Mr Ed M: When normalized to print resolutions the dynamic range is competitive with other cameras.
It took a while to load, but, ISO 100 +4 EV looks fine when set to print.
ISO 100 +5 EV should clean up fine at print resolutions with a little post processing.
I don't see any issue with the available dynamic range.
"So while with an ISO-invariant camera there is not a penalty to the DR of the exposure compared to raising the ISO and properly exposing the photo (ETTR), this doesn't mean it is 'better' than raising the ISO and properly exposing the photo."
I think Rishi is staying it is better as there's less noise and greater latitude. I would agree to some extent but stand by the fact that I see little if any need in what I shoot day to day where noise or latitude on even a 7DMKII is a concern over Sony's latest sensors.
It is nice to see such advancements and no doubt Canon users will appreciate it when they are there, but IMO it's getting to a point like MP's where we're splitting hairs and pixel peeping way too much. There are also many, many other factors impacting the end product and DR Capability the far outweigh the gear.
Output size/medium, each humans vision, each persons awareness or artistic/technical eye, type of photos being created, etc....
"What is your point? What are you taking issue with?"
I took issues with the above snide reply but let's agree to move on from that.
I also took issue that what you called workarounds are actually techniques and important concepts of photography. If you want to agree to disagree there, let's move for the sake of the board.
I agree that every camera has it's place depending on the users needs both in terms of DR and focus capability/performance overall.
My opinion around DR like yours can be around the understanding of the technicals but here on the forums I see way to many arguments that are essentially people levering the DR capability as a crutch to fix poor technique. That's fine, see point #3 above. I just think it's important to leverage how to properly expose shots as well as discuss DR capabilities.
Shadow areas on people shot outdoors shouldn't require 4 stops of push on a regular basis. IMO the fix is easy and prior to pressing the shutter.
"So you've failed to notice all the properly ETTR'd sunsets we've posted recently, in content, in reviews, etc. where the cameras don't run into DR limitations b/c they have significantly more DR than, say, the 5DS R?"
How are you determining what I notice or fail to notice? Just curious.
Also, are you trying to say that prior to those fantastic reviews and shots there's never been a sunset shot that's not had DR issues? No other camera is capable of taking a properly exposed sunset shot?
"Whether or not you use flash is an artistic choice, not a question of proper technique"
Debate artistic choice all you want, technique does include the following and yes they all also play into artistic choice:Proficiency with controlling light - illumination & lighting are different. Photography is painting with light. Know how to evaluate the quality of the light, it's intensity & direction; location choice. Know when during the day/season is best to shoot at which times of day, etc.
I'm sorry but while this is a technical forum, it's not all about the gear and DR it offers. Great photography exists without the need to push shadows to ridiculous extremes. Nor does a sensor/camera that allows for it make someone a better photographer. They still need good technique.
" I use flash in environmental portraiture when I want it. But it changes the look, so it's irrelevant to bring into the discussion here. Whether or not you use flash is an artistic choice, not a question of proper technique."
The old artistic choice stance point. I'll remember that in the next thread in DPR forus that discuss dynamic range and typically include images with poor technique. Not every thread, but many. In the mean time we all can agree to use a flash when we so choose. The rest can continue to crank up the shadows.
"Also: not at all a smart aleck reply: I'm just pointing out that the comment is pretty irrelevant when I've shown you a properly ETTR'd sunset that did run into the DR limitations of the camera."
I'm sure I'm not alone in my comment about the tone of your reply. Feel free to carry on with it though. It still stands advice given either way. Perhaps once there is a properly ETTR'd sunset that doesn't run into DR limitations it will becomes relevant.
"I've shot some really nice sunrise and sunset images without issues."
... is kind of like saying:
"I've shot some really nice pictures that are different from yours without issues."
Ok... thanks for sharing.-------
I can appreciate the smart aleck reply but it does little for your integrity. Personally I expect better from the staff writers here.
I do trust however you're smart enough to know what I mean in terms of capturing a bright sky and a dark foreground that matches what you've shown. Different pictures with simliar to same challenges.
"So you've sacrificed stops of highlight headroom by upping your ISO setting so you wouldn't have to push in post. OK, that's fine, that's what most people do, and it's how cameras expect you to work, in fact.
But you, and most others, also throw away that many stops of highlights (that's why DR shrinks with ISO) - this may matter to some."
Not really. I don't push ISO's very high at all and even when I do I insure proper exposure and don't blow my highlights as you're eluding I might be.
I've shot plenty of outdoor scenes with a bright sky and shadows in the scene and still haven't needed to push the shadows 4 stops.
Most of samples and posts I read discussing such a need typically involve poor exposure settings and people trying to recover shadows on the face of someone with a bright window behind them. Perhaps they need to learn how to use a flash? But as you say, perhaps proper technique only matters to some.
"The noise levels may be 'fine' or 'acceptable' to you after a 4 EV push, but they're visually demonstrably noisier than "
I'm still struggling to see where I've needed a 4EV push for an image I've shot. I suppose perhaps in the example here but I've shot some really nice sunrise and sunset images without issues.
I'm with you. I've rarely if ever taken a shot at ISO 100 and had to push shadows 5 stops. Even still the the resulting noise hasn't been an issue.
Great photos! You've both aged beautifully. You still got the better half of that deal ;)
I'm surprised it took this long. Kudos for finally coming through with a decent camera.
Henrikw: Thanks for this great video. I'm very happy to see the A6000 getting all this praise as it's well deserved. At some point, even the biggest camera snobs will have to come to terms with the fact that Sony has created a little, cheap mirrorless which holds it's own against the big, expensive dslr's - in some areas outperforming the Canons and Nikons.
