ProfHankD: Yes, Canon has been serious about mirrorless in that the EOS-M is grossly inferior to their DSLRs only in AF speed and ergonomics. The problem is that it isn't compelling against models from Sony, Olympus, Fuji, Samsung, etc. Canon was once an innovator, but not lately, and they have a long way to go to make a compelling mirrorless. For example, I don't think a 7D Mark II with an EF-M mount would be a very compelling mirrorless, and it has been years since Canon's sensors gave them an real edge over those made by Sony.
I buy lots of Canon cameras, mostly PowerShots to use with CHDK, but also an occasional higher model to use with Magic Lantern. Ironically, both those environments are conspicuously not aided or supported by Canon. I think it is long overdue that Canon should encourage, and actively leverage, this type of external innovation.
Samsung is no giant in the camera industry, and hardly any experience in it. Cameras are largely mechanical with very complex optical systems. Cellphones are a screen, a circuit board, a battery. Mechanical systems have much slower evolutionary cycles. Sorry, Samsung lover, you will have to wait a long time so see your dream come through. If ever. Maybe in 2 years Samsung will find a different market, more lucrative, then bye bye cameras!
AksCT: Is Buffer Depth actually " 1090 JPEG"? or it is 109
Not clear to me where you are heading with this....
armandino: After reading so many silly negative posts on this camera I feel to say:this is not a camera for everyone, it is designed for a specific application and it approaches professional specifications and grade in this regard. In my opinion it is next to perfect on paper for the application in mind (sport/wildlife), granted a tack better sensor would have made it shine more.For people whining that it does not have this or that:this is clearly not the camera for you, yet if you are unable to appreciate this tool it is your loss and a proof of your scarce ability in understanding the purpose of such tool. You do not complain that a Ferrari F40 does not have air conditioning, if you do you are the idiot, not the engineers behind Ferrari. In my opinion in its segment nothing touches this camera, once combined with the arsenal of gear Canon has to offer. Nikon is the only brand that could match it, but at this time it can only overkill with the D4s, nothing else.
@ Scottelly,clearly you are not sport photographer, so why do you criticize something you are not expert of? You look like a fool.1) Sony does not make DSLRs anymore so it is not even in the same league in sport photography2) Sony is no match for glass especially for sport photography3) The thick full metal body does not allow for a proper built in wifi. Have you ever heard of Faraday Cage? Clearly a rugged body has priority over wifi and if it was for me, it should lose the pop up flash too. Just like rightfully does not have a flip out screen. Please educate yourself before opening your mouth or touching your keyboard.
armandino: Trying sport photography with a mirrorless is a bit like trying replacing a laptop with a tablet: nice idea , but things are not quite there yet. Somebody will try very hard with their Surface or iPad, and they will swear by it, but it is not quite working for the rest of us.Please do not compare this camera with mirrorless option, if you do you probably do not understand sport photography.
you might as well shoot still then, more flexible. You can capture raw and higher resolution. 4K raw is not trivial, and you are still limited to 8MP. What guarantees that the focus is tracking at 30fps?Video at 1/1000? That is not video anymore, but just a very fast camera (likely mirrorless), you might want to collect your frames independently too with a better compression each or no compression at all (raw).
Black Box: I just cannot believe they pay 64 million US dollars in salary alone to the person SO detached from his company's problems! At least now we can see why Canon is so behind on ALL fronts, including market niches they created. Unless they retire this dinosaur the only way for Canon is down.
