Gary Dean Mercer Clark: The red skin tones don't look natural. Using wide angle lenses for portraits doesn't produce the pleasant perspective that normal to telephoto range lenses provide. Can't believe these are the real life examples you chose to represent this lens/camera combination.
Gary, whether you agree with Steppenwolf is another matter, I'm not taking sides but I take a very dim view of folks who always whine about "bullies". Its a Western thing I know, a pre-emptive strike.
But I don't see him towering over you like a big brute over a scrawny kid threatening to cause you grievous bodily harm.
If it really doesn't matter, how can you be bullied? Surely you're no wimp. I never whine about bullies because I can never be bullied. Period.
vscd: Let's see what happens after Canon comes up with a new sensor with equal or better dynamic range than Sony. You will see there is nothing left for Sony to be proud of ;)
[...]Sony's ergonomics vary all over the map. They usually throw way too much garbage in our faces, designing their cameras for people who talk about photography more than actually do it.[...] Ken Rockwell, yesterday ;)
They just did, unless you only just crawled out of a cave yesterday.
Their "new" sensor - the 5DS - was the best they could come up with - using the same sensor technology from the past 5-8 years.
How do we know that? The 5DS has the same DR as the 5D MkII for heaven's sakes!
57even: Mother Theresa was not a psychopath....
Sorry, just thinking about the idiocy of defining something by what is isn't.
iPhones are "mirrorless" cameras too.
@HowaboutRAW - Are you typically one of those with difficulty understanding what "Seeing what the sensor is seeing" means? Even Liveview via the rear LCD panel allows you to do that but the point being it is a sucky way to do it compared to EVFs.
Cams w/o any kind of viewfinder are simply that - low end non-cams for non-serious photogs. No self-respecting serious photog shoot stills by holding their camera 30cm in front of the body with only their hands & framing with a puny 3" LCD screen at that distance!
Just cos a lotta folks do that with their cam-phones and other cams with no viewfinders does not mean that the basics of photography no longer apply.
Proper photography technique requires the bracing of a camera in both hands against the body (in the viewfinder's case, the eye). Even medium format cams with waist level viewfinders can be braced against the stomache.
Its all abt minimizing camera shake so you can use the lowest shutter speed appropriate for any particular shot.
peterharvey: Should I jump into the EVF mirrorless bandwagon now while the EVF is only XGA resolution @ 1024 x 768 & 0.8 MP, hence a pixelated view?Or should I wait till EVF resolutions improve to full HD @ 1920 x 1080 & 2 MP, and Canikon offers a mirrorless FF body compatible with their huge range of lenses?Presently, I'm holding off, because I know that history has proven that technology will definitely develop.For example, during WWII, the two way radio was back pack size!By 1983, Motorola released the world's first brick sized mobile phone called the Motorola Dynatac.By the 1990's, the mobile phone got down to TV remote control size.By the 2000's, the mobile phones became credit card sized!Today, the mobile phones have increased in size to become 5" smart phones etc.Hence, I'm holding off for a bit longer, before I move into EVF mirrorless...
What a joke - how the naked eye even see any pixels on the Sony EVFs I can never comprehend?
Have you ever looked into a Sony EVF? Seriously? Which review has ever mention pixelation? Sheesh!?!
This is the kind of dinosaur comments that beggars belief - you are talking about LCD based EVFs from the first mirroless EVFs which would be from at least 5 years ago.
Sony makes the best EVFs that are OLED based. They've perfected it with the A99 and all their EVFs are based on it. There are NO pixelation visible whatsoever and NO refresh issues and stunning colour/contrast quality.
OLED refreshes instantly with no shadowing or lag. Blacks (so important for contrast) is blackhole null black.
How anybody could still be stuck on such outdated concepts when OLEDs are found everywhere nowadays from smartphones to tablets to TVs is beyond me.
The real idiocy is in folks like you who dun understand that "mirrorless in the digital era" really means one thing - seeing what the sensor is seeing real-time in the viewfinder.
I've repeated ad nauseum how the real issue is with camera users not understanding that OVF is about seeing only what the lens is seeing - a relic of a paradigm from the film era.
The defining quality of mirrorless is the EVF - seeing what the sensor is seeing REALTIME. Its like having Photoshop in my viewfinder, with realtime histogram, level indicators, focus peaking & zebra overlays etc.
