CameraLabTester: The only winners here are the consumers.
These guys are slugging it out for our approval and loyalty.
Keep on shouting, manufacturers:
"Are you not entertained?... are you not entertained?"
@YiannisPPThanks. I doubt if many people in Britain are buying them at all. We had fears of a double dip recession but I have now lost count of the dips.I expect the market here is mainly the top end earners so they are keeping the prices high as long as they can. In the US it pays to pile them high and sell them cheap. I think they like to sell to us at product end when the prices can drop significantly possibly more than the US as the lower income groups are more liable to buy the bargain stock. The X10 and X100 are ageing lines so they will have drooped in price. Fuji should be commended for the XF-1 price and probably uniquely do value the UK market and I hope they sell a few.
Well consumers in the US to be more precise. In the UK these lovely guys are slugging out to extract the most money they can from the punters, forget the exchange rate.
The RX100 owners are already struggling with this. The RX100 replaced the need for all other cameras and suggesting these smaller sensor cameras can compete on level terms is going to cause much angst and confusion.
Robert Eckerlin: I understand and appreciate that use of the excellent dpreview is free. Thanks for the excellence of the website.
I would appreciate however if the reviews of that class of camera would include information about the dynamic range (allowing me to compare the dynamic range of cameras of that class).
For me, the dynamic range (even for that type of cameras) is one of the most important criterias (other important charachteristics for me are of course the dimensions, the zoom-range, optical viewfinder, the visibility of the subject on the screen in bright/sunny environments,...)
Thank you in advance for considering that for future reviews
Techradar.com show dynamic range comparisons over all the ISO's on their reviews if you want to see this. In fact I have just noticed on the G15 review the XZ-2 is showing 12ev at 100 ISO in JPEG which is amazing and if correct would blow the opposition away. I agree with you that this is an important number but few reviewers quantify it.
Hubertus Bigend: I wonder why nobody seems to feel that the lack of a viewfinder is something to not like. Especially with travel zooms reaching up to 480 mm (eq.) or more, I cannot believe even half-serious telephoto shooting is possible at all; without a finder it is already improbable to even, well, /find/ a subject like, say, a bird in a tree.
If miniaturization will produce a travel zoom including a viewfinder at some point in time, that will probably be the first time I'll see myself inclined to perhaps replace my old Olympus C-70Z...
Sony knew the RX100 would sell just on the 1" sensor so there really was no need to add anything else. Hopefully they will continue the concept and better specified cameras will follow. As regards the VF-2 do a search in DPR 'vf2 rubber band' before buying one. The VF-3 is cheaper, locks in position and is perfectly adequate even if not as good optically as the VF-2.
neo_nights: So, even after they've stated clearly on the article that "compact = non-interchangeable lens camera" there are STILL (many) people complaining about it? Oh, the humanity!
Like someone cleverly said: there are compact cars, and yet you can't put them in your pocket... :)
@neo_nights/bobbarber. True enough and the Z200 aperture is impressive and I would actually swap my SX40 for one. It is just a silly issue over terminology. They say below have actually edited the description to clarify their intentions. It is all good fun and only words so enjoy your cameras whatever they are.
jsam: For Canon $1 = £1? We Brits are ripped off by Canon.
Why specifically Canon. From what I remember the Nikon P7700 started at a higher £ figure than the $ figure. I have never noticed that this is a feature of any specific manufacturer. They all seem to try it on for pre-orders and early take up. The XZ-2 seems to be at a more reasonable price but they seem to be arriving a bit late for the party.
Sir Punk: The comment section used to be a great place for constructive and insightful comments. Now it has become a place for whiners and harsh criticism. No review is going to please everybody and everything is up for debate. But why are these people wasting their time writing bashful destructive comments about the authors?
Negative comments are pointless and are not adding anything to the discussion.
I am sure the lists like the one above are created to stimulate the comments. All the list above says is that if you spend an enormous amount on a compact it will be better than a cheap one but IMHO you are very much into the realm of diminishing returns. My favourite little compact at the moment is a 230 Ixus which is actually compact and cost a fraction of what the cameras above cost, especially here in the UK where often £1 = $1, and gives results not a lot different to the above cameras with a bit of work. Sorry if I am so critical but it is difficult to take this seriously. I bought a XZ-1 and a P7100 to go compact but they were just nowhere as good as my Samsung NX100 and just not worth the money. I am not against compact cameras but think these high end cameras represent very poor value for money and squander the size advantage the small sensor gives.
The argument that you cannot put compact cars in your pocket could better be described as a specious one. I still find it difficult to associate the meaning of the word compact in the normal useage of the English language with my heavy , large and cumbersome SX40 which is a similar size and weight to the FZ200 but at least has a long zoom. Photography seems to have turned the word into something entirely different which has nothing to do with size apparently. I would describe the SX20 as compact as that was very nice to handle but the current crop of bloated bridge cameras seem anything but. As compact as a cane toad methinks. The irony is you can get cameras with the same amount of zoom as the FZ200 which you can put in your pockets.
vapentaxuser: Does anybody know when the Oly XZ-2 is supposed to start shipping in the US? I initially heard late October but can't find a firm ship date for the camera now.
