armandino: I am not sure if I want the 5DS or the A7rII. From many points of views the Sony has an interesting offerings. A few things worry me though:1) ruggedness: especially sensor wise. Talking to repair shops in body IS is far more prone to failure on camera shock. Sony cameras are very expensive to repair in this regard. BSI is even more fragile than a conventional sensor.2) Resale value. True the Canon will set you back considerably more to start with. My experience with Sony in this regard is not promising though.3) Service. Sony vs Canon?4) Product integration. Good to see that I should be able to use Canon glass more effectively. Still not quite the same, cannot share dedicated flash etc. Just thinking loud here.
for what I understand, it takes shipping to Sony and a lot of money too. Shutter replacement is not that expensive and it will not break on a camera drop, IBIS not so and the repair bill is steep. My 5DIII had at least 3 spectacular impacts, still churning away and its shutter count is well past the 200,000.
I am not sure if I want the 5DS or the A7rII. From many points of views the Sony has an interesting offerings. A few things worry me though:1) ruggedness: especially sensor wise. Talking to repair shops in body IS is far more prone to failure on camera shock. Sony cameras are very expensive to repair in this regard. BSI is even more fragile than a conventional sensor.2) Resale value. True the Canon will set you back considerably more to start with. My experience with Sony in this regard is not promising though.3) Service. Sony vs Canon?4) Product integration. Good to see that I should be able to use Canon glass more effectively. Still not quite the same, cannot share dedicated flash etc. Just thinking loud here.
nicolaiecostel: The 7D mk2 is an action camera. With 10 fps and class leading auto focus, the camera is forgiven for low DR and not that good high ISO performance.
In contrast, a camera like the D800E or D810 is a slow, high megapixel camera with great image quality made especially for applications where a great image with lots of detail is required.
What canon has done is it has made a D810 style camera with the upscaled 7Dmk2 sensor.
And this just doesn't make any sense.
I have used the 6D for a wedding and it was truly a pleasure. I worked many years with Canon pro bodies and I am familiar with their capabilities, with the 6D as long as you stick with the centre AF there is absolutely nothing to complain about. I think too often people judge cameras on a spec sheet. Take them out for a test before you think you know it all.
@K E Hoffman if you are a pro which means you make money out of it the financial proposition is VERY important. If you are a wealthy hobbit I might even recommend the Hasselblad Lunar?The 5DIII has a very tough body all rounded camera integrated in the most advanced camera system (together with Nikon) with proper ergonomics. If you are a pro also you know how to proper expose the wedding dress, sorry. Sony outdated cameras are worthless. And they get there fast.
Although having more DR is nothing but beneficial, I find it funny that these days I see often worse pictures from cameras with more malleable files. I find photographer over manipulating the images just because the can with much more artificial looking results. I see this all the times, a lot coming from D600 and D750 cameras.With great powers great responsibilities, just because you can does not mean you have to :-) I love when my pictures are just right straight out of the camera, that is my most successful and rewarding photography.
Sonylover1: Long time user of Sony (F828, R1, Nex7, Rx100) and Canon (T90, 40D, 7D, 1DsIII) I am more and more impressed by Nikon 810 and the latest development by Sony.
Canon 5D S or R, little difference, both need AAfilter are no match for Nikon 810. And we havent seen Sony A7RII yet! Disappointed.
Canon have the best Lenslineup beside Nikon. They should open up for cooperation with Sony and admit use of their lensring.The best of both world and Canonlenses would flood the market.
I am in love with my Canons but as a Sonylover I cant dream of a more innovative manufacturer than Sony.
I find statements such as "Canon 5D S or R, little difference, both need AAfilter are no match for Nikon 810" quite amusing and narrow minded.Have you used them both? I mean, did you take them both in the studio or for field work?Based on common experience it seems obvious that if someone frequently needs lots of DR the D810 has more to offer. However for most common applications if shear resolution is what is in demand the 5DS is likely the better offering. Not to mention that photographer might have different preferences in the ergonomics. Things might look different when the D8XX will receive the 42.5MP sensor.
futile32: Looks good to me, better than I think people suspected. Curious to see how it scored on DXO
me too, my guess is 85-89
rpm40: Is the difference in the filters really enough to need/justify two different models? Seems like an unnecessary waste of resources to me.
