Sad Joe: Stunning work Canon ! At last (and about time) I as a Canon owner can get really excited. Now PLEASE bring out a cheapish decent full frame DSLR designed for photographers rather than Facebookers !
Don't be too quick to write off the 6D's WiFi and GPS as a "facebooker" feature. The WiFi tethered capture for studio work is awesome. As is the ability to do self-portraits, or shoot from unusual locations. The GPS is mostly a travel feature, but I could see some photojournalists making good use of it. The AF system is a little too basic for some, but for low light events it does the job very well.
Axel Poe: Hold on, about this WiFi ability. If I shoot RAW... will I still be able to send them to any divice? Or can I only send them to a PC with that program for RAW photos?
For the smart phone connection it just sends a down sampled JPEG, but it will still save the RAW to the camera's SD card. When using a computer you can do tethered capture of RAW and/or JPEG, or download your pictures in RAW/JPEG direct from the camera. However it's slow with a lot of images, so plugging it in directly works best for large image transfers.
thewhitehawk: That first picture almost made me spit coffee at the screen with laughter.
When it comes to this kind of application a smaller sensor with a high pixel density is often preferable to a large low density sensor. I wouldn't shoot pictures of people with a small sensor, but if I did telescoping, this is what I would want. It's still more portable, and far cheaper, than an 800mm lens. It looks odd only since we are used to the look of a camera. But, if you are used to the look of a scope, it doesn't really matter the size of what you put on the back - as long as it performs. And given the burst speed of the Nikon 1 series, I suspect it will perform great.
Luigi Semenzato: I am in the market for a new camera and lenses. I have a Canon 20D with a few lenses, including the cheapest 70-200mm L series, but I am considering ditching everything and switching to a FF Nikon, and the main factor driving this is the extra 2 to 2.5 bits of dynamic range in the Nikon sensor at low ISO. There are a lot of high-contrast daytime situations in which those extra bits can make the difference between a good shot and a useless shot, by preserving important shadow or highlight detail.
In addition, Nikon seems to have a slightly better attitude toward lens compatibility, and a more sensible approach towards not limiting camera features in firmware to better capture a customer's willingness to spend money on those features.
I am wondering what other people feel about these issues. Am I way off?
FYI: I also considered switching to the d600, and there is nothing wrong with thinking about that. It looks like a great camera. Since I have a lot invested in Canon glass, and I like Canon Live View, I'm not going to switch (unless the 6D fails in real world tests). However, despite Canon fanboys saying the DR is useless, I think it could really come in handy sometimes - even for a pro who knows what they are doing. Nikon has the upper hand in sensors at the moment, is it worth switching for? Well that's a question only you can answer for yourself I'm afraid.
Sorry, I didn't see your reply, and yeah the EF-s compatibility is annoying. However, I'm not sure it's worth switching systems over. Canon chose that incompatibility to get smaller lenses, it's not really an attitude issue, but a design choice that favoured small lenses - they physically can't put EF-s lenses on FF. Since you don't own any Nikon DX lenses, and aren't going to buy any if you get the d600, I'd hardly say that matters in your situation - either way you are looking at needing to sell them.
Both Canon and Nikon limit their firmware. The d600 doesn't have exposure simulation or a live histogram in Live View, and the Canon 6D doesn't save RAW files in the HDR mode. I don't think you can say one is better than the other in that regard - unless you need the feature they are limiting.
For lens comparability, I've put the new Canon 40mm pancake on old 1990s film EOS cameras, and it works perfectly; AF and all. You can't say the same for many newer Nikon lenses. However unless you own lots of old glass, or old film cameras you want to use, the issue is basically irreverent; the EF mount is here to stay.
I think most arguments like those are made to try and justify buying one system over another, but have little real world implications. However the extra DR could be handy in some real world situations.
Ultimately, however, only you can decide which camera is better for your needs. If you find you really need to push shadows in your RAW files, than the d600 may be for you.
Jettatore: They priced it fairly well, surprisingly it sits comfortably between a new 5DIII and a used/pre-owned 5DII both in terms of specs and price. It's slightly awkward that they are still selling new 5DII's officially for only slightly cheaper but that likely won't be for too much longer.
I like the fact that they designed this with a compact body. It's something that, even though in this case it's a relatively minor size difference, could prove a useful benefit and it gives it something none of the other Canon full-frames have.
I would have appreciated a dedicated physical/hardware switch that allows for completely disabling the wiFi and GPS. Even if you think they are 'off' in software that's no guarantee, and there are some security/snooping risks involved with leaving GPS and wiFi technically available whenever the device is on.
