cruz031: The lens is not retro enough. At this price, they should bundle it with 50/1.2 at least :) And if Nikon really wanted to bring 'pure photography' back to it's users, they would tweak the sensor to have base iso sensitivity of 25, user removable color-array filter so one could enjoy black&white photography in it's purest form. Even if i personaly don't have anything against use of d600 'oil spitting' shitter, it would be better (more retro) if they opted for FM2's fully mechanical shutter ;)
The modern CCD and CMOS camera's typically do not accommodate the f1.2 - f16 Noc lens because the typical electronic sensor lacks the necessary S/N dynamic range to accommodate the lens. Film having much greater dynamic range thus fully capable of making use of such powerful optics. Adjusting the ISO range on the camera does not sufficiently compensate for the sensors 10E6 S/N limitation.
In short, you condescendingly mock optical superiority for you lack the hardware ability to competently utilize such devices.
jadot: Don't like this camera? Don't buy it.Don't think the price is where it should be? Wait 6 months.Don't think the tech/ergonomics is 'Modern' enough? Buy a D800 or canon equivalent.Like retro, but your mom won't let you spend your pocket money on this? Buy a mirrorless/compact.
Your suggestion to buy a “standard” direct imaging (colloquially known as mirrorless) non reflex or non pellicle (beamsplitter) camera body, today many of these camera's dependent on a second order at best regenerated electronic image with their numerous limitations, speaks volumes about the type of photography that you do, and perhaps not one well suited or seasoned enough to be giving the evolved photographer value added advice.
Sweet looking body. It reminds me of a cross between my old F-2 body morphed with a FM-2 prism and F-3 grip and shutter release.
Very disappointing that the viewfinder magnification is only 0.7x rather than >0.95x. With 0.7x making spot on manual focusing in low lighting conditions with a fast lens, that or coupled to a microscope or telescope very difficult, leading to a missed opportunity or less than idea results.
Overall, the body is a miss, having a low pixel count, not being able to record video HD at 60i or greater, no interchangeable focusing screens such as a "C" screen not the least prism, no shutter priority with AI lens, no integrated intervalometer, no dual SD slots, no USB 3.0.
I'll wait for the DF-2 should one ever be produced for like the F, it was better to have waited for the F2 adding later the DP-11 or DP-12 prism, thus upgrading the body (tool) into a F2A or F2AS. The DW-2, 6x magnifier with C screen extending the power of the camera body immensely.
To Canon, there being no excuses from such “process mature” lens manufacture.
Example of a DISCIPLINED "Requirements Flow Down" document (spreadsheet) as part of a PDR (Preliminary Design Review):
Section 2. Lens Element
2.1. Front Element - Placement and Tilt 2.1.1. Front Element - First Surface
x1) shall not protrude beyond the minimum safe working distance [3b] as measured from the lens mount retaining ring exterior dimension [8c] or lens barrel I.D. front aperture filter thread anterior hard stop [11b]. . . . xx) non compliance with Section 2.1.1.x1, requiring considerations set forth in Sections 3.5.2 Barrel and Element Housing Design - Element Non Conformance, ... , 5.2.1 OPTICAL LENS ACCESSORIES, 6.1.3 HANDLING AND OPERATION NOTIFICATIONS, 7.2 …
or buy the System Requirements program called Doors.
Park McGrawFormer Process Engineering ManagerLaser and Sensor Products Center, Northrop Grumman Aerospace Systems
SRT3lkt: Japanese has extremely high standard of QA.
sharpness comes from discipline!
Please read my posting above.
BlueJakester: Etchell's tour and write-up of the Sigma factory is excellent. I'm very impressed with my Sigma lens and after seeing the complex and time consuming manufacturing process I'm surprised Sigma lenses don't cost more, a lot more.
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I would then immediately review and shut down all lab operations, remove the process engineer and lab managers, produce new training material and retrain the cleanroom staff, all prior to restarting lab operations.
My qualifications, I wrote many of the ESD, and cleanroom procedures for ISO 3-8 (FED STD 209E 1-100,000) at the Laser and Sensor Products Center at Northrop Grumman as the Process Engineering Manager, and Member of the Technical Staff, today the de facto base document for the entire Aerospace Systems sector.
Do a job, big or small, do it right, or not at all.
Yamakisan (Sigma CEO)
Omae wa! Wakata desu ka.
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The number of non qualified and erroneous comments on this site are almost never ending.
The contamination control procedures at Sigma look anything but disciplined or professional, instead appearing to be run by amateur managers pretending to have been formally trained in the field, faking it.
The staff in cleanroom "bunny" suits more for visual effect to impress the unknowing, as the staff at Sigma are improperly gown (female in coating lab, female using interferometer, female inspecting lens, two men standing next to possible ESD station) with individuals not wearing gloves, sleeves not properly pulled down exposing skin surface and very high particle shedding surface.