I never need to chimp by looking at some stupid LCD at the back of my camera - its permanently turned inwards (closed). If it looks right in the EVF, when I press the shutter button, it will come out exactly the same on my Photoshop on my computer monitor.
The real comic-tragedy is how the Canikon-OVF sheep cannot grasp that.
Rick Knepper: Let's get honest. Sony's A7r is budget hi-rez and/or light-weight, hitting the number one and number two hot buttons of its owners. I'm going the opposite direction, $8k and a 6.5 lbs with lens. I want a decent image not convenience and the ability to pack into my wife's purse.
@Rick Knepper - "I bracket every shot I take whether it be with my D800E, 645z or the upcoming 5DsR"
LOL!!! Classic quote for the grandkids - That explains your blabbering nonsense!
1st - you've no clue what camera to use so you use every crap - that's 3 similar OVF mirrored systems and counting.2nd - you are so heavily invested in that OVF crap that you are obviously conflicted and angry with Sony.3rd - check my other posts - you are the sorry a** type with no clue what photography is - u bracket every shot cos you ain't got no clue what proper exposure is.4th - U are the kinda a** stuck on the 100+ year-old-tech-periscope-as-a-viewfinder-OVF-paradigm, who thinks photography is abt seeing what the lens is seeing & then guessing what the sensor might be seeing (cos you've no clue of the Zone system)5th - I bet you chimp a lot - every shot!6th - OVF is for the film era dinosaurs like you! Mirrorless is really about EVF - seeing what the sensor is seeing real-time! Wake up!
Maybe you should wake up then... Sony sensor IQ is probably better than any of that Canon crap you are r using.
For somebody who thinks that "decent image" means 6.5lbs of gear... wow you are truly a dinosaur! Wonder what the M4/3 folks would be thinking...
Gekneldeland: Man, that A7 is not pretty.
The problem with Canikon seems to be momentum. Takes a bit of time for that Jumbo Jet to make it's U turn.
Whatever direction they finally go with mirrorless I hope they don't go for something too small or petite. My hands can't handle that kak.
You still have not woken up!
The sensor and camera divisions are both part of the imaging business! Camera ain't profitable? LOL!!!
Check the bloody annual reports and see how profitable the camera biz (spearheaded by the NEX/Alpha series) have been! This aspect is the main basis of this article! You obviously didn't read this article at all! LOL
bernardly: Nearly everyone is assuming that further miniaturization of both the APS-C and FF DSLR is impossible. I do not believe this is the case. The DSLR concept has so much more potential. What I do believe is that Canon and Nikon have been very conservative and lazy in their R&D efforts. There are a number of possible improvements: sensor based image stabilization will greatly reduce the size and cost of DSLR lenses; radical miniaturization and integration of internal camera components as in smartphones; optical viewfinder with transparent digital overlay including a histogram based on an advanced next generation meter. A true next generation DSLR should be the size of a Nikon Fm3a or FM2 with no need to ape the idiosyncratic design details of old film cameras. The Sony A7 cameras are great innovations—make no mistake. Their allure is that they reproduce the size and shape of classic SLR cameras. Sony is lighting a fire under the Canon and Nikon behemoth.
@Camley & "So lens stabilization is a better approach - which is why Canon and Nikon use it"
I'll say this once and for all for you Canikon sheep. It is stupid to think lens stabilization is any better. All lens IS is 3-axis stabilisation save the the kind of hybrid IS in that certain Canon macro lens.
However, the state of the art in-body IS is 5-axis for ALL lenses!
There is the myth that stabilisation works better in lenses at longer focal lengths. But how many lenses above 200mm have got stabilisation? How HUGE and HEAVY would a 400mm lens be with IS? How expensive would it be? How much battery drain would it be to stabilise the huge lens elements in such lenses? How stupid... ?!?!
With 5-axis IBIS, even a 1200mm lens would enjoy some element of benefit with no or no discernable difference to size/weight/cost/battery drain!
Lens IS is purely marketing con job! Wake up!
The pentaprism box cannot be shrunk. Neither can the mirror flapping mechanism making the body thick.
But like I have said ad nauseum for a few years already - the key to mirrorless is a paradigm which a typically Canikon loyalist don't seem to get - the EVF!
The OVF is a stupid relic from the film era when you cannot see what the film is seeing, so the next best thing is to see what the lens is seeing (TTL geddit) and then you guess what the film might be seeing based on Ansel Adam's Zone system. The OVF is a technology from the first submarines during the American Civil War and used in the trenches of WWI - its called the bloody periscope. Just inverted. G.E.D.D.I.T?!
