bronxbombers4: I guess it's basically the 5 series where they introduce the top video revolutions so I guess the 4k missing from 7D2 isn't that unexpected.
The AF/fps/UI/stills body performance specs are all 100% top notch, no hold back of any of that stuff at all for once. That stuff is all hitting a grand slam.
Sensor is a bit old for low ISO DR, although that's not the single most critical thing for a 7 class body. 4k video missing, but again, hopefully that is for a 5D4 next year. Although with NX1 and everything new aside from the Nikon having 4k it does seem a bit Canon-like to have held that back.
The AF and fps and such should be awesome, certainly nothing else in the class appears to come close to the AF.
(A truly amazing fantasy cam might be the Samsung NX1 sensor and 4k video combined with the 7D2. Whoa.)
Ugh I'm hearing more and more talk suggesting that Canon is dead set against giving even the 5D4 4k and lots of talk of arrogant Canon reps blowing people off if they dare to suggest anything remotely consumer level could get 4k or things like zebras and focus aids.
I've gotten six different Canon DSLR over just the last few years, but I think I may finally stop buying them. Getting a bad feeling the 5D4 won't match exmor and won't have 4k.
Calaverasgrande: nobody else happy about 1080/60?I could give a damn about 4k.if the HDMI is good enough than I can monitor from that. Who needs a swivel display?I suppose now I'll just have start thinking of justifications to buy it. It's pretty much what I'd hoped.
So far Canon in cam 1080p has been so blurry, you'd need 4k to downscale to get a true 1080p. Look at how much remarkably more detailed SONY A7S 1080p is compared to in cam 1080p from even the 5D3. (5D3 ML RAW fixes most of that and even lets you do tricks like display 4:4:4 wide gamut 1080p and other good stuff though, so if you are willing to deal with raw, the 5D3 with a hack does give you good 1080p, just using the in-cam footage or recording the HDMI out gives mushy garbage though).
I've been reading some disconcerting rumors about upcoming Canon plans for video though. CR guy doubts even the 5D4 will have 4k. Some guy from Canon Australia said the same (although he doesn't work in a camera division). And these are some quotes from people who talked to Canon at NAB:"Canon reps told us that unless the market demands it, we won't be adding high end features [read zebras, magic focus box, focus peaking, 4k, etc. etc.] to our low-end photo products [read regular DSLRs] and you could walk up and talk to any of their engineers at the booth. It P me off a lot. I've given up on Canon pretty much entirely."
"The Canon DSLRs will not be catching up with this [SONY A7S video] and their attitude is very offputting, as is the fanboy mentality of the people that use them. I like the 5d and what it brought but time has moved on."
The 7D2 not having it is one thing, but the 5D4 not having it....
I have to think that stuff above is wrong.
I'd mostly just use it for 4k video. Something the Canon can't do at all.
Although the A7S from sony might be a better options since it can take all my Canon lenses with an adapter and once you add that in it's not more expensive than the NX1. Then again you'd still need a 4k recorder and the field ones seem to be $2000. So then it does cost more than the NX1 system again.
The 1080p from the A7S is 100x times better than from any Canon not using ML RAW and it's a lot more efficient than ML RAW.
I actually might end up getting an NX1 and a lens to tie me over for 4k. It also arrives in time for the fall foliage season. I wasn't really planning on a 7D2 but I might have nabbed one had it arrived in September and had 4k (probably to be sold off to help pay for a 5D4 next year, unless that fails to match exmor, then who knows, nikon or sony). It seems like the NX1 might be the cheapest way to get decent 4k video quality for now (?).
joyclick: @ about $1800 does 7D II make sense no matter what specs?Is the pricing reasonable from the buyer's point?
Cost a lot less than the FF 1DX. Costs a bit less than the 5D3. For stills, it offers 10fps vs near 6fps and even better AF it seems and a few dumb little things that got crippled on the 5D3 like AutoISO fixed.
Apparently they actually did hold back spot metering linked to AF point once again though, so I guess it did hold back one body spec thing for some weird reason.