It looks like Olympus XZ-2 announcement has been rushed as the new spate of fast aperture cameras being released has really taken the wind out of its sails. It has finally put a decent image and video engine behind the excellent lens but is all a bit too late.
Edgar Matias: Great cameras all, but I don't see how the FZ200 could be considered a compact camera. It's the size of a DSLR.
@neo_nights. I have a Canon SX40 which is a similar size and I could not fit it into any pocket of any clothing I have. In fact a GF3 with the 14-42X lens or a Nikon V1 would be easier to put in a pocket and that has an interchangeable lens. Not following yours or DPR's logic I am afraid in describing this great lump of a camera as compact.
gl2k: Hotshoe, 1/4000 high speed sync speed, 25mm wide angle and const. f2.8That alone makes it an outstanding P&S that outclasses many mirrorless m4/3 and APS-C cameras.
Well done !!!
@bobbarber. DOF is only one factor amongst many and not a great problem with the standard kit lens especially compared to a fast fixed f2.8 long zoom camera like this. To call these cameras point and shoot just makes no sense as blown highlights and black shadows are as big a problem with these small sensor cameras as focus depth. In my experience the smaller the sensor the less point and shoot it is.
Airless: The review said "Panasonic did almost everything right" and "With a few refinements in design and image quality, the camera would be darn close to perfect." So why did it only get 80%? If a camera that had "everything right" would get 100% then how does one get just 80% that has almost everything right and a lacking only "refinements" to be "darn close to perfect"?
Mea Culpa. The SX50 results are in the review. Good to see. Apologies. I will get my coat.
@gl2k. In what way is this camera a point and shoot? These small sensor cameras need a lot more intervention to get good results than any DSLR or CSC. Can you explain what you mean? Large sensor cameras with their greater dynamic range, more focusing points and more sophisticated exposure evaluation are much easier to use if you just want to point and shoot. I am interested in why you classify this camera as point and shoot?
It does have a fairly limited zoom for such a large body. Panasonic have given a wide aperture to offset this but this is by modern standards a travel zoom compact in a super zoom dslr sized body. It is not by any standards a super zoom anymore with 1.2 metre now attained by the SX50 though there will be no comparison as DPR have stopped testing the Canon equivalents since the SX20. DPR have tested the 1 metre Nikon P510 though so they should know what a super zoom is.
I bet Time magazine never realised what hysteria they would cause in certain circles by this announcement. Do not forget that the Time people like most are not really interested how the camera works, but in their opinion, think it does perform a lot better for its size than anything they have seen before.
Posterity proves the worth of things and these contemporary awards will be forgotten next year and are often primarily driven by the vanity of the people handing them out.
qwertyasdf: On a previous lens roadmap, Samsung indicated a 55/1.8 pancake.It turned out to be a cupcake.
The following lens are on the roadmap for the 2nd half of 2012 lol...80-400mm f/4-5.6 OIS SSA iFn135mm f/2 OIS SSA iFn24mm f/1.8 ED SSA iFn
Personally I would hope they ditch the 135/2, which translates to 202.5mm
Samsung use leaks and rumours to keep up interest in the system and make it look like there are more lenses than actually exist. Their 16-80 lens for example was actually officially announced in DPR in February 2011 for delivery Dec 2011. It has never been officially cancelled and Park Cameras in the UK still have it up for sale (at £9,999 crossed out) as awaiting stock. Samsung have leaked that it has been cancelled but as far as I am aware have never officially stated this.
iudex: First of all I must say I do not mind the look of V2; I do not buy cameras because they look nice, but because they take good pictures.But...The V2 is as big as mirrorless competition with APS-C.The V2 is as expensive as mirrorless competition with APS-C.I don´t get such good pictures from 1" sensor that I get from the APS-C.So why the he.l should I buy a V2 instead of an APS-C camera?
The size of the lenses?
Edit: Parallel post with iudex: aps-c goes pear shaped with longer focal lengths.
The camera shown does look a bit of a dog's dinner. There must be a law of diminishing returns where there are so many controls that there will be a problem remembering what they do and where they are and what needs the menus, plus what they do in different modes and how you have left them and having to constantly turn the camera to access them. This is when a menu becomes a better option especially as a reset is a lot easier than returning switches to a default condition. Thanks for showing this camera as it has cured me of the idea that menu driven cameras are necessarily a bad thing.
KingDon: RX100 was a game changer. No one is even interested now in the new 1/1.7" cameras like EX2, LX7, S110. RX100 is is responsible for that shift in expectation.
It will be late 2013 or early 2014 before other camera makers have a response to RX100.
Obviously Sony were a bit daft in just releasing a 1/1.7" sensor for a format that has zero interest. Presumably you are anticipating zero sales for these cameras as that is what no one means. I have a feeling that people are buying these cameras and the predictions that the RX100 replaced every other camera in existence were a bit exaggerated, though still being promulgated. Heaven help anyone who dares suggest another camera may be better than the RX100 in their own brand x forum, they will instantly be called an x brand fanboy.