EVFs let you see what the sensor is seeing, real-time, all the time! Which is what any idiot in the digital era should be doing. Much like web transactions & stock market transactions. I dun chimp no more.
Why are the Canikon sheep still clinging to the Canikon propaganda? Some people will never get it! Duh...
Wake up, smell the roses and learn some basic facts!
Sony's imaging business is its STAR performer & making its greatest profits and showing the biggest growth!
Even when you buy your smartphone, you want a smartphone with a Sony sensor as they are the best in the world. Folks buying the Samsung Galaxy S6 want the Sony sensor version, not the one with Samsung's sensor!
Everlast66: People don't realise how much work Canon/Nikon have to catch up with Sony/Pana/Oly/Fuji mirror-less technology.
All of the above came up with completely new mirror-less mounts and populated them with lenses in the last 3-4 years. Canon/Nikon have not even started!
One option for Can/Nik is to keep current mounts just dropping the mirror and prism, but then their new bodies will not be viewed as mirror-less by customers and, while they will benefit from their huge lens collection, hardly any of the lenses have stepper motors to work well with mirror-less bodies.
The other option is to make completely new mounts, but then they will be faced by the huge task to populate with lenses and lose their existing lens systems advantage.
They also can not have an active (AF) adapter like Sony for a temporary solution, because they don't have SLT technology. Their adapters will need to have a flapping mirror and some sort of prism in these adapters, which is a technical nightmare to solve.
How many times must I say it to the idiots - Sony has ALWAYS had the full frame CZ 16-35mm f2.8, CZ 24-70mm f2.8 and Sony G 70-200mm f2.8 which are the equal to any Canikon equivalent and has been used by pros for the longest time. I know cos they were the 1st 3 lenses I got when I first switched to A99 for the OLED EVF and in-body image stabilisation.
If you consider that the Sony Carl Zeiss lenses are the only auto-focus Zeiss lenses on the market and the adapters that make the A7 series compatible with just about most 3rd party lenses in the world, what the hell are you all still whining/moaning about when it comes to lenses?
Wake up & smell the roses before you sound off!
dachshund7: Congrats to Sony, and likely Fuji as well: I expect to,see a similar report on their success with mirrorless systems. Morevchoices are a good thing.
But here's one photographer who's not ditching Canon. I still use my DSLRs more than my mirrorless camera, despite the heft. I still prefer a TTL system. Go figure.
What dinosaur era are you from? EVF problems with polarized lenses/sunshades?
Sony's OLED EVFs are the best in the market since the A99 and have never had such issues.
Liike what @abortabort said - LCD EVFs are low end ancient crap that gave EVFs a bad name in the early days!
Exactly why the Optical View Finder & the SLR is so completely screwed up in this digital world.
Its a century old "periscope" technology invented for the first submarines and trench warfare in WWI.
It was built for the film era when you couldn't see what the film was gonna see, so you would settle for the next best thing & see what the lens is seeing.
I've been saying this since the Sony A99 that bringing professional quality electronic view finders to the digital sensor is the most important development in photography.
Its about seeing what the sensor is seeing, even before taking the shot. My LCD panel is permanently turned inwards now. I don't chimp like a chimpanzee after each shot anymore because if the EVF looks right, the sensor has captured it right.
The LCD display is opened for waist /floor/overhead shots only!
Look at the unnecessary complexity of the operation! Look at how the mirror & shutter bounces several times before coming to rest! Vibration blur geddit!
Jeff Fenske: Great to see, but they're still *stuck in 3:2*, though, which seems unnecessary now that the mirror box is gone.
Why not implement a *multi-aspect* ratio sensor to capture more of what the lens sees? Many shots are better in 4:3, and achieving a native field of view in 16:9 is a great benefit too.
An *oversized* square or round sensor would be the ultimate — capturing everything the lens sees, and making tripod repositioning from landscape to portrait (or vice versa) unnecessary.
That's a stupid suggestion. You have a fixed image circle from the lens. You make the sensor to capture as much of that in the aspect ratio must common in the industry.
