OldZorki: When actually DP1 Merill will be out? As a lot of people (including Sigma fanboys) pointed out, the camera hardly usable for anything else but landscapes. If that is the case, 28mm is way more desirable FL then 45mm.
>lxstorm - I find you comment to be kind of silly. Good because we, who are not glad to pay 10,000USD for a 2,300USD item, are misinformed, ignorant and capable for impotently jealous opinions only.
>this Sigma 30mm is available for NEX and considered to be the sharpest lens available for the platform, regardless of name on the lens
Sure. Say it again on Leica forum. LOL
>Sigma are a photographic company not a consumer electronics company.
Does not matter that is was Sony that pioneered digital imaging or Sony Cine ALta was used for Star Wars shooting by Lucas.Sony is just a consumer electronic company LOL
>They also own one of the most innovative sensors around which is found in this camera.Really, what is so special about it?
Using silicon for color separation? silicon is bad for color filters.
Absence of microlenses arrays? bad for hi iso imaging.
Low quantities manufacturing ? bad for customers despite it is lucking major futures it is yet expensive to make.
veroman: As one who has owned and used the Sigma cameras, I applaud Sigma for their efforts to keep the Foveon concept alive. They even purchased the Foveon company!
Unfortunately, merely increasing sensor size & resolution as well as putting their new sensor in a small body doesn't remedy problems that have plagued this design since Day One.
I will be the first to say that the Foveon sensor provides a unique and distinctive file ... in many instances a remarkable one under the right conditions. But there's the problem: if the conditions aren't to the camera's liking, the results can be pretty awful ... whereas my tiny Olympus E-420 nails it every time ... no matter what I throw at it.
It takes lots of courage (and cash!) to keep singing the same song over and over again with only little variation between performances. I just wish they'd change their tune to something more modern ... like a usable ISO 1600-3200.
>I applaud Sigma for their efforts to keep the Foveon concept alive.
What other options Sigma may come up with? Use Sony sensor instead of Foveon? :)
How many photographers would buy overpriced clumsy clones of Nikon-Sony cameras instead of buying original Nikon-Sony ones?
Who would care about SIGMA P&S at a one grand price tag actually?
Sony NEX 7 body just 200 dollars more but that would provide you with a instrument that was designed for photographers not greedy stockholders.
Means _MUCH_ better colors rendition, good choice of lenses up to Carl Zeiss professional ones (SIGMA lenses are third grade IQ optics), advanced internal electronics, rigid body, tilted LCD, OLED viewfinder.
If SONY is expensive you can get Nokia cell for 600$ equiped with Zeiss lens as well and large many megapixels sensor that delivers accurate colors rendition as well.
Just check sigma forum how upset owners of Sigma "medium format" camera were once Sigma announced the drop of it's "medium format APS sized" flagship camera BS 10 grand price LOL.
teeoh717: It definitely is intriguing, but my original three-year-old Moto Droid (that I still haven't gotten the opportunity of ditching just yet) has a higher 854x480 resolution display (@ 265ppi), even at an inch smaller...
180ppi (320x640) on a phone with a 41 megapixel camera?? What exactly was Nokia thinking? Utter deal breaker in my opinion.
There's a reason most new DSLR screens carry 270+ ppi density. Going "back" to anything lower is a noticeable step backwards. What a shame.
There is another "shame" new flagship Leica M Mono with outdated LCD ... funny world old days photographers do care about lens metering and outcome IQ.
Provia_fan: Sure, because photography is all about megapixels. I can see photographers in their thousands dropping their Leafs and Hassies running towards these phones, that can make even the worst photographer in the world a great one, by allowing to reframe, crop....essential go out and kill the "moment" in photography....
I propose a real test, drop Nick Jojola with this one out of a plane but with a brick tied around his neck and lets see if he still captures "the perfect moment...on a phone".... Ok it's not a test... :D
PS: Have you noticed that everytime they say his name in that silly phone photography shoot in mid air it sounds like Nick Cajones? :D
>Well, after talking to family and/or friends and/or clients for 1h, my converged camera has not enough battery to take a handfull of shots when I actually need it to.
You would be safer with a film manual controlled Leica M then.because any digital camera depends on a battery :)
But what is more curios some very special rare occasions were captured not by a pro reporters with pro gear but by a tourist with fancy cheapest stuff instead ;)
That is why cell phone in a pocket might be much more fruitful instrument than a Hassy in a closet.