Seeing the cleanroom procedures being as they are suspect the lab's ESD procedures require scrutiny as well.
imsabbel: Before everybody gets crazy about no modern lens being that fast...
All modern cameras use microlens arrays on the sensor. In that case, acceptance of the sensor is limited similar to the way acceptance of the viewfinder is limited (not showing any DOF and brightness above a certain aperture).
Even a f/1.2 lens is partialy wasted on modern cameras (of course they internally boost ISO to hide this kind of effects) . A /0.7 wouldn't be any brighter either.
Your response is not entirely correct as one does receive optical benefits from increased luminosity by using the faster lens regardless of any microlens array induced reduction in light coupling from non apodization losses upon the individual sensor pixels. Boosting the upper range of the operating ISO scale does not in itself, provide the identical effect produced by using the faster lens. The faster lens permitting the sensor to operate with a lower signal to noise (SN) floor, thus making greater use of the sensors full dynamic range and typically no better than 10X6 in value. The bias effect produced by using a slower lens increasing the initial SN floor level, squelching the dynamic range of the imaging sensor.
Vadimka: DoF, DoF, its not about DoF, people please stop. Thin DoF was actually the biggest challenge for Kubrick when using this lens.
The reason he used his f0.7 lens was to be able to film a candle light scene without using any other light source. But that said, I still think this is not very practical today.
Kubrick shot that scene with F/0.7 using ISO-200 on Mitchell camera if I remember correctly. So today we can simply use excellent ISO-1600 or ISO-3200 on ARRI or SONY or RED etc... and easily shot that same scene with F/2.0 (and don't have to worry that much about thin DoF)
As for your suggested system substitution, your solution will have less luminosity (signal to noise - SN) dynamic range as the noise floor will have been raised to f2, with no reciprocating elevation in the saturation level of the sensor.
As a closing note, depth of field (DOF) is neither “thin” nor “thick” rather “shallow” or “deep”.
parkmcgraw: This is a pretentious article to state,
yet appearing not to be able to properly characterize from a 150+ year professional prospective (Seidel, 1850’s), the correct nature of the aberration being created by the Petzval lens as appose to this now over used media sheik term from Japan “bokeh” as though some new discovery having taken place in optics, further dragged through the dirt with this nonsense convolution,
Which in reality, is little more than a metaphoric lifting of your skirt so that people can read the tattooed words, “I don’t know anything about optical aberrations, though wish to write about such effects, hence the non analytical jibber jabber”.
The aberration being produced is called “field curvature”.
 Telescope Optics, Evaluation and Design, Rutten and Martin van Verrooij, 1988 Willmann-Bell, Inc., pp. 23-29
typo correction 4 of 4
Sentence one should read,
... with irresponsibly disgust me ...
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In closing, you and others alike that are saturated full of poor excuses and laden with irresponsibly discus me, and one of many reasons why each year the leading science fairs continue to deteriorate in project quality.
“the swirled bokeh is referenced by the creators in the promo video"
That's why you have technical editors, and no excuse for dpreview to perpetuate a serious error, nor to be proud of one’s own level of profound ignorance.
Experimental PhysicistIntel ISEF Grand Awards Judge, Physics and AstronomyCalifornia State Science Fair, Judges Advisory CommitteeWorld Record Holder, Brightest Solid State Weapons Grade LaserFormer Process Engineering Manager, Laser and Sensor Products Center, Northrop GrummanOptical Characterization and Integration Facility, Engineering Design Lead, Global Hawk UAV LRIP, Raytheon
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What sort of example does this undisciplined article set for our school students that read these errant articles and forum postings? Having taught optics, needing to inform students that loosely giving credence to the typical lens article and associate posting at dpreview could damage your grade point average.
As for this,
“skipped everything but the first paragraph”
Attention span is a personal discipline issue, and problem that is getting worse with the proliferation of instant gratification in society mixed with a near systemic lack of educational challenges in public schools.
The Petzval article, like your postings being examples of wishing to appear competent on a subject matter that you yourself lack the formal education, yet wish to experience misplaced personal gratification for appearing knowledgeable of such subjects, proudly taking and advertising the path to ignorance and least resistance verse the long hard path to education and competence.
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In fact, why do you, Mark Smith, even feel remotely qualified to express any assessment as to the optical performance of a Petzval lens (your numerous postings scattered about) especially as you openly profess to have no intellectual competence in optics?
Is that the sort of personal level of performance that in your daily profession would be considered a display of competence and excellence?
Are the readers here, and at a world level, deserving of so little respect?
