Peiasdf: Love Nikon's lenses design.
Yes, some of them have a Bauhaus look to them, like old Braun products. Now we just have to get Nikon to put better glass in them.
kenghor: Nikon is doomed!
The small 2.7x crop sensor is a joke to those who users who bother to have an inter-changeable lens system. How much of the small-form advantage does it has over the GF3 / Nex series, if any at all? And those who like it to be really small will simply stay with the compact cameras.
I see that Nikon can only capitalise on its brand name to sell such a system to those who knows little about camera. Probably cannibalising its p&s and low end DSLR customers.
Nikon is not a big company compared to the other electronic giants such as Canon, Sony, Panny and Samsung. With its resources spreading thin, its DSLR business may as a result suffer big time.
@ Cy Chezeyou say "Would it make sense to offer a clone of the m4/3 or NEX devices?"
Who would ever suggest Nikon make a clone :P How about beating them with a better camera, eliminating the warts of the other systems? Isn't that Nikon's strength?
Of course you can't do that if you're in fearful protectionist mode.
zanypoet: Cursed small sensors. Nikon is bringing knife to a gun fight.
I wonder why Nikon so fears cannibalizing entry level DSLR's. Its happening with or without them.
And lets say, their own, well designed small-sized APS-C sensor camera does take sales away from the D3100/D5100, where is the problem? They are not selling them for any less money, but they are more prone to sell little proprietary attachments like Sony is already doing.
Further, looking at Sony's E-mount lenses, those aren't any smaller than their A-mount lenses. Not surprising, cause they have to serve the same size sensor.
So, for Nikon, there's no issue to keep using the same lens mount and lenses. Several Nikon DSLR prime lenses are smaller than Sony's E-mount prime lenses coming out in December.
So, Nikon wouldn't anger its customer base over lens concerns, nor would they loose any money if more people switched to smaller Nikons, cause they wouldn't need to switch brands.
I'd pay MORE not less for a smaller mirrorless D5100 sister from Nikon with the same low light power.
zanypoet: At least it's not ugly like NEX7 ala soup can attached to cigarette box.
You do have a point there...
I think I would have bought a Nex long ago, if they had a ~30mm pancake... But that 18mm is just too wide as an only lens for me.
And the new 35mm macro and 50mm portrait lenses are no shorter than the kit zoom either, so we're back to soup can on a cigarette box. (even though the cigarette box is nicely designed)
Razgriz: My word look at all of the complaints about the size of sensors and speeds of lenses and unfavourable apertures.
I thought it was all about the moment, framing and the capture.
I wonder if Rembrant or Picasso made the same critique when some new paint brushes appeared on the market?
Just a thought!
Absolutely! At every art school, there's always bitching and moaning about brushes and colors...
You see, painting is very slow... so various chatter is inevitable while doing it, and when you make a mistake, you need something to blame it on.
jameshamm: Smart: make a caricature of a mirrorless camera to portray the format as crap.
now I see what they're trying to do...
ishu: 1. For the compact camera user, the sensor is bigger, not smaller. 2. For the compact camera user, this camera is screamingly fast. 3. There are many more compact users to "upgrade" than DSLR users to "downgrade." 4. Whether this market realizes the value of the CX remains to be seen.
If CX delivers as promised, the fast response closes an enormous performance gap between the "highest-end" compacts vs. "lowest-end" DSLRs. That alone could make Nikon CX the choice of soccer moms because it offers something you can't get on any other "approachable" (not "affordable") camera.
Then consider affordable high-magnification low-light lenses like the new $250 50mm f/1.8 DX (think school performances, high school sports; see a trend?) and I would buy one for my wife, whose bridge camera is "too slow." Notably, she's never wanted to get the "out-of-focus-background thing" known by the DPR crowd as shallow DOF.
Makes perfect sense that not everybody cares about DOF. Wasn't there some other thing sensor size helped with?
What if the lighting isn't that great and your kids look all grainy with red, green and blue dots all over their faces, or blurred cause the shutter had to stay open longer, just because you picked a camera for its processing speed, instead of one that takes better pictures when the light isn't perfect?
One that is the same size and less expensive in spite of higher picture quality?
When is Nikon's Board going to hire Leo Apotheker as CEO?
He's available and he'll take care of everything!