Do you own Hassy ? I do BTW.
Honestly old days I was blown away by an IQ of 50$ fix-focal P&S from Oly or 200$ fix focal P&S from Yashica. These cameras were not on a par with a Hassy completely but there IQ taking into account the price tags was absolutely stunning for an amateur.
Why there is no simple inexpensive fix-focal digital instrument similar to Yashica T4Super from film days (except aukward sensor-ed Sigma DP)?
Nokia is _GOOD_ because the company is not making money on SLR stuff so can just easily deliver a decent fix focal P&S with cell phone capabilities as bonus.
lxstorm: It would be really nice to see similar camera with a fix-focal lens of a better IQ like CZ Tessar T* that kind of little tiny fix focal lens might be realistically manufactured of decent real CZ quality while fitting into P&S budget.
Check CZ CP2 135mm E mount price tags to feel what kind of a real CZ quality might be delivered in the camera besides Latin letters saying CZ Sonnar especially taking into account it's a zoomable version of Sonnar.
Nope my point was regarding Tessar T* that kind of a fix focal lens due to very simple optical schema and tiny size could be made up to a top notch CZ quality while fitting P&S budget.
Film days I had used Yashika T4 Super and was amazed how well that two hundreds dollars camera stands against my multi-grand Leica M lenses. It would be nice to see similar digital P&S instrument not just zoomable toys but compact instrument of a decent IQ on the market.
It would be really nice to see similar camera with a fix-focal lens of a better IQ like CZ Tessar T* that kind of little tiny fix focal lens might be realistically manufactured of decent real CZ quality while fitting into P&S budget.
Amnon G: Seems to me like it would make sense to have the LCD super hi-res (e.g. 921,000 pixels) without color filters. It would make it match the sensor and give superior brightness and reviewing ability, losing color only in the menu system which seems a great compromise to make for the benefits.Having a crappy screen on this camera is inexcusable. Not the right place to save a few $$ and definitely doesn't serve potential customers.
shaocaholica, I absolutely agreed with you that a better articulated LCD on a M body would not hurt but would not improve anything either because there is major difference actually.
The M body is a manual controlled RF body so photographer has to look through optical viefinder to adjust focus that is how optical RF works. While snapping with DSLR of autofocus P&S you can use LCD for shooting on M body you cannot. You have to use optical RF viewfinder.
Regarding improvement yes Leica did a major one - new APO prime lens. That is how real improvements for a decent photosystem should be done actually.
pedromeyer, you should handle M body at leas once before making such pointless remarks
Leica has an _OPTICAL_ viewfinder and analog controls on a body. Actually you can use Leica without LCD at all so resolution of an LCD is irrelevant. And please do not tell LCD on any body good enough to evaluate IQ of a digital image. Even peal apart Polaroid controls are so-so.
BTW your iPAQ .. or sorry it was COMPAQ logo LOL... Jobs was not creative enough even to come with a decent logo whatever iApple peace of c. build upon technologies stealed by Jobs from other companies you own is just an overpriced peace of c. :)
Sorry for making it straightforward but you've asked for it.
Roberto Mettifogo: I'll save 7k$ and use Remove chromatic aberrations in Lightroom..
Maybe if your are talking not about VRay, render farm and a team of 3DMAX modelers you might remove aberrations.
But using Leica APO instead will let you save a lot of money more than 7K plus it would be pure photography that is what photographers do care a bout right not computer gimmicks but photography? and will let you get result instantly BTW
The flat image without building 3D model and performing computer intensive calculations like ray tracing cannot be corrected it might be distorted only :)
Nishi Drew: Selling just one of these lenses would cover Leica's development costs, a couple more and the advertisement department and all the employees are happy, then the rest just pure profit for the little red symbol ~
>Selling just one of these lenses would cover Leica's development costs
How many lenses of your own design are on the market now? why are you not making such a decent profit as Leica? :)
BTW do you have an idea how much just a modern workstation with MATLAB license that let you calculate optical design would cost?
Lea5: I don't know why people complain about the price. A simple Hasselblad HCD 4-5.6/35-90 mm Zoom lens which is made by Fuji, cost 6.300 Euro. A Canon CN-E14.5–60mm T2.6 L, cost 45.000 USD. Nobody complains about the price here, but hey it's Leica, it needs to be bashed.