I guess it's basically the 5 series where they introduce the top video revolutions so I guess the 4k missing from 7D2 isn't that unexpected.
Not bad. Now they have a true competitor to the RX100.Hard to say which is better at this point.
AJC Photography: Biggest disappointment = NO SWIVEL SCREEN.
With that disappointment having properly registered, I'm gobsmacked that it also does NOT have Wi-Fi built in. Instead GPS (which rather than Wi-F- would be the obvious 'plug-in' accessory IMHO).
Why is there no model higher than 70D with a fully articulating screen? I'd take APS-C, APS-H (that wish has sailed), or FULL FRAME (in either 6D, 5D MkIII or 1DX).
I just want the optioin of 'merging' my 60D/70D with older 1D MkIIN in one body ... and a 7D or 5D without swivel screen will just not do. If you don't want to fold it out ... then DON'T! use it. Simples.
Personally I like the GPS a lot. But everyone will differ.
Anyway the speed and AF and all sounds like out of the park, awesome.
The sensor is what it is. It would be DOA for a 5D4, but it's probably OK for a 7D2 (although not ideal and I certainly feel for the one body shooters who'd use this as their main landscape cam too).
The video looks pretty punted though in terms of quality. The video AF might be useful though.
If you don't hit DR-limited scenes much and never shoot video it's a total home run. Grand slam even (assuming it lives up to the words).
If you were looking to it for video it's a D+ if you care about all things plus video quality. If you don't care about the video quality so much at all, it's maybe B to A- depending upon unknown UI factors.
If you wanted an action cam plus great all around aps-c sensor it's mixed, great on the one hand and stuck in 2007 and not quite so hot on the other.
spontaneousservices: No articulated screen? Wouldn't a sport or wildlife photographer like to have a ground-level perspective once in a while? We get teh same camera as 7 years ago but with even better sensor, well well what a surprise :-(
@KGW - and what about when you can't, especially for macro? or what about certain sports shots where you need to hold the camera up and spray and pray, with skill you can often manage it, but flip certainly makes it easier.
bronxbombers4: The reason we know the sensor gains are minimal already is that Canon didn't brag the slightest bit about improved image quality in their press releasesbut they did say "It's ALL ABOUT THE LENSES" in their press release.
Updating to a new sensor process costs money, so they will just milk the 2007 tech sensor and won't stop unless their sales completely tank. It is really starting to seem like nothing but a total tanking of sales will get them to upgrade the low ISO image quality at this point.
It's much cheaper for them to update AF than the sensors.
Leaving out 4k seems brainless to me (although I guess the price on this isn;t bad at all, and maybe they didn't want 4k in the sub $2000 class).
The real test is the 5D4, if that uses an old sensor and lacks 4k 10bit 4:2:2 and 1080pRAW then forget it, they are cooked.
I guess they can maybe get away with the old sensor and no 4k for the 7D2 though, the AF should be amazing.
i guess the sub $2000 price kinda makes the 4k OK
It's not absolutely irrelevant. It's maybe not the most key thing for 7 series class. But don't forget that even wildlife and sports at times hit lighting where more DR at low ISO would help and much more, for some people this will be their one and only camera, they can't afford more than one or maybe don't want to carry two or three around at once, so this will also be their landscape camera as well.
So it's maybe not totally key for 7 series, but it's not exactly absolutely irrelevant either.
And it does hit the AF/speeds stuff ultra well.
Luuger: What was needed for the 7D mII:- 4K Video- Full frame- Wifi- Flexible screen- Touch screen- Resolution increase- Great AF- Better quality Sensor
What Canon brought was able to deliver:- Great AF
IMHO the responsible product developer should be fired immediately unless he had orders from above. Canon is not only harming its own brand, but the category of DSLR as itself.