He'll discontinue the J/V 1 in about a month, get rid of the low profit hardware business and move Nikon into software by purchasing Adobe...!
And people will be buying Nikon J1' like crazy for $99 for their mothers and grand mothers.
Lensjoy: Seems like a bit of a yawn to me. The 1" sensor is bigger than what's in enthusiast P/S cameras such as the Canon S90, but the interchangeable lens design screams for a better sensor than 1".
What I want is the 1" sensor in a nice, small P/S body for better low light performance and better image quality. That would make more sense, and represent a breakthrough in the enthusiast P/S market. Instead, we get this.
Yeah, if they put that sensor in their next Coolpix, in that price range, people will be all over it, and other P&S makers would have to scramble...
DaveMarx: Sensor size is a non-issue, or soon will be. The inherent technical quality of a 4x5 negative will always beat 35mm. We still moved from Speed Graphics to Nikons. Negative quality was not the pivot point in our decisions. Do you think Nikon doesn't remember? We're at the point of diminishing returns on sensor quality when we have to push bench tests to ISO 800 or 1600 before we see a meaningful difference between sensor sizes. That's like Tri-X vs. Plus-X, man!
10 FPS full-feature shooting? Near-instant AF? A bag full of lenses and bodies half the bulk and weight of today's? One photographer in the right place at the right time, with one camera, one family of lenses, able to sell both stills and motion... We'll see V1s on football sidelines and at news events, and we'll follow. This is how Nikon created the era of the SLR.
They'll keep supporting the legacy format, too. Folks will switch whenever they're ready, and not before. But, flippin' mirror, you're the weakest link. Goodbye!
Your whole argument is imaginary, as there are already cameras with bigger sensors that are NOT any bigger than the Nikon 1 stuff.
I'd totally follow you if Nikon had actually produced a smaller, lighter camera with less protruding lenses, but they haven't.
On the contrary if you look at the latest release Panasonic 18-42 lens, which is a zoom as flat as a pancake lens.
apil_ua: So sales are supposed to surpass costs of development of completely new cameras/lenses/accessories + marketing them...And entry-level DSLR sales are supposed to remain same, even though competitors' sales of mirror-less systems grows......even though competitors have(Sony) or going to introduce(Fuji) cameras with phase detection-AF with instant image/video capture....even though Pentax offers a similar micro-sensor system.Can't get it even from raising-profits point of view.New system should exterminate all P&S sales to make it true.
P.S.Aren't "Facebook shooters" using iPhones? Didn't Nikon forget to put 3G, 4" touch screen and android in their new cameras? ;)P.P.S."Nikon shares rise as Nikkei suggests mirrorless launch" - well, new system already makes some sense for company shareholders... Not sure, is this good for company customers?
"Aren't "Facebook shooters" using iPhones? Didn't Nikon forget to put 3G, 4" touch screen and android in their new cameras? ;)"
and MP3/M4A playback, please...
mikezlm: My favorite cameras are the Panasonic Lumix G1 and Nikon D90. I love the versatility of the G1 and its 17.3 x 13mm sensor size. The market that Nikon is targeting is clear, and 'Enthusiast' is a marketing concept created by camera manufacturers.
With the expanding mirrorless interchangeable lens camera market, a new niche has been created with the V1, J1 and the others that will inevitably follow. With whatever small sensor image IQ and NR technology they come up with, a larger sensor is better. That's the math, and that's the science. Period.
So, thank you Nikon, I'll stay with my G1.
why do you like the G1 better than the G2 and G3 ?
Orangesmartie: I'd be curious to see how the '1' range develops over time.
Is it possible that the new mount been designed to accommodate a larger sensor in the future (perhaps when DSLR sale drop further), hence the lenses being the size that they are...?
Will people hold their breath?
Gorpalm: As its all a roiling sea of speculation right now about the "why" and "wherefores" of developing this size, I'd like to add my 2cents - Firstly well done Nikon for upping the ante for all.
Their decision seems very marketing and sales platform led - producing a distinctive a category as possible to minimise PRIMARY-choice cannibalism of sales from their compacts (Potential purchasers of even top-end compact models would likely see the J1/V1 as too expensive, at least at launch), and their DSLRs (potential downgraders would see it as a step too far in terms of potential IQ, camera control, bokeh capability etc).
