ssh33: I love everything about NEX, but I'd never buy into the system with the current lens lineup.
There is a premium ("G") normal zoom scheduled for release sometime this year. I suspect it will be f/2.8-4 kind to keep size and weight down. Or, it could also be the first full frame lens, in which case, it might be a 24-70 or something like it (otherwise, it will be a first "G" to be designed for APS-C).
S.A.: heh so many negative comments as usual.... I've owned all Nikon and Sony. Nikon DSLRs and Sony whatevers... And this NEX 6 is the closest I've come to a do it all camera. As with all mirrorless, the autofocus leaves something to be diesired, but otherwise it's a swiss army knife of cameras. First thing I did was sell the lens. Would rather use primes and already had the 18-55.Crying about the menus is pointless. The quick navi and the fn button take care of that. Hardly any need to go into menus. Love that I an use my triggers with the hot shoe. Love the wireless. I shoot in my little studio and just hit send to computer. Love it. WONDERFUL CAMERA! Touchscreen lol. Use your cell phone then. No real advantage imho. Actually it seems a handicap if you ask me. Turned it off on the 5n after a few weeks. However, I can see no reason why they couldn't have included it for the gadget crowd. So ok, minus half a percentage point.
Any argument on such issue, for or against, is purely emotional. The logical side would evaluate why you would buy NEX-6 over NEX-5R. One has EVF (where touch screen carries no meaning for touch magnification) and the other has touch screen without EVF. Now, you could argue that EVF won't be used 100% of the time. I would argue that my preference for EVF is to use it for critical focusing, and for easier tracking (that is how I use both manual focus and tracking on my A55... don't have the option on NEX-3 so it remains LCD based).
Now THAT ain't based on emotional grounds, rather practical ones.
Abaregi: EOS M has touch, 6D does not. What is the price difference there?
As a manual shooter I have never used it on my 5R but i guess it would be nice for AF. I have never used that though (Legacy shooter)
If i start with AF lenses then i might appreciate the touch on my 5R but so far i have never used or missed it.
"I think most opposition to it is because most photographers here are old and don't like to change."
Funny that you would say that. Last weekend, my father-in-law was struggling to use his phone camera. He was touching all over the screen but to no avail. I looked into it and it turned out that the shutter release was assigned to the physical button in the traditional location of a camera, not touch screen.
Also worth noting, that iPhone initially came up with touch screen shutter. But, it was also criticized for lack of stability. During an iOS upgrade, Apple added the corner button for shutter release for a more traditional way of taking pictures.
Touch screen shutter requires hand to be moved off the grip, which is not a bright idea if you care for stability.
Question:How effective is Face Recognition feature?
Emacs23: So, I can make a conclusion now.I shoot with NEX-5n from the November 2011 exclusively and I cannot say anything bad about IQ (with the little exception the DR could be better for about 1-1.5 stops, after Pentax K-5), I have many shots I like, but the shooting experience is UGLY, this thing is anti-ergonomic and not because of its size but rather poor design, because with RX100 I have much quicker access to the essentials — that's why very many photographers love this little guy . It looks like Sony intentionally makes NEX very hard to control. It managed to spoil very basic controls, make it inconvenient to use. This thing is the typical example of what how not to make camera.I expected they will significantly improve experience with 5R and 6, but they didn't, it still sucks hard.
I see NEX-6 as a big step in the right direction with ergonomics.Control Dial: Check (addressing my biggest gripe with 3 and 5 series)Relocated Video Button: CheckDedicated ISO button close to the thumb: CheckQuick-Navi: CheckProgrammable Fn button: CheckAdditional Programmable buttons: Check
What exactly is the problem?
tbcass: This model addresses only one (eye level TTL viewfinder) of the issues that has kept me from wanting a NEX (I'm and Alpha user). The interface and lack of dedicated buttons, slow AF and the requirement to use an expensive adapter for Alpha lenses make all NEX cameras a no go for me.
Aah, your were speaking of the "can", where you might be storing all these action/sports photographs of yours.
SRHEdD: BTW... a great balance of a small camera that takes great pics? Nikon P7700. Seriously. Save some money while Sony gets up to speed in AF and image processing.
I can't decide if you're the 90%, or simply can't stop speaking for others.
Plastek: Yawn... yet another NEX? Which one is this within last 24 months? 3rd? 5th? 10th?
@austin design:"I've offered absolutely no indication that I'm confused or otherwise bothered by Sony's model nomenclature..." You, on the other hand, do seem to be confused: the Sony Alphas are NOT distinct from the NEX cameras, but actually include them..."
