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Joseph S Wisniewski
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Timmbits: Minor physical differences aside, I wonder if someone is going to issue a hack of the D3200 so it also does things that are in the d5200, like bracketing for example, which is purely a software decision - same production cost, but big selling price difference.
"defeaturing" generally costs more. You have more configurations to validate, and more complicated builds.
But to address Mr. Horton's question, not likely. The toolchain you need to hack Nikon cameras is complex, and the hacking community is small.
starwolfy: Come on ! What a crappy cam hahaha.
My Nikon V1 focus much faster than this and is 1000x cheaper...muhahaha
Comparing a medium format camera to a FF camera is like comparing a FF camera with DX...that makes no sense and people who stick to medium format just know why. Just sayin'
Actually, twizeel, you're the kid.
How could you miss the heavy-handed sarcasm in starwolfy's post?
Scorpius1: Leica S glass in extremely good,better than anything you can stick in front of your D800E and try syncing with strobes at 1/1000th sec with a D800... the IQ from the Leica S is superb,if you can't afford it or don't want to pay for it then buy something else but it wont change the fact that it produces super images...
Gasdive, you've got that backwards. FF is the larger telescope.
Let's pretend that the 70mm f2.5 Leica is a normal. It's not, but we'll pretend. 75mm/2.5 = 30mm.
Nikon and Sony have 50mm f1.4 normals. 50/1.4 = 35.7mm.
Canon has a 50mm f1.2. 50mm/1.2 = 41.7mm.
It's the same situation in every focal length range: the FF lenses have the larger apertures and the higher resolution limits. (Also the capability to achieve shallower DOF, if you're into that.
kkchiu215: I personally request Leica to manufacture the professional digital camera with GPS function year ago. So that all high quality photographs capture by this famous camera not only enjoyable to look at, but also become more scientific use. The location and real time recording for each individual image is absolutely very important in astro-photography as well as ordinary photography. We have to clearly document where and when each astronomy event happen on different parts of the world. By studying each photograph, we can measure the duration of each particular astro event as we observe from different place on earth.
Leica has successfully develop the new GPS feature in both medium and regular 135mm format camera. any photographer capture any kind of image, they can easily tell others where and when exactly they see the object with popular electronic map. Is that great?
Yeah, GPS is pretty important, which is why Nikon started putting GPS interfaces on DSLRs 15 years ago.
You know what else "is absolutely very important in astro-photography"? High ISO capability, liveview focusing, and low vibration shooting,
You know what isn't important, at all? A 55mm sensor diagonal when the clear path in most scopes is 47mm.
BobYIL: In two years +50MP sensors will find their way into the DSLR bodies. With Phase One and Leaf Credo already offering 80MP MF sensors I wonder how Leica S-series will survive with the smallest size 37MP MF sensor.
Where will they get such a sensor?
kkchiu215: Two accessories I hope Leica will develop in near future:
1) the S2 to M lens mount adapter, which convert all S2 medium format lenses to 135mm format M mount adapter, such that all Leica M series camera body can have a group of beautiful S type digital lenses to use.
2) An underwater housing to fit the auto focus S2 camera body for underwater digital photography. Flash light housing as well. I tried to fit the S2 unit to my Canon EOS 1D model housing, but the S2 body is just a little thicker.
The built in GPS feature also most suitable for underwater archaeology where we can determine exact location of any object we find below water.from pictures we take.
How can it be "most suitable" if GPS doesn't work underwater?
The S to M adapter would only work with the M 240 liveview mode. You can't focus S lenses with an M's spit image rangefinder, and the huge S lenses would block the M viewfinder.
MN13: Commenting on Joseph S Wisniewski''s post that one has to double the linear dimension in order to get the feeling of a format being really being different.
"Large" LF (large format), 8x10, has a 305mm diagonal - which is very close double of the diagonal of the "small" LF, 4x5. Another piece of evidence suggesting the need to double the the linear dimension in order to get the feeling of a format being really being different!
However, there is/was also an "intermediate" LF, namely 5x7. The diagonal of the 5x7 is 208mm, about 25% larger than 4x5. Although never as popular as the other two LF formats, it always has/had its followers and does/did exist along the the other two LF formats.
Leica's format - also having a diagonal 25% larger than the "Miniature" format - will it be the 5x7 of the "Miniature" format?
I think it reached exactly that point. If memory serves, the last run of 5x7 film from any maker was two years ago, and I'm pretty sure that no one is making new rear standards or film holders in that format, either.
tkpenalty: People comparing this to a D800 are just silly.
"nevermind the gulf between Full frame and Medium Format to begin with."
Indeed, there is no reason to "mind" it at all. Perceptual science says 100% larger is a "gulf". 25% larger is just a ditch. Or it would be, if the sensor technology in the two cameras were equivalent. The D800 sensor, a decade more advanced, is well more than 25% better, in every measurable way, than the antique in the S2.
So, "nevermind the gulf". because it's not actually there.
naththo: A little too late! There are D800 already out there. And there are plenty of it got 20-24mp now. They could have done it way back but the problem is bigger sensor than 35mm will cost you a lot more. I think atm 35mm DSLR is still very popular by the way. Those medium format is probably good for business. But for amateur, very few to compare. And oh btw there is a Pentax medium format at more affordable cost though.
None of the "tweener" models are, the 33x44mm $10k P1, "Leaf", and Blad offerings. Medium format doesn't really shine until you spring for one of the $30k bodies with the 40x53mm sensors, and then, the thing that grabs you is the huge pixel counts.