Besides native Leica M I was owning 50mm & 28mm KONICA HEXANON M. Hexanons were very decent but I found myself not using them pretty soon because they do not stand against Leica M. I do not discover it right away from one or 10 shoots but eventually you do feel that Leica's ones provide better outcome especially being used wide open.
Whether one can justify the premium to pay for German optics or US ICs it depends of course. But that Japan manufactures cannot compete with US ICs like Intel Core I7 or German fluorite lenses that is the fact of reality.
BTW low ISO setting and longer exposure/brighter glass delivers better color depth resolution as well as larger pixels (less megapixels per FF) means better color accuracy more obvious bokeh in the final image that is important for Leica glasses especially.
Regarding Zeiss for 35mm camera market yes Zeiss cines in NEX mount priced like real Zeiss ones and most likely would deliver real Zeiss IQ not just the label on a lens ;)
>This Leica is just a normal full frame prime
Nope neither Leica APO no Zeiss superachromat are just "normal" lenses. 8 grand is a very reasonable price actually.
MF Fujinons are inferior than Zeiss ( I am a Hassy shooter BTW). Top notch Japan optics not on a par with top notch German made forget about it.
Marty CL: Ok, Leica is known for some pretty esoteric products. But a $7,000 camera that only shoots black and white ( sorry, "monochrome")---
Because some Leica users do care about real B&W photography.
Actually plastic artificial IQ with aukward colors that is coming from a digital camera is very boring for guys who experienced real look of a better quality media like chrome on a light table or contact B&W prints.
Leica B&W film exposed and analog enlarged old days were looking almost as good as contact prints. These new monochrome beast samples remind me the quality of the film photography. Color images converted to B&W in Photoshop is just a joke in compare.
Scientific instruments are using monochrome sensors actually.
Wow! First consumer digital camera that delivers real film-alike look. My congarts to RedDot guys!
Now I wish something like digital version of Yashica T4 Super Tessar T* with B&W digital sensor at realistic price.
SLR/DSLR is a superior instrument optically it let you see what you are shooting that is a very important addendum for a person who do care about image outcome :) " 'tunnel-vision' of an SLR" just a bloody Leica M marketing nothing more.
Second SLR/DSLR lenses could deliver same/better IQ even in case of film media and for digital capture DSLR concept works better due to angle of incidence issue in case of silicon.
Third leaf shutter lenses do render image differently that is true but Leica M lenses are not.
Fourth only camera with movements let you shoot wide open on various occasions Leica has no movements.
Fifth knowledgeable photographer can survive handling tripod or Broncolor powerpack and 99% of occasions that would blow Leica M out of the water.
For most shooters M body just a compact seriously overpriced status travel camera with an obtrusive outdated viewfinder/focusing mechanism that is true. Leca M lenses deliver spectacular IQ being used wide open that is true too.
Dirk67: It is better looking than the Aptus series but the only big important difference is Liveview, which I don't have on my back. Output-wise it may be the same. Can a D800E challenge this? I don't know about the 40Mp but the 80Mp is still miles away. Plus you get a different aspect ratio, which is closer to 4x5 and 8x10 film. Personally I prefer that and with 35mm I would have to crop a lot to get to that aspect ratio. My lab support structure disappeared and I don't even get my 5x7 film anymore. The 80mp back is getting close to LF film, with smooth, detailed files. It can't do anything meaningful above 200 ISO (That's why DXO numbers suffer) but at ISO 50-200 it really pushes out fantastic files. I wish the D800E would give me that detail but it does not. It would save me a lot of money.
>For Pete's sake, why would you mention a 35mm camera
Just because 35mm digital crowd want to post something. Most of them not only never handle MF they never dialed with film either. So they bashing megapixels "different" sensor technologies pretending an APS-C instrument is a MF camera and other BS like that is so common here LOL.
This web site is not the best place to discuss pro stuff serious just let it go as it is.
BTW I yet to see a digital camera that can deliver real film look even talking about the cine 35mm media Leica M alike.
Anirban Banerjee: Samsung makes good cameras spoiled by the wrong choice of lens mount :-(
Would not mind NX20 with M-mount at all.However M-mount means precisions mechanics that couples manual controlled lens to a rangefinder optics in the body. That leads to a hi quality metal alloys and sophisticated metalwork fabrication...you can double-check the final prices in Leica M store :)
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