The infantile level of technical proficiency associated with the Petzval lens aberration compounded with the quick and nonchalant dismissal of competence reaching an all time low.
That this sort of amateur article 50-60 years ago would have never made it to press, the editors being too full of shame and outright embarrassment to let such rubbish out the door.
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Hello Mark Smith
Since I have a conscience, am spending the time to retort for being on the front line, read your postings and Petzval article as a collective manifestation of much greater problems in a rapidly turning petulant society.
In addition, only a VULGAR individual would continue to perform acts they know are wrong, with your pathetic statement,
“Of course 'swirly Bokeh' isn't the correct term”.
Especially if a correct term “curvature of field” and term that has been in professional and amateur existence for 150+ years already exist, just because you are not knowing of the term, or of the optical phenomena, resulting in the inappropriate propagating of convoluted and illegitimate, self contrived and invalid optical terminology.
Do you also use self contrived terms and conflicting terminology to describe astigmatism, spherical and chromatic aberration or distortion? Why not arbitrarily take it upon yourself to also change the optical definitions to your liking.
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The convoluting of the word "swirl" beyond describing the polarization state of the electro magnetic (EM) field and non geometrical optics, implying a mathematical "cross" product component exist in the geometric optical ray tracing of the visual optical path and final blur image.
Such notion being incorrect for Bokeh, being a longitudinal and radial effect is comparable to a scalar (dot) product calculation and not a vector (cross) product.
Refocusing a Petzval optical system to obtain radially distributed zonal blur images inside of focus, resulting in translation of the imaging plane, altering the final prescription, invalidating the blur results as Bokeh is the measure of a static focal system.
Your closing response and second excuse for bad behavior, contracting the arrogant nature of the article having stated
as thought the author is hypocritically and inconsistently exempt from being termed a luddite, thus just a pillar of arrogance.
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Hence, Bokeh is a metric that is generally limited to “flat field” imagers as only a relatively flat field imager will provide such inside and outside blur images simultaneous for visual comparison. The exception, the use of a curved focal plane matched to a compensated curved imaging plane, resulting in a relatively spatially flat image plane.
A Petzval lens produces strong, asymmetric curvature of field towards the inside focus of a flat image plane, yielding only blur images outside of the focal plane when off axis, the on axis image fixed and in focus.
As such, a Petzval lens is not capable beyond the chief ray’s on axis location, of producing simultaneous blur images that are both inside and outside of a flat focal plane for all radial zones off axis and where Bokeh is of concern, therefore Bokeh is not a valid descriptive term when used in association with a Petzval lens.
In short, not all popular optical terms such as Bokeh are relevant for all optical prescriptions.
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Your retort to my comment reads more like a defensive reaction and response void of much serious analytical contemplation, in addition to being a rather shabby excuse to justify bad behavior by attempt to rationalize a completely erroneous convolution of terms.
None the least, errantly confusing your apparent lack of optical knowledge relative to “Bokeh”, thus uneducated opinions for some perverted form of competence as you yourself, and determination formulated from your own words, do not fully understand when or how to implement the word “Bokeh” nor fully understanding of its associated optical limits.
For your benefit and others, the word "Bokeh" is used to descriptively compare the simultaneously visible optical reciprocation of blurred images positioned off axis the chief ray that are both inside and outside of an on axis focused, fixed and relatively flat, normal (perpendicular) imaging plane or sensor, e.g. typical plate film, CCD imager, ...
This is a pretentious article to state,
IonPortraits: "Creative Cloud" makes so much sense, I kept thinking why it was taking them so long! Honestly, that's the way of the future. As it is now, the only thing to be seriously reconsidered by Adobe is the high price of the subscription. Economical situation is not ideal anymore for the largest part of its faithful customers while the company itself has grown strong enough to show a spirit of solidarity and understanding.More common sense is paramount!
Everything that is done on a cloud system can be known by the cloud provider.
That includes not just mundane tasks such as monitoring the most frequently used software functions and the nature of the work being performed, but to even viewing your work such as projects that have Intellectual Property (IP) value. In short, potentially giving the provider full knowledge of the “secret sauce”. Worst, if built on a cloud and over time, will the provider try to carve out ownership rights to the work?
Irrespective of what Adobe may claim today for all End User License Agreements (EULA) are dynamic documents, conceived by unscrupulous people, which tend to function in autonomous and asymmetric manner, unilaterally in favor of the provider. In short, cloud providers being entities that should NEVER be entirely trusted.
Like gremlins, no matter what they say, not to be fed after midnight.
As a side note, when China hacks the cloud, also hacks your work, knowing where to concentrate efforts.
The self absorbed CEO at Adobe and economic gypsy is seeking to wrongly place the customer and end user, at the bottom of his imported and unwanted delusionary caste system.