Looks like a nice camera, I'd probably go for a used 5DII once the prices drop a little further or save the extra scrap until I could afford a Mark III.
I don't think any of the switches on the camera are truly "physical/hardware", even the power switch doesn't actually control the power to the camera - only taking the battery out will do that. I really wouldn't worry about the WiFi and GPS though, Canon wouldn't risk hurting their battery life stats by not removing (almost) all power to those systems in their off states.
Peter K Burian: The review suggests that most EOS owners have only the smaller EF-S lenses so the cost of switching to Nikon would not be excessively high. BUT ... in fact, the telephoto lenses and zooms owned by most photo enthusiasts are EF, not EF-S. e.g. EF 70-300mm, etc.
So, anyone who owns an EOS system, and is not primarily shooting ultra wide images, probably already owns a couple of EF lenses. For those folks, the cost of switching to Nikon would be high; they would need to sell not only their EF-S lenses but also the EF lenses that would work perfectly on the EOS 6D.
And then they would need to buy Nikon lenses at a much higher price than what they got for the used Canon lenses.
Also all the people like me who purchased EF lenses to have future compatibility with full-frame - or people who purchased primes, like the 50mm or 85mm, which are very popular. I own four EF lenses, and it would be cost prohibitive to switch systems. Although I'd likely still go for the 6D over the d600, just because of the more refined live view in the 6D - which I find very useful for macro and landscape work. (and in fact was the original reason I started with Canon.) Although it would have been nice if Canon could of upped the specs at little, it's not really a deal breaker if you are already invested in one system or another.
zodiacfml: Hmm, are these photos or jpegs straight from the camera? Some photos seem too good with correct white balance, color and contrast.
You know white balance, colour and contrast can all be changed in the camera? We forgot about those settings with the creation of great RAW processing software - but it's possible to create good in-camera jpegs with a bit of work.
Octane: I'm getting incredibly bored with the constant excuse of camera manufacturers say' This is only a preproduction sample, don't judge the image quality'. If it's not the final image quality, then why send the camera to the worlds LARGEST photography web site to have them post sample photos? Because the whole 'this is preproduction' is just a backdoor excuse.
Sony changed the RX1 slightly after the initial announcement. It does happen sometimes. However I'd bet it's very unlikely to change at this point; since for Canon to be selling these worldwide starting in December, they'll likely already have started building up stock - and there is a good chance this camera is from one of those initial runs. So unless they find some flaw in the production, the only things that is likely to change would be the firmware.
If at all possible, it would be great to see some RAW results. Although I realize that may not be possible yet given there may not be any RAW converters out for the camera at the moment.
MonteCarlo67: These samples look great! Really, very clean with great colors. In many ways this would be the perfect camera for me. Certainly some things held back from the 5D Mark III but most I can live with. Only one thing will keep me from buying it: The 1/4000th top shutter speed! Much like the Nikon D600, why in the heck would you cripple a $2,000+ camera by not having a top speed of 1/8000th?! Most people won't use such high speeds often. But many lesser cameras have it. No excuses for this!
It's harder to make a fast shutter for a full frame sensor; simply because there is more area to cover. The d600 and 6D likely have shutters with velocities just as fast as "lesser" APS-C cameras, but since they have a larger sensor to cover, they can't reach 1/8000. Full frame camera with 1/8000 shutters need higher speeds, and thus cost more.
DavesMan: Canon is crazy! Nearly same price (in numbers) i Dollars, Pounds and Euros??? These three currencies are not equal value! If US price i 1500 Dollars, then i should cost roughly 1200 Euros and 900 Pounds.
I wounder if this is Canon thinking some markets will pay more, or an effect of trade tariffs in Europe and the UK? Anyone who know's the import tax structure in those places and care to comment?
Jan Toude: Weather sealed compact system camera with good sensor (little channel crosstalk, high DR, high resolution, fast readout) and open application programming interface.
I second an open API!
kevindar: 5d3 with d800 sensor, shooting at 6ps full resolution, 8fps in dx format, on board flash with master funciton, spot meter linked to autofocus point.as my back up, a full frame nex, 16 mp, with a pancake 24-80 f 4 lens, and a couple of small fast primes.
Honestly I wouldn't need the 36MP, but getting a good Sony made sensor into the 5d3 would be awesome. And yes spot meter needs to be linked to the autofocus point. And frankly a better meeting system would be a nice addition as well.
As for flash, I'd prefer to see an on-board radio trigger. I never use on-board flash, but being able to trigger a few 600EX-RTs without something on the hot shoe would be nice.
