, so that my G.A.S. might survive the day. :))
justmeMN: Canon forecasts that they will sell 6.4 million interchangeable lens cameras this year. Not bad, for a company that does everything wrong. :-)
Canon currently sells 7 different Rebel models at 7 different price points so that every would be DSLR buyer has an opportunity to own one, whether they have $400 to spend or $1,200 to spend. Everybody isn't rich and different stores need products priced at levels that are affordable for the kind of customer it attracts. Canon seems to have a DSLR choice for all of them. That kind of price flexibility helps to keep Canon from being involved in the kind of fire sales that bankrupt its competitors. The only reason MILC cameras exist is because they are suppose to be a more affordable way to compete against Canon for brand recognition and marketshare. Last time I checked, the MILC makers were too busy chewing up each other's tiny marketshare to be any sort of real threat to Canon. :))
Looks like Pentax is going to try to break into the $1,800 - $2,400 market again, probably by offering a 36mp FF body in that price range. All I can say is, "I hope it works for them". :)
Donnie G: Canon is in the process of positioning itself as the number one player in the security surveillance industry, and that's where this sensor tech is headed. They're just showing it off to people involved in that business. The sensor has absolutely nothing to do with consumer cameras. People forget that Canon is involved in many businesses other than the consumer camera business. :)
Yes Vignes, but you have admit they are entertaining, and entertainment is my main reason for visiting this site when I'm between assignments. Just 2 more weekends to go before my 1st. photo shoot of this new year. :))
Donnie G: Looks like another winner for Canon's fixed lens PowerShot line that will outsell anything the MILC crowd can come up with. :)
Yes ThatCamFan, I love my big Canon DSLRs. Wouldn't trade them for anything. And I'm certain that you have a favorite camera brand too, so quit trying to play "holier than thou". Although I've personally never owned a Canon PowerShot or anybody's MILC, thanks to my friends in our camera club, I have used several of both types. What I discovered was that the only real difference between the 2 types is that one type has a fixed lens and the other accepts interchangeable lenses, and of course the more expensive models offered better build quality and usually better handling. That's it! Nothing else! So, I'm betting that Canon's fixed lens PowerShot compacts will do far better in the real world marketplace than all of the MILC cameras, including Canon's own M3, combined. I'm sure you have a different opinion, and that's cool, because time will tell as always, and I have plenty of popcorn and time. :))
Looks like another winner for Canon's fixed lens PowerShot line that will outsell anything the MILC crowd can come up with. :)
My guess is that Canon's research into the MILC camera market is showing that not only aren't there enough customers entering that market, but of those who do enter, not enough of them will buy a lens other than the one the camera came with. Canon makes the majority of their imaging profits from lens purchases, so there's not a lot of incentive to produce a gaggle of MILC bodies or lenses that are mostly destined to be a collection of warehouse orphans. That's why the highly successful large sensor, fixed lens PowerShot line of cameras exist and is still growing. They are the compact camera and lens combo that sells, and there's not an orphan in the bunch. :))
Canon is in the process of positioning itself as the number one player in the security surveillance industry, and that's where this sensor tech is headed. They're just showing it off to people involved in that business. The sensor has absolutely nothing to do with consumer cameras. People forget that Canon is involved in many businesses other than the consumer camera business. :)
Donnie G: IMO, the EOS M3 will be the dominate entry level enthusiast MILC camera in Asia and in Europe once Canon adds a few fast EF-M prime lenses to the system. I don't think Canon will bring an APS-C MILC to the U.S.. Instead, I'm guessing they will do a FF mirrorless hybrid stills/4k video capable camera to compete with the Sony A7 and Panasonic GH4. The other competitors are likely to just be caught in the crossfire between these 3 manufacturers, because it's gonna be brutal. :))
Canon's strength is in their EF lens line. A FF mirrorless Canon wouldn't be based on the short flange EF-M lenses, but instead would use standard EF lenses. The goal wouldn't be to make the smallest possible FF body, but instead it would be to offer a fast handling and comfortable rangefinder style body, probably with a built-in hybrid OVF/EVF, as an alternate choice to the traditional DSLR. That's my guess anyway. :)
Brian Slater: The consensus here seems to be that Canon is a company totally out of touch with the market. Some even suggest that Canon will be the next Kodak or Polaroid. Really? In fact, Canon remains a highly successful (profitable) business with clear goals and strategy. To answer the question as to whether they are serious about Mirrorless, just consider what their executives have communicated: they want to dominate. I would not bet against them.