Yet its a great Second choice for Nikon fans taking the next step up from their compacts, or back-up "carry-anywhere" alternative to big DSLRs. And it opens up the arena of customers considering mirrorless whatever the brand - Olympus must be bracing for a fight w their mft models when prices settle, and on-the-fringes models like Samsung NX/Pentax Q? Forgeddabouddit.
You're bringing up the one real benefit to customers with this:
Increasing the speed of other manufacturer's innovation, while lowering prices.
We'll see if Nikon gets any benefit from this release, which amounts to a business strategy ploy, rather than solving customers' problems.
But traveling photographers will rejoice everywhere for lower prices and increased specs on their next Panasonic, Olympus and Sony purchases.
I still believe that the company who's first focus is on solving customer's problems wins. No amount of branding, advertising spin and conniving will get enough people to overpay for something that doesn't surpass cheaper products that solve their problems just as well or better.
What if DSLR buyers who were not hoping for a cheaper, but simply a less clunky (meaning big and heavy) high quality camera from Nikon will be so disgusted with this type of conniving ploy, they'll go out of their way to buy a different vendor's DSLR next time?
jagge: Sorry but why bother. Its been 3 months since the preview, Sony has put forward at least 4 cams in the meantime that deserves much more attention, the nex5n and 7, the a65 and a77.
I can for the life of me not understand that you dont make a editorial rule out of candeling all the reviews you could not get done within 2 months instead of dragging a stack of unfinished reviews along. The result is that you will put out a lot of uninspiring reviews out MUCH later than everyone else, and leaving the true groundbreaking cams on the shelf forever.
With this speed none of the new Sonys will be reviewed on this side of X-mas is that good enough ?
Maybe they get to keep the cool cameras longer that way *wink wink
But really, everybody has a different opinion of what camera he wants to see reviewed first. So it seems impossible that DPReview can make everybody happy if they have limited resources...
I guess I'm not so bothered by the X-mas time frame, nobody is going to buy me a camera for X-mas *sniff, and I usually wait a few months before buying anything newly released anyway, I got stuck with early adopter problems too many times..
newcameraguy2821: If anyone is looking for another review, here is a video review of the Sony A35 camera by CNET: http://bit.ly/qArlCg
Its been ages since I've seen a review worth reading on CNET... They started to hire anyone who can fog a mirror sometime in the late 90's.Usually, its 60% reworded press release text, thickened up with guesses and assumptions.
MysticX: I really can't understand why they release such cameras with the 18-55 lens as the default kit. That's stupid. Such a combo negates all the advantage of the ultra small slim pocketable body.
The selling kit should be with the 30mm prime and special kits maybe with the 20-50, 20mm prime and other 2 lens kits.
But, perhaps their marketing department said no, sell it with the much bigger 18-50 to make it look more professional.
Indeeed, it's hard to sell a tiny camera that looks almost like a basic P&S with $800, even if it's good. Better to sell it with stupid matched optics but sell it.
part of the reason I haven't bought any CSC yet is the stupid kit lenses... its incredibly annoying. A 30mm pancake kit would earn my money pretty quick. I just refuse to buy these retarded big and heavy zooms, that are no use to me.
If manufacturers are really worried about needing a bug ugly lens on CSC's to make them look "more professional" I guess their opinion of customers in that price segment is very low, like customers are an-alphabets.
But really, its the same price segment as a D5100, which I'd also hate to have to buy with a big crappy zoom. We're just hoping to gain portability in exchange for less convenient operation, while retaining as much IQ as possible.
Wider market will buy those smaller things if the reviews are good, not based on how many inches the lens protrudes. Maybe save for those who think its a phallic symbol :P
hammerheadfistpunch: Im not sure i understand the benefit to coming out with a smaller (15.9 mm diag.) proprietary sensor system instead of adopting a standard like MFT or even DX. I guess they were worried about it stealing sales from their larger offerings? This could have been a great addition to the MFT family, why Nikon, WHY?
@ cberry For practical purposes, what can it do better for a blogger than a G3/GF3?
Not sure there's enough bloggers to dedicate an entire new product line to.
Graystar: It's striking how ugly this system is...almost like someone said "let's see how ugly we can make it!"
I think the J1 looks ok, but on the V1, the EVF-hump and that whole upper lid on the case looks like a bloody amateur designed it.