Greynerd: Is it just me but is it difficult to see any real difference between any of these cameras in daylight regardless of price or sensor size?Probably I have got the wrong electron microscope.I am sure you could get pictures similar to this from a Canon Ixus (other brands are available).
If you are just taking data of the sensor directly as RAW data it matters even less what camera you have wrapped around the sensor apart from the lens. You can get Leica lenses in cheap Panasonics so it is all difficult to understand what this camera is for, particularly for a RAW enthusiast.
Is it just me but is it difficult to see any real difference between any of these cameras in daylight regardless of price or sensor size?Probably I have got the wrong electron microscope.I am sure you could get pictures similar to this from a Canon Ixus (other brands are available).
Sad Joe: Well, I love my TWO EOS-M's and look forward to buying an EOS-M3 when I can afford one ! 35 f1.4 BR - responding to the Sigma and Zeiss otus ? Now that will be an interesting review which I look forward to. Just one minor note - in the UK BR used to stand for British Rail which wasn't very good and its sandwiches were renowned for being expensive and terrible. Perhaps Canon should reconsider their BR tag ? LOL.
BR were cheaper both for the passenger and the government, more punctual and a national integrated service. You cannot really think the current dirty, money grubbing, shambolic, fragmented, arrest you if you have the wrong ticket for the wrong train in the wrong area, privatised railway system today is an improvement.
Edit: Whenever I go on a holiday to the Rhine I always think of the British rail system as travelling across Britain now is like a trip up the medieval Rhine, with the robber barons in the castles, represented by the board of directors of all the different private train companies waiting to rob you as you pass through their territory on your perilous trip. They have had to renationalise the rail infrastructure company as it just did not work.
Mike FL: So, in terms of SNR, the old and small SONY sensor beats the newer and larger SONY sensor.
Per DPR, "but the fact that the E-M10 II is holding up this well to a class-leading APS-C is interesting. The E-M10 II fairs remarkably well against the Sony a6000, which we find to be a bit of an under-performer with respect to low light image quality." based on DPR's lab test.
By looking DPR's lab test results, it is.
Also, the E-M10 II makes the old sensor beating down all the Oly with same sensors.
Of course, E-M10 II beats all Panasonic as it almost matches the SNR of Nikon D5500.
Is it true? Yes. by just looking E-M10 II's test results in DPR's Comparison tool.
It is a fact of life that Sony will use any sensor improvement to put in extra mega pixels. It is pure marketing and only geared to printing specifications on the camera box. As long as image quality is not too badly affected it is not really of any relevance.
Ramjager: Firstly the headline is completely inaccurate as the article clearly points out that the number of subconditions for which you place on this superior performance is so massive that perhaps a better title would be "DLSR AF performance is still superior to A7II except when using F2 lenses".Feel free to glorify the poor Sony A7 all you like but please at least have the respect for those with some photographic experience to do it accurately..Well bring your A7 and a 400mm lens and come take photos with me in the dark. If your A7 can perform as well as a 1DX then you can change your title to A7II beats DSLR AF performance.If not how about you write an article that current DSLR's in poor light combined with difficult weather beat mirrorless cameras..http://www.vortexaviationphotography.com/Civil-Aviation-Photography/Anchorage/i-fgPSnPc/0/L/IMG_9352-2-L.jpghttp://www.vortexaviationphotography.com/Civil-Aviation-Photography/Los-Angeles-2013/i-FsQ26w4/1/XL/IMG_8962-XL.jpg
I would not really describe the A7 R II as poor considering the Canon 1DX needs a pretty gigantic box to fit the workings required to achieve its performance with Canon so firmly mired in past glories. The old technology can only outdo the new technology when size is disproportionally increased.
matthew saville: I will always remember a set of presentations given by a bunch of camera reps at an art school I snuck into to audit. The Nikon guy talked about their fancy new LBCAST technology, (yeah, I'm probably a little older than you) and Canon talked about their fancy new AF technology.
The Leica rep walked out to the center of the stage, put the camera on the ground, and then put his full weight on it with one heel.
"I bet the other guys didn't do this, did they?"
(Camera still clicked a few photos, of course, and the guy continued to give a presentation that I have since forgotten the rest of...)
Yes but you have to select the particular Leica carefully for this. I myself would be reluctant to stand on the Leica D Lux (Type 109) as it may stand up to this treatment no better than its Panasonic LX100 clone.
Flashback: So nothing magical inside the a7RII, just the usual bevy of silicon chips doing all the work.
Sony will be making a shed load of money on these, until we have some serious competition.
For pity's sake Canon and Nikon, wake up and get cracking...