People love watching celebrities stumble or fall, and Canon is the biggest celebrity among camera manufacturers. So, it's only natural that Canon would attract the same kind of doom and gloom groupies as the ones that go around proclaiming that Apple Inc. is going to be destroyed by brand X before the sun rises tomorrow. No harm done, because in the end they all wind up on forums like this one talking about products produced by the celebrity brand more than any other, even when it's a product that isn't even being offered for sale in their region. Controversy sells products too. Just ask Apple. :)
I think that fantasy showdown will be fun to watch too. After all, these same guys have been going after each other for decades in the video market, so they have a good feel for each other's strengths and weaknesses. And I have plenty of popcorn and time. :)
IMO, the EOS M3 will be the dominate entry level enthusiast MILC camera in Asia and in Europe once Canon adds a few fast EF-M prime lenses to the system. I don't think Canon will bring an APS-C MILC to the U.S.. Instead, I'm guessing they will do a FF mirrorless hybrid stills/4k video capable camera to compete with the Sony A7 and Panasonic GH4. The other competitors are likely to just be caught in the crossfire between these 3 manufacturers, because it's gonna be brutal. :))
birdseed007: The truth is that the Pentax 645Z blows this and every other Canon or Nikon camera into the weeds for image quality and weather sealing which is why DpReview haven't reviewed it and nor have DXO Mark because they don't want to upset Canon and Nikon who pay the bulk of their advertising dollars.
The 645Z isn't for everyone (sports shooters) but it has brought the cost of superior image quality into levels that serious enthusiasts and professionals can realistically afford. With a range of 16 lenses covering extreme wide angle to 400mm telephoto it can do pretty much everything.
Canon is facing an onslaught from powerful new upstarts like Samsung and Sony plus a revitalised Pentax who under Ricoh have a turnover twice the size of Nikon.
Canon sales of DSLRs/ILC down 17%Compact cameras down 32%and those numbers got worse in Q4, the Christmas selling quarter.
Canon have been resting on their laurels for too long, fortunately the competition is acting as a spur to innovation
Ah Rishi, just when we've finally gotten the Pentax guy calmed down, you had to go and bring up the absence of IBIS in the 645Z. Shame on you. You know what's coming now. Wait --for----it. :)
Yes birdseed, the Pentax 645Z is a wonderful camera. In fact, it is the only Pentax and only medium format camera that I would pay money for if I were in the market for such a camera, but I'm still glad that there are other choices out there. Canon just added 2 more choices that I think will have wide appeal among MF users even though their 5Ds/5Dsr aren't MF cameras. We'll all know just how big an impact these cameras have on MF sales by the end of the year. Folks will vote with their checkbooks soon enough, and those are the only votes that matter. :)
At last, something we can agree on, birdseed. Bigger sensor with larger pixels will always trump smaller sensor/pixels in image quality. However, where the Canon and Nikon shine are with larger and more diverse lens systems, extremely compact bodies versus MF, and very low cost compared to MF. Does a carpenter carry only one size of screw driver? No, he brings an assortment of sizes and kinds to the worksite so that he's prepared for whatever the job requires. Same is true for working photographers.
As for that other stuff, we all know that in the end, no matter who's doing the math, or how long and loudly they protest for a recount, Canon and Nikon will still own 90% or more of the camera market at the end of the month, at the end of the quarter, and at the end of the year, again. :)
Donnie G: Seems to me that these 2 new Canons have the potential to further disrupt the medium format market and possibly in a major way. It just seems like a good bet that up and coming architectural and fashion photographers would find a lot of uses for these cameras and their L-lenses that were not possible or even affordable to do with traditional medium format gear. Don't be surprised if Canon winds up taking some serious marketshare away from the medium format makers without having to invest in designing a MF sized body or MF lenses and lens mount. :)
No need to get upset, birdseed. If you're suddenly feeling a little buyer's remorse over your purchase of the 645Z, you can always sell it and buy 2 of the new Canons. Then again, if you happen to be the kind of MF user that Earth Art alluded to earlier, well then, I feel your pain. As for me, I don't need or want a 50mp camera regardless of who makes it, but I do enjoy watching Canon gobble up new camera market segments that they had never attempted to compete in before. I study Apple, Intel, and a few other tech giants the same way that others follow car companies, because it's fun. :)
WACONimages: Wouldn't it an idea for Canon to have new designer for their camera bodies... I don't talk about sensors & specifications.
These bodies keep looking the same over and over and over again. Their ergonomics are pretty ok. I've used Canon for way over a decade. But a more refreshing design would be welcome now.
Buy the Pentax K-S1.