Pentax 645D makes sense, if you're coming from APS, and you want something that really feels different.
I was surprised at how little difference I felt with FF as far as sensors. The biggest difference is the lenses, and that's all due to FF being a relatively optimized SLR, 39mm back focus on a 43mm diagonal, so the normals and wides aren't too bad. APS, when you still have the 39mm back focus but cut the diagonal to 26-29mm, is an optical mess. There's never been an APS "normal zoom" as good as a classic Nikon 28-70mm was on FF, and the 24-70mm ups the game even more. It's much easier, across the board, primes or zooms, to put together a top-shelf system using FF. I was really hoping we'd have seen more progress in that area by now.
agentul: finally, Panasonic expands into medium format... just that it's not "medium format" in terms of size, because it's a smaller sensor than the standard.
the company making the Leica logo stickers is surely happy.
I'd expect companies like P1 to be hinting at CMOS, to try to slow their user exodus. But I wouldn't expect to see them actually commit to it and make statements about expected release dates, because I don't think there are any sensor suppliers prepared to roll it out.
Leica's supplier for the M sensor is CMOSIS, and they're moving in the opposite direction, 24x36mm sensors that are getting design wins over medium format sized TrueSense (formerly Kodak) and Teledyme (formerly DALSA, formerly Phillips) in document handling apps.
I'm anticipating the death of anything larger than FF in the commercial photography field inside of five years. Fortunately for P1, Adobe seems to be making room for P1 to transition into a software company.
t.c. marino: just saw the latest apple i phone comercial where "more pictures are taken with the i phone" than any CAMERA...lmao..
The real humor kicks in when you consider that, 15 years ago, more pictures were taken with single-use disposable cameras than any other type of camera.
GPW: NIKON D800!
Dylan, you have no idea where the "shock and awe" comes from in this industry. The camera is trivial.
If a client steps into my studio for a $5000 shoot, they'd be confronted by so many things that the cat-shooting uncle doesn't have, starting with people (a makeup artist and an assistant) to a setting (a three sided cyclorama) to lighting (two 6 foot Chimera soft boxes, on some whopping big stands, a beauty dish on a boom, two snooted hair lights).
mandophoto: The Leica S is one beautiful camera.
Ideas of beauty differ. I think the profile looks too much like a toaster.
naththo: A little too late! There are D800 already out there. And there are plenty of it got 20-24mp now. They could have done it way back but the problem is bigger sensor than 35mm will cost you a lot more. I think atm 35mm DSLR is still very popular by the way. Those medium format is probably good for business. But for amateur, very few to compare. And oh btw there is a Pentax medium format at more affordable cost though.
Emacs is correct. The sensor is 30x45mm, only 1.25x the size, 1.56x the area. If the sensor technology were equal to that of the FF cameras currently on the market (instead of years behind), the "punch" that Peter talks about would still be pretty much missing.
He used film as an analogy. That's a good analogy. There's a principle of psychohysics (perceptual science) that says you pretty much have to double something to get a feeling of it really being different. In the case of image size, that "something" is not area, which is what Leica yammers on about, but linear dimensions.
That's why, after years of thrashing about, the film market settled out to.
Miniature format - 35mm with a 43mm diagonal
Medium format - 6x6 with a 85mm diagonal
Large format - 4x5 with a 162mm diagonal
Doubling every time. That's what it takes, not 25%.
agentul: finally, Panasonic expands into medium format... just that it's not "medium format" in terms of size, because it's a smaller sensor than the standard.
the company making the Leica logo stickers is surely happy.
Panasonic has nothing to do with this. Their "Leica" products are licensed by "Leica Microsystems", the microscope company that owns the Leica name and the red dot.
Leica Microsystems also licenses the trademark to Leica Camera, a different company in a different country, stuck in the unenviable position of having to pretend that the Panasonic P&S cameras have something to do with them.
There won't be a mirrorless or video capable medium format camera by August. Not August 2013, 2015, or 2020.
Stock's down, and the volume trading is up. This is being met with disapproval outside of dpReview. ;)
LarryK: Ironically, the "Creative Cloud" is offline.
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Photato: Here is the real equivalence.
Canon 6D + CanonEF24-70 f2.8= $3700
Canon 60D+ Sigma18-35 f1.8= $1760 ($660+(1100)?
About $2000 left for other lenses and accessories...
And yet the 6D body can't control external flash nor has an articulated screen.
Given equal sensor technology, it is "always the case". That is what "through the history we've learnt". So, while it is true that the latest APS-C cameras can get results equivalent to older FF cameras, if you compare the current offerings, FF still is on top.
Photato: Here is the real equivalence.
Canon 6D + CanonEF24-70 f2.8= $3700
Canon 60D+ Sigma18-35 f1.8= $1760 ($660+(1100)?
About $2000 left for other lenses and accessories...
And yet the 6D body can't control external flash nor has an articulated screen.
"@vodanh1982. Lets get real,"
You keep using the word "real". I don't think it means what you think it means.
Photato: Here is the real equivalence.
Canon 6D + CanonEF24-70 f2.8= $3700
Canon 60D+ Sigma18-35 f1.8= $1760 ($660+(1100)?
About $2000 left for other lenses and accessories...
And yet the 6D body can't control external flash nor has an articulated screen.
That's only part of "real equivalence". How do you put a price on these things?
6D - bigger, brighter viewfinder
60D - hassles of carrying three lenses, with three different filter sizes, an extra 615g, the hassle of changing lenses, the need for a bag where you might have gotten away without one?