@Zeisschen...my comment was related to the selection of lenses he was using here and what I see used in many many different testings of the A6000. Sure they have "adapters" for other third party lenses but IIRC that impacts focus performance. Also if I'm not mistaken at f/2.8 there's an impact on fps rate.
In terms of a DSLR with anything substancial, use a small monopod. The body isn't heavy it's the lenses that usually are. at football games I use either/both a 70-200 f/2.8 and upwards of a 400mm f4/5.6 range.
lacikuss: I like the DR of this camera and the overall package, however this camera is advertised in the video as excellent for action/sports?
I can't see how can you test the AF speed with a subject at 200 meters barely moving across the frame with a APS-C sensor. At that distance with a 300mm focal length at f/5.6 you have a total dof of 182.9m, starting from 144m and ending at 327m. So even a MANUAL FOCUS LENS would do.
If the subject was at 50m then the dof would be 10m, I guess MANUAL FOCUS would do that too...
So, is this the best DPR can test and vouch for the AF of a camera?
BTW the subject is perfectly isolated from the water in it dark suit.
Arrogance? Common sense really. Expose properly and you don't need to lift by 2+ stops. Seriously...kudos to Sony for a great sensor, but the DR arguments are typically slanted to those who don't know how to use a camera / expose properly.
Even still I've shot at base ISO 100 on the 7DMKII and pushed shadows 2 stops with minimum to no noise and posted in the Canon forum when debating the issue. Feel free to stop by and do so to no avail again. Happy to compare shots.
In the end is there a difference....yeah in both skill and minor in terms of noise. If that is what you need then buy a Sony. Others will shoot properly and enjoy a way more robust focus system when it counts. We'll also enjoy shooting wide open at f/2.8 and getting a much better DOF appearance and still retain full Frames per second shooting. Try shooting indoor sports with your Sony with those settings and let us know how that works for you.
GM emerged from Bankruptcy just fine and truck sales across the board in 2014 were among the best figures in the last 10 years.
In terms of DR, that's fine considering the only ones needing to push shadows 2 full stops are those that don't know how to use a camera. Even then, the 7DMKII metering system is far better than most out there.
Let me know when it can actually be used for indoor basketball or better yet a childrens on-stage play. Less than stellar light kills it's AF Capability. But hey, I'm still waiting on SI to switch over to Sony for football, basketball, baseball or more....hasn't happened for a reason.....
LOL that's funny. I'll keep my eye out of A6000's at the next pro sporting event I attend. Haven't seen them used yet.
The Sony Mirrorless line up is indeed nice. They are also nice compliments to a DSLR, but honestly none of the photos taken in this video are remarkable from the standpoint of needing this camera to take them. DSLR's today and even my 2007 40D Canon could nail those shots with some significant advantages. Advantages in terms of shallow DOF and range of focal length and reach available to them. Let alone better balance and ergonomics.
The A6000 is a great little camera and one I would enjoy for traveling, but you won't see nor do you see many if any used for pro sports and there are obvious reasons why. This video shows many of them.
pdqgp: Meh, I feel for them, but they will very likely be hired back as freelance contractors. It will save the company money and free up the photogs to do other things too.
@redfoxActually jobs like freelancers and those being paid on 1099''s often do very well. Earning a paycheck is great but comes with burdens and less rewards. I own my own businesses on top of working for a large co. and do well but independance is key and the money there is better.
Retirement isn't an issue for a 1099 person either as part of their 'tax advantages' is found in IRA contributions. Own your own business and you'll know what I mean. Wife and I write checks every spring to contribute to our retirement and it helps us avoid lots of taxes. Benefit wise, I'll gladly self-insure and contribute to an HSA. Most companies are doing that anyway. Especially when I make far more than working for someone else.
In the end, it's about risk / reward. Take less risks but you often get less rewards. No thanks. I would especially say thats true for these photogs who are no doubt not going to be left in the cold.
Meh, I feel for them, but they will very likely be hired back as freelance contractors. It will save the company money and free up the photogs to do other things too.
Naveed Akhtar: Can we have similar Page 13 type Hdr comparison with Fujifilm XT1, pleeeease? with any new Canon or Nikon APSC or FF DSLR!!
Since DxoMark denies to perform any test on XTrans sensors, it would be good to get some comparison results here!!
@Rishi Sanyal"We actually did do a series of tests, first microadjusting a 24/1.4, then comparing PDAF to Dual-Pixel AF. Dual-Pixel AF has higher accuracy (meaning it doesn't appear to need microadjustment; in fact, microadjustment doesn't even appear to be available for dual-pixel AF. the implications of that are incredibly exciting). It also has fantastic precision, as does the center AF point of the dedicated PDAF system."
^^ you do realize that Microfocus Adjustments only apply to the OVF as when using Live View and DPAF the camera is measuring right off the sensor. This isn't something new.
ttran88: Search Gary fong A6000 vs 7DM2 on YouTube guys and gals. You will be surprised with what the results are. And yes Gary is a Sony Artisan. But he's not the first to test the AF abilities of this $600 camera. The guys at Cameralabs shot the tour of de France with A6000 + FE 70-200mm. Their hit rates were high as well. The days of DSLR AF being superior to mirrorless is numbered.
Too bad Gary and Kyle didn't operate the 7DMKII correctly. They seriously need to read the manual on how to use the 65pt AF System when iTR is enabled like that had it. It was completely user error why it failed.