My ideal camera would be/have:
* Mirrorless, and about the size and shape of the OM-D, with a hand grip.* Full frame sensor!* A good collections of fast primes (16mm, 24mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm, 135mm) - with f/1.4 to f/2.0. I don't need Leica magic f/0.95.* Great EVF and LCD screen (i.e. high resolution, fast refresh rate, good color, large viewing area).* Fast auto focus (ideally some kind of phase detect on the sensor, like the V1 maybe).* No build-in flash, but a build-in radio trigger for off-camera flashes, and a hot shoe.* Weather sealed, and durable (ok if it's a little on the heavy size).* About 18-24MP - but really I don't care as long as it's more than 10MP.* High dynamic range.* 3 control dials (like the NEX-7), for ISO/Shutter/Aperture), and a few well placed custom buttons.* Mode dial with at least 2 custom settings.* WiFi and GPS optional, but nice to have.
I think a reasonable price would be $2000-$2500 for the body, and about $500 to $1200 for each lens.
JamboME: Where is the Canon EOS Remote APP for Android? None is listed.
Don't expect any "instant" look at your shot on your tablet via WiFi. How long does it take your browser to load a high res photo? Using a cable and Live View will be more appropriate for quick review on a HD monitor.
Voyeurs are gonna love the remote control and silent shutter though.
I'm a pro and I really needed a flip screen. Oh my aching back!
I don't think it'll be "instant", but it should be possible to make it fairly good at the resolution needed by a smart phone. Keep in mind when viewing things on the Internet, your Internet connection, not the WiFi connection, is what's slowing you down. WiFi at close range will give 54Mbps (or 300Mbps if it's 802.11N), most internet connections only give 6-10Mbps (at least where I live).
The really interesting thing will be if the WiFi communication protocol is published, or reverse-engineered. Then our smart-phones can become intervalometers, motion detection based shutter releases, and even sound based shutter releases - without any extra cost.
Homam: can't believe there is so much negativity about this Canon already. It seems you have all forgotten how the old 5d mii revolutionized the market with an only 9-point AF system and until the introduction of nikon d800 according to dpreview it stood as the highest image quality dslr in the market.
What many amateurs seem to ignore is that huge differences exist between a camera's specs on paper and how it handles in real life. When d800 and 5dmiii were out in the market, i shot both for around a month and i had many more keepers from my 5dmiii in terms of color rendition, contrast, and focus accuracy. I found miii much more fun to shoot with and much more photographer friendly. d800's menu is way to complicated to handle.
I suppose a multi-billion dollar company like Canon knows what it's doing. Let's wait till 6d is in the market then we can actually compare the cameras better.
From a "photographer friendly" point of view I can see the 6D being nicer than the D600. Live view with exposure simulation, depth of field pre-view, and live histogram. An AF-ON button, easy to access ISO/play back/zoom buttons. Logically menus, possibly better noise performance, and a -3 EV focus system. It's not for sports/wild-life shooters for sure, but for a lot of people (including myself), I can see this being nicer to use than the D600 despite the seemingly lower specs.
Having said that, I can't help but be a little disappointed Canon couldn't put a few more cross-type points, and/or a 100% view-finder in this thing.
In the end, I'll wait for the full reviews on both, and maybe rent both cameras to try side-by-side before I know for sure which is the winner for me.
On paper the D600 looks great compared to the 6D, and admittedly I was ready to switch to Nikon for it. However, I likely won't, and here's why:
The D600 has no AF-ON button. I use that feature all the time. Maybe I can re-program the AE/AF lock, but then I wouldn't have an AE lock, which I also use a fair bit.
The ISO button on the D600 needs a second hand to operate. This won't be an issue to most, but I shoot with a flash in my left hand a lot, and controlling the camera with one hand is really important.
Same issue with the playback and zoom buttons. The 6D is really designed for one handed work, which is great!
The focus system on the Nikon was the main advantage I saw to switching, however Nikon's focus points are also stuck in the centre, which will require re-framing in a lot of cases... If I'm stuck re-framing anyway, the 6D works at -3 EV, which is far better.
Finally the D600 has no exposure simulation or live histogram in Live View; for my work this is important.
Low Budget Dave: Could you do us a favor and let us know your opinion of the test results? I have been reading through the comments, and different people seem to interpret the results differently.
Yeah I also don't get what's taking Canon so long to get CDAF working. I love my Canon DSLR, but seriously they should have solved the CDAF problem by now - live view is basically not usable except for manual focusing or static subjects when you aren't on a time budget.
I do really hope it's a "when" not an "if" issue, but I'm losing hope that it'll come anytime soon...
Unless they pull something off for the EOS M in the next two months, I suspect they are going to get a lot of negative reviews (although that may finally make them wake up and realize it's important).