Claims don’t matter. What you speak do. And as you just demonstrated, that alpha logo is confusing you, perhaps more than the rest of them. At least they are only talking about NEX, you’re running around with the whole family of SLT and DSLR and NEX because they all say “Alpha”.
A person who can make such distinction as: “Sony has 3-series, 5-series, 6-series and 7-series for NEX lineup just as it has had 3-series, 5-series, 6-series and 7-series (and 9-series) for its DSLT lineup, and a similar lineup before it with DSLR.”
…is not the one who is confused.
Perhaps you should get up to speed.
OutOfFocus student: Using primes on all NEXs is still a big pain since you don't have AutoISO in Manual mode . In general there is no significant AutoISO control as one would expect on a modern enthusiast camera.This is really a major drawback of using any NEX camera with NEX primes, and the reason I've not upgraded to NEX-6 from 5N.I'm surprised this was not mentioned by in the dpreview ... do you guys only shoot the crappy kit lens?
If they shoot with JPEG option, and especially if they use OVF, they probably do have to rely on Auto ISO if they want to control aperture and shutter speed. With EVF, there is virtually no need for it as if exposure out of the camera is a priority, you see through the sensor with histogram assist. It may also be a need if the camera body they use lacks logical layout for quick access to change ISO.
And if they shoot RAW but still value higher ISO as being better, then they could still use either of the semi-manual modes, if they can’t change ISO quickly. It really is about want, rather than need. Or, something to complain about.
NEX-6 and NEX-7 have EVF. I would find it strange to use EVF and touch screen at the same time. Dial works much better. And even if you choose to use touch screen to set the point for focus magnify and then compose through EVF, you might find it a nuisance if any part of the face or hand touches the screen accidentally in the process. And if EVF is unnecessary, NEX-5R has touch screen option for its LCD based composition.
IMO, touch screen has its appeal to me, limited ONLY to focus magnify. But that is it, and can (and have) lived without it forever. And I see absolutely no use for it when using EVF (a big reason to consider NEX-6 over NEX-5R which has touch screen). And if I were to use touch screen and then compose via EVF, I would hate to see something else magnify because my face or finger touched on another part of the screen in the process.
I prefer: keep it simple. Another improvement in NEX-6 over the older models... mode dial, Quick-Navi, Fn button and less need to dig into LCD based menu system.
starwolfy: Is it sharper than a Leica M11 at Iso 12800 ?
Is that the price of the body, or al camera with samples to go with it? :D
pc168: So many NEX bodies, so confused. Can they make things simpler, straight forward ... may be just two NEX product lines, pro and amateur. And one model per line.
If you want to talk model updates within each series, let us pick a few since 2010:NEX-5 series: 5, 5N, 5R (three updates in three years)Canon T-series: T2i, T3, T3i, T4i, T5i (five updates in three year)Panasonic GF-series: GF2, GF3, GF5Olympus E-PL series: PL1, PL1s, PL2, PL3, PL4, PL5
In other words, Sony NEX isn't the only line seeing annual (or more frequent) updates. If you want to consider ALL models (2010-2012):Sony NEX: 7 cameras (3, 5, 5N, 7, C3, 5R, 6)Panasonic MFT: 10 cameras (GF2, GH2, G2, G10, GX1, GF3, G3, GH3, G5, GF5)Olympus MFT: 10 cameras (E5, PL1, PLs, P3, PL3, PM1, PL2, PL4, PL5, PM2):
thxbb12: What about auto ISO ?I wish DPR would have described the auto ISO implementation. It is very important and manufacturers have no excuses in not featuring clever implementations. Nowadays, there is no reason for not using auto ISO most of the time. For instance, Pentax and Nikon implementations are the best by far IMHO: you can set min and max ISO limits and the camera chooses the shutter speed (or aperture in T mode) and ISO according to the focal length. Additionally, you can offset the sensitivity (if you're below or over average in terms of shake) by an arbitrary amount (-2,-1,0,+1,+2). All of this can all easily be implemented in the firmware.This review completely lacks information on this matter. From user reports, it seems all NEX cameras don't let you set min/max ISO. Furthermore, it looks like the shutter speed is fixed to 1/60 in A mode!? Totally ridiculous. Because of this issue alone, I'll simply never purchase any NEX cameras. It makes them totally unusable.