Why waste expensive sensor pixels when you can do everything by cropping in Photoshop (& using your brain before you frame your shot).
otoklikBG: One thing to keep in mind is that inside A7s is sensor meant for Video cameras, not still photography. It's at video that it really shines. Fact that this also makes stills this good is a great bonus to the Sony name.That said, I am Sony fan(boy) and ditched canon for them because they tickle my gadget itch more than anyone else. Sony is at their best when they let their engineers run rampant and create all kind of thing. from Betamax and Walkman to this day they always improved and innovated (even if some standards lost their advantages really quickly like MemoryStick which speed got overtaken withing 12 months). But at the same time I feel like they are innovating themselves into corner and with so many new and innovative camera's and sensors (including announced curved ones) thy can't keep up with lenses. Especially compared to Caninkon competition. Also, their lenses, by economy of scale, tend to be more expensive while not being quite as good.
@FLM - Typical ridiculous ignorance of u folks with no understanding of photography. You dunno what mirror slap is but you make ignorant cheap throw away remarks like "use mirror-lock up".
So you use mirror lock up with every handheld shot then?Did you even know that a tripod is needed to use mirror lock up?So you are gonna shoot people & sports & EVERY DAMN THING with tripod & mirror lock up?
In the film days (only 10 yrs ago) photogs were stricter with themselves wrt to technical issues like reciprocity failure and mirror vibrations.
But nowadays anyone with a digicam calls himself a photog. Hence your ludicrous nonsense.
Which explains why you don't understand the issues. If shutter vibration is an issue, you somehow can't fathom the problems associated with shutter AND mirror vibration?
Finally, since you can't fathom any of the above, I wouldn't expect you to understand the implications of seeing what the sensor is seeing as opposed to seeing what the eye/lens is seeing.
I'm no fan of anything except innovation and technical excellence. Problem with you fans is that you don't get it cos you are too busy being a fan.
Of course the technical quality of the A99 shots are higher when I have up to 4.5 stops in-body image stabilisation advantage over any Canikon at focal lengths up to 70mm (with any lens). It is a MASSIVE GAME CHANGER. Even if you are half blind you can see the difference of 3-4 stops can't you?
I can take 1/8th s shots handheld with my Zeiss f2.8 16-35mm, 24-70mm lenses at ISO 800. Other photogs would have to shoot at 1/30th s & ISO 3200 (while suffering the full effects of mirror vibration blurring + mirror slap noise) during a theatre performance.
Who do you think gets the job & the published picture?
Dester Wallaboo: My biggest complaint with the Sony cams is that they are mirrorless.... yes.... I know the advantages, but the disadvantages outweigh the advantages in my book. Being at the mercy of a monitor to know what is coming through the lens is a not what I would call a great method for shooting. Yes, I use ML so I can get full histograms while shooting using a monitor. But at the end of the day the only real way to see what is coming through that lens, outside of long-exposure photography, is to look through the lens itself with your eye. Unless Sony has recently put in screens that can display full RAW dynamic range, which I'm certain they haven't, you are at the mercy of a monitor that cannot even display full sRGB, let alone ProPhotoRGB, and certainly not RAW.
... cos you get near-time delayed feedback - AFTER pressing the shutter.
Thus you waste shutter counts, waste battery life, waste storage space taking unnecessary shots & most importantly waste time chimping/reviewing your shots on the LCD, missing the next shot.
With the EVF, you see instantly the limited DR that a sensor can capture. Its limited DR is EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT to see!
Your eyes' infinitely wide DR fools you into taking shots your sensor is incapable of capturing. This was the premise of Ansel Adam's zone system - guestimations in grey scale based on 10 stops.
Here's something most don't even know... with EVFs, you know whether a shot in the studio with studio flash is off or spot on INSTANTLY after the shot without taking your eye off the EVF.
I'd never go back to that century old relic called the periscope-pentaprism-mirror because I understand all that.
I take much fewer shots now but with more keepers. Chew on it and let the thought brew.
You are the perfect example of the ignorant pentaprism-OVF dinosaur.
The whole reason why I moved to the A99/A7 paradigm is the same reason the mirrorless brigade moved to theirs.
You dinosaurs spew the nonsense about wanting to see what your eyes/lens is seeing. So LOOK! Why do you need to put a heavy cam to your eyes to see what your eyes are seeing?
When I put camera VF to eye, I want to see what the SENSOR is seeing. I want to see an immediate exact prediction of what the sensor will GET.
WYSIWYG. That is the paradigm you dinosaurs fail to get. That is why you need to chimp and check your LCD after every shot.
Whereas I finally get to enjoy what it was like to shoot film (not needing or being able to check the shot, just concentrating on what is coming next) during the digital age.
OVF in the digital era is half-baked half-screwed...