If it was FF then it would lose the reach and one of the main points of the 7D series is reach. IMO if it were FF it would be much WORSE as a 7 series camera. You seem to be wanting the 1DX.
bronxbombers4: If this had arrived 2 years, awesome beyond belief. If it had arrived last year without 4k but with a new sensor, awesome! Now, arriving today, it's certainly quite nice in many respects, 10fps, perhaps AF better than 1DX (hopefully it's not just a lot of cross points, but GOOD cross points, the 7D had a lot of points but they were more xxD class than 1 series class), metering should be much better, so it should be a beast in those regard. If you don't do video and for all scenes that don't have a lot of dynamic range, on paper, it sounds like a really awesome performer and fantastic.
But crippling 4k out of it and not updating the sensor fab for DSLRs yet it a bit of a shame, at some point (already for video) this sort of action is gonna have to eventually start outright biting them. And the talk that they feel they have people trapped enough by their lenses that they can do stuff like this will eventually get too many fed up.
@KGW - then why have they not used any of the column on chip ADC patents or dual-iso reads for each pixel patents yet?What are they waiting for if they actually do have the advanced fab working on DSLR sensors?
brownie314: We all know that mirrorless AF systems are not as good as dedicated PDAF systems - for now. This will change soon. And when it does Canon and Nikon will have to stop making this sub-par crap and start making better featured cameras. OK, The D7100 is a good camera - but why just 6fps with almost no buffer - makes it useless to many shooters. This 7dmkii will be good also - an evolutionary camera from the 7D - but why the old sensor tech. Meanwhile, back at the bat cave - Samsung announces a body with 15fps, 205 AF points with 90% frame coverage and 4k video and - oh yeah a 28MP BSI CMOS sensor. Huh - wonder how long it will take for this to bite CaNikon right in the a$$.
@KGW - well the Canon doesn't deliver even the 12bit DR to begin with.
Zerg2905: Here is one for the 4K crowd:http://www.redsharknews.com/technology/item/1370-8k-is-not-the-future-of-tv-we-think-21-9-ultra-widescreen-is-instead
P. S.: I am wondering if for some people a Zenit 12 Mark II would be the perfect solution.
A little bit of letterboxing for 2.40:1 movies isn't that bad.Plus some movies are 1.85:1 or 1.9:1 or 2.1:1 and most TV is 16:9 (and old shows 4:3).And 2.40:1 starts getting to be pretty inefficient for use as a computer display.
MarshallG: I hope the final review determines whether the C1, C2, and C3 modes can save user settings when the camera goes to sleep. With the 7D, if you use one of those modes, nearly any setting change you make is lost if the camera sleeps. In my view, this made the C1-C3 settings useless on the 7D.
I'm sure it will have the auto-update option that the 5D3 has. That was a big plus over the 7D.
Metering linked to AF point, nice to see that drop down from 1 series.
Only oddity is the help points form a full box instead of just a diamond, hopefully they didn't extend the assists grab too much again as on the 7D. And "The sad thing is that, unlike the EOS 70D, the 7D II doesn't have a touchscreen. It may sound like an odd thing to look for in such a conventional DSLR but a touchscreen can be an excellent way to re-position the autofocus point during movie shooting, if you don't want to be reliant on the camera's own attempts at tracking or you actively want it to turn its attention to a new subject." which seems a bit silly. Why make a big deal about DPAF and then seemingly cripple it without touch screen.
They did finally give it a working AUtoISO though. It kinda ridiculous it took 15 years to dribble such a simple little thing out, but it is good to see it's here.
So at least all 1,5,7 should finally have proper AUtoISO from now on. That's good. Hopefully they just stick it Rebel through 1 series too, like everyone else.
the basic stills shooting body performance and UI specks look great
OK, on the main Canon USA site they did mention improved sensitivity and they did up the ISO 1/3 stop. So it might be a bit better for high ISO. So you are maybe a bit correct on that. Maybe we are lucky and it even manages 1/2 stop above the 70D, which would be impressive (all the talk about wanting it to be 1,2,3 stops better than the 70D is not realistic and in some cases not even physically possible). But the main release didn't seem to be bragging on it a lot so maybe it's more like 1/4 to 1/3 stop, we'll see.
They definitely don't mention anything about onchip ADCs or more DR though.