>sport situations are different and of course require a minimum shutter speed. This is where manual in Nikon land (or TAV with Pentax) is very useful… (especially if the light is not constant).The need may be due to ergonomics, a non-issue on my cameras (Sony A55 and NEX-3) and the benefit of using EVF/LCD with real-time info. A recent example (Sony NEX-3 w/Minolta 200mm f/2.8 G):http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8234/8591767708_5749cf585e_c.jpgManual Mode: ISO 400, 1/640s, f/2.8, RAW – all my choices. Exposure bumped by 2-stops in LR4.
If AutoISO were used, the camera would have decided to go for the Auto ISO ceiling: ISO 1600, an example of a situation where camera’s decision making does not entail consideration for loss of dynamic range and color depth at ISO 1600 compared to ISO 400. I could shoot all night long with ISO fixed at 400 (or 200 or 800) I could have use S-mode with manual ISO. But, if one sees ISO 1600 as a benefit, Auto ISO is available in S-mode (and A-).
>what would have been the shutter speed with the 16-50 say at 16mm? Still 1/60?No. It will be down to 1/30s with 16mm lens, if you choose Auto ISO. The algorithm appears to use 1/f-equivalence to determine the floor.
>In A mode, it would be unnecessary high leading too lower IQ because the ISO would be higher than desired.Since the priority is on minimizing ISO, the shutter speed slows down to the floor calculated before ISO is bumped.
In fact, it is for these reasons that I prefer to have the control. I can evaluate the best compromise between A, S and ISO and avoiding Auto ISO is a good way of doing it.
Anybody else make cameras that actually sell? :D
Allow me to simplify. Sony NEX is available in four trim levels:3-series: Entry (Small body)5-series: Advanced (Small body, w/optional EVF)6-series: Mid (Larger body, w/EVF)7-series: Semi-Pro (Larger body, w/EVF)
Sony SLT/APS-C is available in four trim levels:3x-series: Entry (Small body)5x-series: Advanced (Small body)6x-series: Mid (Larger body)7x-series: Semi-Pro (Larger body)
Olympus Micro-Four Thirds has four trim levels:E-PL-seriesE-P-seriesE-PM-seriesE-M-series
Panasonic Micro-Four Thirds has four trim levels:G-seriesGF-seriesGH-seriesGX-series
Canon APS-C has had its own set of “few” launches (since 2010):EOS-60D (and EOS-60Da)EOS-100D (SL)EOS-550D (T2)EOS-600D (T3)EOS-650D (T4)EOS-700D (T5)EOS-1100DEOS-M
Need I go on?
@kadardr:>"Auto ISO in manual mode is a must. You must be able on any digi camera to choose any two parameters and let the camera select the third one."It is not a must have option, especially in what is supposed to be a full manual mode. But, if you prefer camera JPEG over RAW, or use OVF based system, or camera with fiddly layout, or sensors that aren’t ISO-less, then there may be a need to rely on camera’s decision.The semi-manual modes (A, S) allow for control of one or two exposure parameters (Auto ISO is available). A-mode is my most used, since I can dynamically decide the best compromise between A, S and ISO. My A55 makes it darn easy to change ISO, and/or A. NEX-3 has programmed button for easy access to ISO.But, having learnt about ISO-less nature of sensors in these two and newer Sony cameras, in M-mode with RAW, I see it backwards to worry about higher ISO. I can shoot all night long at a lower ISO instead of camera’s choice of going higher.
eddie_cam: I'd like to see a pancake like the one in Samsung's NX line, the 30/2,0, for Sony's NEXes. That as a kit lens, and I'd be all over a 3N ...
Another pancake may be nice addition, but personally, 20-24mm pancake works better for the conditions I expect to use such lens for. I actually like the size of Sony 35mm/1.8 OSS (also because I like to use manual focus more). You may also want to note that the difference between NEX-6's kit zoom (16-50) and Samsung 30mm pancake is negligible for most practical purposes (about 8mm).
Cy Cheze: Sony, Please: fewer NEX bodies, more NEX lenses. As for the menus and interfaces, pick the design that time-tests prove can be mastered and utilized fastest by teams that mix phone users, photographers, geeks, and klutzes. Deep, labyrinthine menus are a killer. The only thing missing in the somewhat redundant offering of bodies is a version less prone to overheating in video mode.
One of the reasons I find NEX-6 an upgrade is that it is more traditional, with control dial and useful buttons/dials (Fn, Navi) , while retaining programmable buttons too. Why exactly does one need to worry about settings one won't need on a regular basis?
As for lenses, well, that is another reason I've a NEX. I have over a dozen lenses to use on it, whereas I haven't really invested in Sony's newer E-mount choices which are plenty for pretty much any circumstance that a camera like NEX is designed for.