Black Box is clueless
@ ProfHankDSuccessful engineering is a fine recipe, result of decades of experience, do not assume that anybody can hop on board and start making high end camera systems out of nothing. Sure they can reverse engineer other's companies work but that would put them still behind. That is why Sony bough out Minolta, to have a jump start. Still Sony systems lack the usability of Nikon and Canon because of the lack of experience in the field. Cameras are not like smartphones, there is a lot more in them and a lot more inertia from the user community.Who thinks that Nikon and Canon are sleeping giants and they will be displaced soon by more innovative brands make me smile. Sure the know little about serious photography business a touch naive I think.Samsung? long way to go! A good looking camera with wonderful specifications on paper? Such a classic Samsung product.Besides, Samsung marketing strategy is very opportunistic, you do not build a good reputation that way neither loyal customers
@ badiyou are actually substantiating my point. Tablet took off because the pricing is right, while is not the case for the mirrorless. Most tablet priced similarly to decent laptops did not take off at all. Mirrorless systems are priced so that are too expensive for the casual shooter while they do not have much to offer besides portability to higher end users. As much as tablets are flooding the market, they are only used to consume media, not for productivity by the normal user. So they are not replacing the laptops, just complementing them.
dealing with frame extraction is not as trivial as it seems. For smooth video you need slow shutter speed, like 1/60, so frame extraction is worthy only for slow moving objects. If you kick up your shutter speed your video is useless, then you may as well take stills. So for high frame rate I think that actually mirrorless have future because there of the limit imposed by the mirror black out.
utomo99: I will wait for your next products. I hope the mirrorles is really good.
Dear T3,BarnET bashes any Canon product, check out his comments on the 7DII. I am not a Canon salesperson, I would take defence of Nikon or any other brand if I see depressed people bashing products just for the sake of it, or for their ignorance. Note that ignorance in photography is not so much from not reading cameras specs or forums, but real photographic experience. Canon M might have been a bit pricey at the beginning, but most canon products tend to drop price over time, and canon M leverages a much cheaper lens selection (cost wise) and full EF integration. Sorry buddy But I rather spend the money on an M and use it with my following EF lenses if I want to:15 fisheye, 14mm L,16-35/2.8L24-70/2.8L24-104/4L24/1.4L35/1.4 sigma85/1.2L100/2.8 Macro135/2L70-200/2.8L300/4L300/2.8L120-300/2.8 sigma500/4 L580X, 430x flashesand yes I would not mind the original M 22/2.0 pancake, the most useful walk around lens on a mirrorless, yet such a hard catch in other systems.
Aroart: Ok now here's a fact..I was on a pro video shoot strictly as backup b role with a 70d. The other cameras were 5dm3 and c100.. I tried to convince the pros that my panasonic gx7 can be added in the shoot..they laughed at this tiny camera...at the end of the day I handed some footage from both and they saw that it smoked both the 70d and 5dm3.. The image were closer to c100 standards..oh forgot to mention it had 60p...but the reality is all the pros don't want to change there system set up with all there glass..canon knows that and will make changes as they see fit.............ohh and no mirrorless can hold a candle to sports photography...fact....video yes...photography not yet....getting close....
I guess no magic lantern with your buddies ;-)
armandino: Canon M system:Camera + 22/2.0 $31111-22mm $40018-55mm $10922/2.0 $11955-250mm $400adapter for EF $100
The canon M is designed for basic functionality and unfortunately a non competitive focus speed. Yet you can buy a whole system for the price of a mid range mirrorless. If AF speed and EVF are not your concern this is an excellent proposition. It also underlines the most obvious of the issues with the hyped mirrorless systems: they are overpriced.
Look at the system as a whole. You cannot get inexpensive lenses in any mirrorless system. If you want decent optics on any mirrorless system it is a financial nonsense, only exception for the M system. I am also attracted to the mirrorless systems for portability, but the moment I look at worthy pieces of glass to attach at the front of the camera I shake my head. They are all crop sensors at best after all (made exception of the A7, which lens selection sucks anyway).When you say "others care a lot ". Who are the others? the few hardcore that think "mirrorless is the best thing ever", a small niche. Most buying a mirrorless they will get it with the kit lens, and maybe a second lens at best, because of the above issue: they just cost too much. Compared to DSLRs mirrorless are a financially silly proposition. The fact that some still buy does not exclude the validity of this statement, we all not always make the most valid financial choices do we?
