DaveMarx: Sensor size is a non-issue, or soon will be. The inherent technical quality of a 4x5 negative will always beat 35mm. We still moved from Speed Graphics to Nikons. Negative quality was not the pivot point in our decisions. Do you think Nikon doesn't remember? We're at the point of diminishing returns on sensor quality when we have to push bench tests to ISO 800 or 1600 before we see a meaningful difference between sensor sizes. That's like Tri-X vs. Plus-X, man!
10 FPS full-feature shooting? Near-instant AF? A bag full of lenses and bodies half the bulk and weight of today's? One photographer in the right place at the right time, with one camera, one family of lenses, able to sell both stills and motion... We'll see V1s on football sidelines and at news events, and we'll follow. This is how Nikon created the era of the SLR.
They'll keep supporting the legacy format, too. Folks will switch whenever they're ready, and not before. But, flippin' mirror, you're the weakest link. Goodbye!
Your whole argument is imaginary, as there are already cameras with bigger sensors that are NOT any bigger than the Nikon 1 stuff.
I'd totally follow you if Nikon had actually produced a smaller, lighter camera with less protruding lenses, but they haven't.
On the contrary if you look at the latest release Panasonic 18-42 lens, which is a zoom as flat as a pancake lens.
apil_ua: So sales are supposed to surpass costs of development of completely new cameras/lenses/accessories + marketing them...And entry-level DSLR sales are supposed to remain same, even though competitors' sales of mirror-less systems grows......even though competitors have(Sony) or going to introduce(Fuji) cameras with phase detection-AF with instant image/video capture....even though Pentax offers a similar micro-sensor system.Can't get it even from raising-profits point of view.New system should exterminate all P&S sales to make it true.
P.S.Aren't "Facebook shooters" using iPhones? Didn't Nikon forget to put 3G, 4" touch screen and android in their new cameras? ;)P.P.S."Nikon shares rise as Nikkei suggests mirrorless launch" - well, new system already makes some sense for company shareholders... Not sure, is this good for company customers?
"Aren't "Facebook shooters" using iPhones? Didn't Nikon forget to put 3G, 4" touch screen and android in their new cameras? ;)"
and MP3/M4A playback, please...
mikezlm: My favorite cameras are the Panasonic Lumix G1 and Nikon D90. I love the versatility of the G1 and its 17.3 x 13mm sensor size. The market that Nikon is targeting is clear, and 'Enthusiast' is a marketing concept created by camera manufacturers.
With the expanding mirrorless interchangeable lens camera market, a new niche has been created with the V1, J1 and the others that will inevitably follow. With whatever small sensor image IQ and NR technology they come up with, a larger sensor is better. That's the math, and that's the science. Period.
So, thank you Nikon, I'll stay with my G1.
why do you like the G1 better than the G2 and G3 ?
Orangesmartie: I'd be curious to see how the '1' range develops over time.
Is it possible that the new mount been designed to accommodate a larger sensor in the future (perhaps when DSLR sale drop further), hence the lenses being the size that they are...?
Will people hold their breath?
Gorpalm: As its all a roiling sea of speculation right now about the "why" and "wherefores" of developing this size, I'd like to add my 2cents - Firstly well done Nikon for upping the ante for all.
Their decision seems very marketing and sales platform led - producing a distinctive a category as possible to minimise PRIMARY-choice cannibalism of sales from their compacts (Potential purchasers of even top-end compact models would likely see the J1/V1 as too expensive, at least at launch), and their DSLRs (potential downgraders would see it as a step too far in terms of potential IQ, camera control, bokeh capability etc).
Yet its a great Second choice for Nikon fans taking the next step up from their compacts, or back-up "carry-anywhere" alternative to big DSLRs. And it opens up the arena of customers considering mirrorless whatever the brand - Olympus must be bracing for a fight w their mft models when prices settle, and on-the-fringes models like Samsung NX/Pentax Q? Forgeddabouddit.
You're bringing up the one real benefit to customers with this:
Increasing the speed of other manufacturer's innovation, while lowering prices.
We'll see if Nikon gets any benefit from this release, which amounts to a business strategy ploy, rather than solving customers' problems.
But traveling photographers will rejoice everywhere for lower prices and increased specs on their next Panasonic, Olympus and Sony purchases.
I still believe that the company who's first focus is on solving customer's problems wins. No amount of branding, advertising spin and conniving will get enough people to overpay for something that doesn't surpass cheaper products that solve their problems just as well or better.
What if DSLR buyers who were not hoping for a cheaper, but simply a less clunky (meaning big and heavy) high quality camera from Nikon will be so disgusted with this type of conniving ploy, they'll go out of their way to buy a different vendor's DSLR next time?
jagge: Sorry but why bother. Its been 3 months since the preview, Sony has put forward at least 4 cams in the meantime that deserves much more attention, the nex5n and 7, the a65 and a77.
