I wonder if this is an excuse to not put 4k in the 5D4. What? You can't complain about 4k for the consumer add our XC10!
(What? You shouldn't complain that the 5Ds has a bungled crop mode that provides nothing! If you want some speed and reach add our 7D2!
What? You can't complain the 5D4 MP count is modest! Add our 5Ds for landscapes (DR? lalalalalal we can't hear you, we can't hear you, lalalalalalalla) and 7D2 for reach action!)
Other than from a size aspect, which is a real matter true and something that will be legit critical for some absolutely, but other than for size, the BM Ursa Mini blows this away in every possible regard for only a little bit more money. It has a much bigger sensor, much fancier stuff built-in, the quick samples video from each make the IQ look much better too (of course it remains to be seen for sure), does 60p 4k, I think it does 150fps HD, I believe it does HD raw video too, it takes EF lenses, etc.
cgarrard: DPR- Glad you will keep pushing the raw issue as much as you can without hurting your relationship with Canon.
I'm not buying that answer Chuck! :)
Yeah, absurd! The fact is the sensor doesn't deliver a JPG right off it. The JPG is what takes a lot more power and coding to produce! Where do they think the JPGs come from? From an intermediate raw state of some sort which they then do a ton of processing on to produce the JPG.
An absurd answer that says they think their user base is still gullible.
" It’s easy enough to create a jpeg, but creating raw files would have required some different programming on the processor, which we decided was not a cost effective option."
Really so the sensor chip just magically delivers fully processed jpg images straight off the sensor???
The fact is, it's getting JPG out of a camera that adds more processing and coding requirements than RAW.
If the CW 5D4c rumor is correct and they deliver with it fully, Canon be back in the video game with that option though. The XC10 pricing/specs and 1DC and C300II do make one worried they won't quite totally deliver with the 5D4c, but if they do, that at least could bring them back in the game.
meland: This article has certainly brought out Those Who Are Truly Sad.
Darn just tried to delete my response, but missed the timing by 30 seconds.
I don't want to keep getting sucked down to the ugly level of the Canon gang who rules all the tech forums any more.
Mods, feel free to delete my two responses to Meland here.
XC10 still seem like a big deal??
For only 20% more money the new BM camcorder will deliver 4k 60p at 12 stops with fully decked usability features and pro connectors (things the Canon fanboys claim are so expensive they cost $20,000 to produce....) and 150fps 1080P RAW!
Oh and it will also take all of your Canon lenses!
Oh and it will also use an APS-C sized sensor instead of a 1" sensor!
So for only 20% more money it beats the XC10 on every single spec, often by miles, other than for it being a bit bulkier (it's not like the XC10 is GoPro portable though).
This is why some of us have been trying to wake Canon up and push them forward, not because we hate them, but because we have a sense of what is going on and what could be done. Acting all fanboy does not do any favors for any Canon user! It just lets Canon sit back and be lazy.
XC10:$24994k 30P1" sensorslow, fixed lens
BM URSA mini:$29994k 60p150fps HDhas a full-sized APS-C sensortakes Canon EF lenseslooks to have more pro connectors and features
(although it is true that you do need to add another $300 or so to the URSA price to give it a lens since it comes with no lens, so for someone with no Canon gear the entry price is more than 20% higher, for someone already with Canon lenses though....)(and yes the URSA is a bit bulkier and EF lens IS might not be quite as good for video IS as what will be in the XC10 perhaps for the non-tripod, hand-held without aid shots)
You refer to those like yourself who would rather pay $2500 for a 1" sensor, 30p 4k, slow fixed lens than $3000 for an APS-C sensor, 4k 60p, 150fps HD RAW and an EF mount and pro features and connectors, just because the former has the Canon name badge on it?
I probably should not have gone there and lowered myself to the same level as your whole gang you toss the personal insults non-stop for years, but I guess I did. Sorry.
Ben Stonewall: This thread should win some kind of prize for the sheer number of drooling, hate-filled trolls that have emerged from their Mom's basement to pour vitriol on a product that they'll never own, never mind use in any meaningful way.