Canon could have been there earlier, but saying it is late I think it is not right. Now it is not late at all, it seems to me that majority out there thinks that 50 MP is obscene and many swear by 16 "good" MP. It think times are just maturing for such market and this camera is ready when finally all the critical glass has been updated to match the massive resolution. Overall I prefer the Canon strategy, beside the incomprehensible attachment to old design sensors. I have hard time understand the logic of Nikon cameras specs random scatter.
@TrojMacReady A7s is only one year old. As soon as good 4K and electronic shutter goes mainstream its value will drop dead. Weak in every other regard including lousy ergonomics. I am actually pretty disappointed it got a gold here on DPr, but hey sort of expected as they are all giggly about Sony innovation. I am curios to see what it is going to happen already when the A7rII hits the market. Sony has more of an electronics consumer trend than pro camera market for a reason.
Nukunukoo: Good Lord, why are people so obsessed with taking photos above ISO 6400? Maybe you guys should take off that ND 16 filter off your lens!!!
@Nukunukoo I agree with you above 6400 or maybe 12800 the image just looks passable, but for some type of photography there is just no choice and that is why for who shoots a lot at high iso one stop gain is huge and is so animated about iso performance.
@broody sony cameras do not hold value at all, look at the history, look at what used A7 cameras go for. That is because they turn quickly obsolete, and lack of a proper service associated with a less rugged construction. That is actually one more reason for professionals not to invest in Sony bodies, worse investment.
True Sony sensor has more to offer but at the end of the day the camera choice comes down to more than DR and iso invariance. Ergonomics, built quality, service, integration with an industry leader and 3rd party accessory compatibility go a much longer distance than a mere DR and iso invariance. Under some circumstance the A7r might be able to replace the 5DSr , and I am actually considering it, however the 5DS is a far more compelling camera for all rounded professional work and definitely the safest bet. It feels good to have the most capable sensor tech, however at the end of the day all you need is what is good enough and the 5DS is more than adequate with class leading resolution in a very compelling package. This is way this is going to be a very successful camera among pros.
@ drivecancelthe 5DS sensor is based on the 7DII that is not bad at all in noise performance. Actually the sensor efficiency is right up there. I bet that 5DSr will come up with the best low-light scoring on DXO yet. And possibly the A7rII will take the crown away from it right after. Your "modern sensor that can shoot cleanly at ISO 12800" assertion is either arrogant or incompetent.
Sure guys, you are all right. But this camera does not target that audience, it was a clear statement, if you need low light 5DS is not design for you. If you need speed on the highway buy a sportcar, if you need space buy a truck. Is this hard or we just love arguing for the sake of it?
ttran88: One of the most overlooked spec of this camera is the EVF. It's rated .78x most FF dslrs are at .71x only. It's even bigger than the XT-1's great EVF. This EVF will be a joy to use and compose.
I am very attracted to this feature indeed. I am really unsure if I want this camera or the Canon 5DSr. I think I really wanted the 5DS with this Sony sensor and the 1DX OVF and controls. It think it might come down to how well the A7R will drive the Canon AF lenses, the new ergonomics are not stellar but workable enough that I will not be swearing every second to myself why I did not buy the 5DS...
Dougbm_2: Now they need to do the Possible.
Panasonic has large sensors paranoia
forpetessake: Sony is soon going to make Canon a third party lens manufacturer.
@ forpetessake I recommend posting in sober state.
@ ZeisschenI use an A7R and a A6000, together with my 1DX, 5DIII, and a 7DII.I think I got a pretty good insight of how Sony mirrorless are when compared to Canon DSLR bodies ;-)
Canon bodies are far superior than Sony. Long way from being third party lens supplier. Sony has nice sensors, if that is going to create a problem to Canon market, Canon will either step up the game or simply buy Sony sensors. As market leader, Canon picks up slack when needed.
tmurph: This is a jewel of a camera, I changed to mirrorless last year and have had no regrets. I hope that Panasonic and Olympus are watching and hopefully develop a new sensor and get rid of the oh so long in the tooth 16 mil they offer at the moment.Sony are to be congratulated on pushing the mirrorless camera up to another level.Alpha dog indeed.
@HowaboutRAWI know you are a noise nerd. For the majority of the rest of us humans the difference in noise performance between 16MP and 50MP when downsampled is irrelevant unless really cranking up the iso. And even if possibly more noisy, they still retain more details. Also, higher resolution cameras will benefit from BSI more.