I can for the life of me not understand that you dont make a editorial rule out of candeling all the reviews you could not get done within 2 months instead of dragging a stack of unfinished reviews along. The result is that you will put out a lot of uninspiring reviews out MUCH later than everyone else, and leaving the true groundbreaking cams on the shelf forever.
With this speed none of the new Sonys will be reviewed on this side of X-mas is that good enough ?
Maybe they get to keep the cool cameras longer that way *wink wink
But really, everybody has a different opinion of what camera he wants to see reviewed first. So it seems impossible that DPReview can make everybody happy if they have limited resources...
I guess I'm not so bothered by the X-mas time frame, nobody is going to buy me a camera for X-mas *sniff, and I usually wait a few months before buying anything newly released anyway, I got stuck with early adopter problems too many times..
newcameraguy2821: If anyone is looking for another review, here is a video review of the Sony A35 camera by CNET: http://bit.ly/qArlCg
Its been ages since I've seen a review worth reading on CNET... They started to hire anyone who can fog a mirror sometime in the late 90's.Usually, its 60% reworded press release text, thickened up with guesses and assumptions.
MysticX: I really can't understand why they release such cameras with the 18-55 lens as the default kit. That's stupid. Such a combo negates all the advantage of the ultra small slim pocketable body.
The selling kit should be with the 30mm prime and special kits maybe with the 20-50, 20mm prime and other 2 lens kits.
But, perhaps their marketing department said no, sell it with the much bigger 18-50 to make it look more professional.
Indeeed, it's hard to sell a tiny camera that looks almost like a basic P&S with $800, even if it's good. Better to sell it with stupid matched optics but sell it.
part of the reason I haven't bought any CSC yet is the stupid kit lenses... its incredibly annoying. A 30mm pancake kit would earn my money pretty quick. I just refuse to buy these retarded big and heavy zooms, that are no use to me.
If manufacturers are really worried about needing a bug ugly lens on CSC's to make them look "more professional" I guess their opinion of customers in that price segment is very low, like customers are an-alphabets.
But really, its the same price segment as a D5100, which I'd also hate to have to buy with a big crappy zoom. We're just hoping to gain portability in exchange for less convenient operation, while retaining as much IQ as possible.
Wider market will buy those smaller things if the reviews are good, not based on how many inches the lens protrudes. Maybe save for those who think its a phallic symbol :P
hammerheadfistpunch: Im not sure i understand the benefit to coming out with a smaller (15.9 mm diag.) proprietary sensor system instead of adopting a standard like MFT or even DX. I guess they were worried about it stealing sales from their larger offerings? This could have been a great addition to the MFT family, why Nikon, WHY?
@ cberry For practical purposes, what can it do better for a blogger than a G3/GF3?
Not sure there's enough bloggers to dedicate an entire new product line to.
Graystar: It's striking how ugly this system is...almost like someone said "let's see how ugly we can make it!"
I think the J1 looks ok, but on the V1, the EVF-hump and that whole upper lid on the case looks like a bloody amateur designed it.
cberry: I like the idea - I think the execution with motorized everything is not so great.The thing I see missing is the physical control of zoom and focus that an ILC should have - otherwise it's a P&SILC - and a very good one at that. 2 lenses and 27-270mm equivalent isn't bad but where is the portrait prime and Macro lens?A separate flash battery would have made it larger and reduced cycle times. No worries - 3rd party solutions will certainly crop up.Price it just above G12 and it should have some takers although looking at it, I might just think Leica should do this and improve on it.cb
portrait prime is where Sony lost me with their Nex models :P
desmo101: I think the J1 is more interesting than the V1... fits more the target market IMO and the rice is more reasonable. Also it's the more compact of the two. I can't wait to read the official review. Now... when is leica bringing out a M compatible mirror less cam? :-)
Didn't Leica re-brand some mirrorless Panasonic camera already?
justmeMN: This sounds like a really nice bridge camera, significantly better than a compact camera, but not as good (or big, or intimidating) as a DSLR.
I suspect that it will be popular with current compact camera owners who want to upgrade.
What about the existence of better non-intimidating and equally small sized options that can already be had for less money?
cm71td: "It's most certainly not designed as a second camera for SLR users, but rather as an entirely different type of system that users intimidated by the size and perceived complexity of SLRs can upgrade to when they outgrow their compacts"
Why would someone who is "intimidated by the complexity of SLRs" need an interchangeable lens camera?
Getting bored with waiting and need a camera within one month now, so I'm considering getting a cheap NX11 with a 30mm pancake as a stop-over, till maybe Canon wakes up next year.