Or maybe the 'drooling trolls' actually know what is up and how fast the market is moving and would rather see Canon be a player and than get by milking the fanboys company?
Look what just came out today from the competition:
(although it is true that you do need to add another $300 or so to the URSA price to give it a lens since it comes with no lens, so for someone with no Canon gear the entry price is more than 20% higher, for someone already with Canon lenses though....)
mpgxsvcd: I trust that the Panasonic 4K camcorder that will be announced today will get similar attention from Dpreview, right?
Or what about the new BM from today? Not a peep and yet this baby does 4k at 60p, 1080P RAW at 150fps!, takes Canon EF lenses, has a full-sized APS-C sensor, pro connectors and usability features and costs only 20% more than this XC10!
bronxbombers4: OK, so if Canon now uses some new fab that can produce a modern sensor, or has some deal for someone else to make certain sensors for them now, and they can get 15 stops at 4k.... then why the heck are they milking and crippling the 5Ds to pieces and uses and old 12.4 stop at 4k type sensor?? Why are they crippling the 5Ds with a ridiculous JPG only crop mode instead of making it well-rounded like a D810 where it goes to 7fps and large buffer in crop mode???
If they used the process they apparently used for the sensor in this they and stopped the product crippling games it seems they could have had the 5Ds be:
50MP with 15 stops DR (1/4-1/3 stop better than even the D810!)and 7fps, large buffer, small storage space for RAW APS-C mode to make it a nice all-around camera
instead they just give a cheap 7D2 sensor doubled and cripple the rest of the features
Well now there are rumors that it might be the dual-ISO patent after all and might be used in 5D4, so everything I said might be true after all. Remains to be seen.
bronxbombers4: The real question is does the 5D4 get this new sensor technology? (awesome if so, but man the 5Ds will look like an orphan quickly! other than for the MUST have MP and nothing else matter crowd). I guess Canon marketing wants to milk maximally so they hold back a new sensor and better body features for a 5Ds2 in a couple years. They give the better body features and new sensor to the 5D4 but hold back the resolution. They have to make sure to never give all they can at once so they can milk out an extra generation or two.
All that said, the sensor in this does potentially signal that Canon may not be entirely lost. It remains to be seen though. It will be interesting to find out how and if it really manages to deliver the 15 stops ad if Canon cares to ever bother using that tech for, you know, their DSLRs.
Bah, it seems like they might be using a special sort of read out that wouldn't work for stills. I mean maybe they did improve the sensor and use a new fab, but there is definitely not proof yet. it remains to be seen.
Bah, it seems like they might be using a special sort of read out that wouldn't work for stills. I mean maybe they did improve the sensor and use a new fab, but there is definitely not proof yet.
If they get it by multi-read off the sensor that is bad news then (but can they manage that will the amount of rolling shutter the Canon video stuff tends to have? not sure the timings on this one).
Yes, I already took 8MP into account. THINK YOURSELF maybe??? Did you not see where I specifically said all my DR numbers were at 4k normalized (i.e. 8MP sensor normalized)?
Well if they get to 15 by doing extra sampling, then is bad news. But can they get away with it (multi-samp) with a rolling shutter sensor? Not sure what the timings on this would be.
oselimg: For as far as I remember, with each new Canon model there are so many people here filed Canon for bankrupcy. I'm glad non of these idiots are managing Canon.
And when, 15 years from now, Canon is still stuck at 12-12.5 stops of DR and everyone else has 16 (at 8MP equiv) and Canon is still crippling everything under the sun will you still say that?
@thorn - I'm talking about the new sensor tech that has apparently allowed them to hit 15 stops dynamic range, i.e. match or slightly exceed Exmor. Hopefully it won't turn out to be something faked up or 15 stops only in HD mode, in which case, nothing new here either.
12bits and 4:4:4 have nothing to do with the sensor (also I should note that I can get 4:4:4 HD out of my 5D3 using Magic Lantern, and you can get 4:4:4 out of any DSLR that can run ML in RAW mode, even $800 ones, anyway this is not the stuff I was talking about, it's nothing to do with the sensor tech, but just what image processing chips they use and what they feel like allowing)