Eleson: Does the mount of eos-m allow for FF?
ah, I never though that as a possible question, sorry if I misunderstood. Obviously not, try to picture a x2 size sensor behind the mount:http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/G/03/electronics/aplus/image3-large.jpg
BarnET: How would you characterize the typical EOS 7D owner?
The user profile of 7D owners is ‘high amateur’ and enthusiasts who want high framerates and professional photographers who want a lightweight, fast camera. And also anyone who doesn’t want to carry something big and heavy.
http://camerasize.com/compact/#568.303,520.359,ha,tjust for reference the mirrorless equivelant.
The Canon weighs almost 1 Kg more with the roughly similar image quality.great. Yeah I would consider it for not buying something heavy.
Besides I want Wifi which makes the 7D mk2 even more bulky with that 849 Wifi grip smacked on the bottom.
Yes, it is a camera for one purpose, that is always been for the 7D. Never intended to be a swiss army knife. This camera screams that yet people complain it is not a swiss knife. It is not supposed to be.Why no other functionalities? Easy:1) Might compromise some of what it is designed for. Ie. WiFi requiring a lighter construction2) Product cannibalization. That is something Canon is very good at and Nikon is absolutely not.
I have not heard from you yet your credentials, you are saying you are a more all rounded than me. So I guess you own a photo studio like me, shoot also with MF cameras like me, weddings, etc...
ok, now I want to see a 24/1.4.....
Marksphoto: Is anybody using a 50mm lens?
actually I do not use it, my most used lenses when not shooting sports:1) 70-200/2.82) 35/1.43) 85/1.2on FF cameras
donmcmahan: Sigma's long standing problem has been quality control and consistency, they could design good lenses but go on to build a rather significant proportion of them that were not quite right.......I hope they have cracked it.
I love my 2 brand new sigma lenses. I love the image out of them, the feel, and the look. Both needed to be sent out for repair just a few months old. I own Canon glass by buckets, mostly purchased used. Some 10-15 years old. Never had to repair a single lens. Good that Sigma offers a 7 year warranty, otherwise I would not buy even if I love the product.
For BarnET any reason is a good reason to argue, sounds like.7D too heavy for the purpose? Do you even know what are you talking about? The 7D is just where I expected to be in weight. If it claims to be what it is.the 70D is not a dedicated SPORT camera the 7D is trailing only the 1DX and the D4s in this regard. Sport photographers will buy because its an affordable additional sport performing body, the extra reach, AND light weight compared to the 1DX. Handling the 7D+300/2.8 with no support is far easier that a 1DX+300/2.8.How do I know? because I AM A SPORT PHOTOGRAPHER and I will likely buy this camera to complement the rest of my gear when I shoot the MLS games. What are your credentials for all the BS you are typing?
To be perfectly honest, very few have a good reason to buy in a mirrorless system. For the majority they can just afford to spend extra for the luxury of a slightly reduced form factor, on a system that will come down in price eventually. Not a good investment. Mirrorless these days are a bit like the tablet market, you either make the iPad or everyone else's looses, because it is just a luxury that very few need. If you want to get the work done you buy a laptop not a tablet, which is a good entertainment and a poor investment. Analogy works for mirrorless and DSLRs. I think Canon is doing the smart move, I am sure that they will jump in when the market is ready for real. Get in now? why? The pie is small, margins are small, market direction unclear.
JohnMatrix: My first question would have been:
So Mr Maeda, enough about cameras. Why after 21 years do we still have the same old 50mm f1.4 EF lens in the Canon line up?
Answer: Because if you want modern optics and AF in your 50mm we want you to spend three times as much and buy the f1.2L instead.
ahah! you are so right!
Canon seems to prove this wrong though. And even if you are right I am looking at it from a customer point of view with DSLRs as an option, I cannot care less if it costs more to make them, that is a manufacturer's problem, not users problem.