You see, I was waiting for Nikon's release, not as a second camera to an SLR, but as a first and only camera. I haven't had an SLR since the days of little film cans.
And even though I loved shooting with it, my memories of lugging that around make me want to take advantage of the miniaturization Sony has proven works.
The only reason I didn't buy a Nex is cause Sony lacks a nice, small 30mm pancake like Samsung has, or even a 50mm prime.
I didn't buy a G3, solely cause I didn't want the smaller M4/3 sensor, even though I love the way that camera is set up.
I really wanted a small main camera out of Nikon, with the low light power of their D5100 at the same price but smaller size.I was really waiting for Nikon to deliver a better alternative.
Ok, so they fear cannibalizing their DSLR market, but it wouldn't touch their high end cameras, and they wouldn't need to charge any less for a small (cheaper to make) mirrorless version of the D5100 and a more simplistic sister model.
m3: What are they smoking now in Japan? People want their slow zooms glued to the tiny camera. Why bother bringing out the same thing with fiddly bits (sorry, interchangeable lenses) you can take off and put back on again if the camera you've already got takes the same pictures with the same small sensor and the same slow zoom?All this in the face of Sony's NEX7 which will be the standard to follow. I'll bet Nikon shareholders are furious.
@ ajay0612 with Nikon's 116sqmm vs Panasonic's 225sqmm being about half the size, you're calling it "JUST 50% smaller" I imagine you wouldn't complain if your builder said that to you about the expected square footage of your new house lol...Also, its less than 1/3 the size of the 368sqmm APS-C sensors you can get in Samsung cameras NX11 and NX100 between 270 and 380 euros (already including kit lenses).
If Nikon really offers "better photos" than LX5, F200 remains to be seen. I do believe it will take photos faster, which can be of benefit for certain applications.
So, if you're a trekker or hiker, first of all, you don't want to carry a bag full of lenses. As far as a quality zoom the size of a pancake lense goes, I think Panasonic has an easy lead at the moment. And of course you can just take a pancake lense with either Nex or GFx and not have any more size or weight than Nikon's J1
spiderhunter: This is tragedy at its worst. The technology, from what I read, is God-send but there is one fundamental flaw - the sensor is of the wrong size. The could well be the beginning of the end for Nikon as another brand can always have the same technology or better with a APS-C or FF sensor, and this little Nikon creation will bite the dust.
Already, the negative opinion against these latest releases is overwhelming. I can't remember any other occasion, and I stand corrected, when a new product has received such concerted negative reaction. No doubt other players are observing, taking down notes, waiting at the wings and ready to launch their attack.
Obviously, in their blind lust to protect their DSLR market, they became disorientated and marched into the quicksand. Sad, sad.
You're right, Harold66, until you get to the small matter of MSRP...
I know a few of the people you're referring to. A friend of mine, who uses a little canon snapper once said to me an LX5 would be wasted on him, he'd not use it enough to warrant spending $500. And this guy isn't short on cash, he's just not interested. Then there's my mom, if you walked her into a camera store and left her there, she's buy whatever the sales guy told her to buy. So, if Nikon's J1 offered the best margins to dealers, that's what she would come home with.
I really do wonder where this Nikon fits in between the don't-want-to upgraders and the would-like-to-but-too-expensive upgraders
Putting a Nikon J1 next to a discounted Samsung NX100 on Amazon's shelf; even at price parity of $399, I can already see the same customer-reviews previously seen there: "yeah, xyz camera is neat, but the bigger sensor camera is the sharper sword"
shaocaholica: "It's most certainly not designed as a second camera for SLR users, but rather as an entirely different type of system that users intimidated by the size and perceived complexity of SLRs can upgrade to when they outgrow their compacts"
So basically its not for the large majority of DPR readers.
uhhh, how much later?
I thought it was pretty late already...
Anton Marcu: the entire business model is predicated on a market segment of compact users who want to upgrade, but I think the vast majority of these would just upgrade to the newest iteration of the compact they already have NOT to a paradigm-shifting interchangeable system, no matter how compact it is (it's not really) or how fast
Nikon will have a though challenge ahead to convert their intended target market and convince them this is what they need, but who knows, in 5 years this maybe the next ipod
@ Fraucha ok, so it comes down to "marketing it right", cause surely, yanking out the perfect motion shot I'm already doing with my 1080p recording Galaxy smartphone. Somehow, it keeps video better in focus than stills :P
The Canon GF3 and the Nex do a good job of that already.
So we end up comparing AF speed vs sensor size / IQ...
I think Nikon just wanted to a) save money, b) not cannibalize DSLR sales, c) enter the new market before shareholders revolt.
All the strategy / slides / advertising looks like it was created after the DSLR department told them what they weren't allowed to use.