That is a problem Sony have in that Canon and Nikon have this reputation for durability and taking the knocks whereas there is always the feeling at the back of your mind, rightly or wrongly, that the Sony in 5 years is going to look like the final shot in this teardown without needing any screwdrivers. The problem it is all so new and experimental that you just cannot see how it will fare over the course of time.
Zero polycabonate: Hey look, another A7RII DPR article...
@Barney BrittonThe economic recovery must be well advanced for a £2,500 camera to be the most popular. This is good news.
lxcellent: Why is this not offered as body only!
My local Currys is offering this as body only. Sitting there forlornly cap off with its sensor soaking up the dust. You can see they are struggling to display mirrorless cameras which were an affordable option to the general public. For mirrorless they had 7 DSLR's well specified cameras which were Canon and Nikon and 3 mirrorless. The Sony 5100 and a Fuji, both more expensive than a few of the DSLR's and without EVF's and generally basic looking plus the G7 which was more expensive than all the other cameras but without a lens; with a lens it just would not have been competitively priced. I am sure there are reasons for the price but to the general public mirrorless must seem a lot of money for very little in return.
Edgar_in_Indy: So Panasonic lens firmware can be updated from the camera? That's kind of cool. Do a lot of other camera makers allow users to update their lens firmware that way?
@straylightrunI suspect my comment that they might like building obsolescence in to these lens fired off the conspiracy theory post. No company would of course think of such a thing so the idea that they might could constitute conspiratorial thinking.
The main purpose of lens firmware is to avoid having in the brave new mirrorless world lots of old legacy lenses floating around in use for donkey's years as with DSLR and SLR lenses. :(
brownie314: I think with the cell phone eroding the bottom end photographic products we are beginning to see the true size of what the photographic market of the future will be. 10 years ago you HAD to buy a camera to get an image. Today, you do not. So the people buying cameras today truly care about what their images look like. We will see how big that market is.
I doubt if it is just the bottom end is suffering as the middle end cameras improving will erode the ILC's in general. There are also a lot of kit only DSLR users who are just as likely to find their phone does the job.I think the camera market as a whole will decline. I doubt if any sector is safe apart from that selling to people needing the utmost high quality.
Ben O Connor: It took 12 Pen (E-P1,2,3,5 E-PL1,2,3,5,6,7 E-PM1,2) and 4 OMD (E-M5,5II, 1, 10) models to put things back in track since 2008!
Wow Olympus. Way to go!
The policy of Olympus to woo the DSLR owner to mirrorless by stripping down the camera to a shutter button and leaving only those basic controls essential to wade around the menus, plus dropping the viewfinder altogether, is still a great unsolved mystery.
Just a Photographer: Now all mirrorless camera manufacturers are profitable.Sony, Fuji and now Olympus all presented black figures recently for their imaging business.
While Nikon and Canon are suffering. Its not that these DSLR manufacturers make losses on selling systems, but they do loose heavily in profitability and marketshare over the recent years.
Times are changing.
A selective choice for all. I think your post reads more as all mirrorless brands making a profit are making a profit.I do not get the impression that Samsung are doing so well at the moment.
Franco8: Why do you call it a full frame its a 35mm sensor. A APSC sensor is a full frame APSC sensor.A 4/3 sensor is a full frame 4/3 sensor.Just call it as it is a 35mm sensor
Full frame is a marketing dream as it implies perfection. The emphasis on this format is probably because there is a ready made advertising slogan rather than any intrinsic benefits in the format. Who wants partial frame?
I wonder if the number of people who want to go through the process of swapping lenses on a camera is diminishing. Now that large sensors are going in to long zoom fixed lenses cameras this probably will be having an affect. These top end fixed lens cameras may be nibbling away at the ILC sector as much as smartphones are nibbling away at the entry level compacts.There will always be an appeal for ILC cameras but probably not the sort of mass appeal needed to sustain the current ever swelling different lens mount bubble.
Semperfed: Another Canon camera without the one feature I look for: a shutter button with a screw thread to hook up a shutter cable with.
There is a massive cost differential between a shutter cable and having to buy or rent a smartphone to do it. There is no battery on shutter cables to go flat either or a link to drop or a password etc. etc.
abi170845: 1000 buck with no charger included? I will stick to my 100D.
It is difficult to imagine how someone can pay out all this money on a camera yet find buying an external charger breaks the bank.
gillesvds: Please Sony, give us this Auto ISO enhancement (customizable threshold) in a firmware update for A6000's users.
I would not think you can expect firmware enhancements with the A6000. This camera shows Sony are dumbing down the aps-c range so they would not want to undermine the next release.
Elliot H: with such a high rating, jpeg(which most users will use) imagequality rating is not that high
@BarnETIf you spend $1,000 on a camera wouldn't you expect it to be able do the work for you competently rather than having to take the RAW image off the sensor and do it all yourself?