Snapper2013: So what Review score will DPR give these new Canon camera?
80 and Gold Award or 84 and no award. And don't forget the old favorites "a bit bulky compared to an iPhone", "Live View AF not faster than a speeding bullet" and "no Auto ISO and EV compensation in Manual Mode".
kodakrome: Cameras keep getting better...and the complaints keep getting louder.Someday someone will make a perfect camera, and everyone in the world will complain about it.
Yes, companies are making absolutely superb entry level DSLRs absolutely loaded with features and near pro level performance. God forbid they should be missing questionably necessary features like Exposure Compensation in Manual Mode or have bodies that don't fit in our favorite skinny jeans.
Tom Frerichs: I buy a camera body after considering how I'll use it. I want a fairly large buffer, a reasonable burst frame rate, reasonable low light capability, decent image quality, and a good AF system. The D7200, which replaces my older but still serviceable D7000, met those needs.
I should explain that I have a fairly substantial investment in Nikon glass, so I wasn't interested in switching brands. I should also add that I photograph sports, primarily rodeo, and some "urban landscape" stuff.
The lower rating given here doesn't affect my decision at all. Sorry, but I'll take phase detect AF over contrast detect AF any time. And, contrary to the authors' assertions, I have more success with 9 point AF over the 3D version, possibly because there often is little color differentiation between my subjects and the backgrounds.
I don't care about video, 4K or otherwise. There were other "features" that were considered sub-par that I don't give a damn about. The D7200 does what I need it to do.
Don't worry Tom, DPR also gave the D7000, a class leading, even ground breaking APS-C camera at the time, an essentially average award.
It seems DPR has been shifting their focus away from the enthusiast and pro DSLR shooters shooters like you (users who make up the majority of their readers and forum users) for number of years now. Their reviews often emphasize features their mostly mirrorless fan staff values (small size, live view shooting, casual video shooting) and often downplay the bread and butter features like IQ, DR, AF tracking, handling in the field. IMO, this make their makes their reviews extremely unreliable for shooters like us.
Anyway, the D7000 was a ground breaking DSLR, the first APS-C camera to ever to produce a full 14 EV of dynamic range, great colors, lovely viewfinder, and handling. DPR's insistence that it was essentially a mediocre camera award wise was the beginning of the end of caring about their opinion regarding camera gear (no offense guys).
marike6: The D7200 has class leading IQ, (20 points higher sensor quality score the Canon 70D on one of DPR's partners, DxOMark), improved the buffer size, improved AF down to -3EV, WIFI and gets a WORSE review and award than the Canon 70D and Nikon D7100? Lol.
And please cut the "bulky" silliness as a Con. It's a prosumer DSLR appropriately sized to handle well in the field with fast glass and zooms. Sigh.
Lastly, DPR had no right to delete my previous post, this is a free country and I'm giving my opinion which is echoed throughout this page.
@Rishi "You're right: it is a free country. Which has nothing to do with our website."
With that "like it or lump it" attitude, good luck with your website, web store and with staying relevant.
The fact is a prosumer DSLR is not a mirrorless camera. A prosumer DSLR is not a pro level video camera. The constant comparisons and emphasis on features and design choices that are mostly insignificant to the majority of DSLR enthusiasts does not reflect the wants and needs of your readers who happen to be DSLR shooters.
@Rishi Sanyal The fact is I made an observation in as polite terms as possible that this review and conclusion has a number of glaring inconsistencies (i.e., the D7200 is an improved version of the D7100, contains perhaps the best APS-C sensor ever made, WIFI, and received a lower rating than the D7100 and 70D, a camera that doesn't have anywhere near class leading IQ). And clearly one of the reviewers took offense and deleted my comment, even though my main points about the review score and questionable obsessing over marginally important features like LiveView AF and body size on a prosumer DSLR still camera, were echoed in many comments below. If long time readers are not allowed to analyze, criticize, and request explanations for inconsistencies across reviews, why have a comment section at all? Is the sole purpose of the comments for praise?
The D7200 has class leading IQ, (20 points higher sensor quality score the Canon 70D on one of DPR's partners, DxOMark), improved the buffer size, improved AF down to -3EV, WIFI and gets a WORSE review and award than the Canon 70D and Nikon D7100? Lol.
Guidenet: Personally, I think DPR puts way too much emphasis on Liveview and movies. This is mostly a still camera forum. I know some shoot video, but I'm not sure it's something to emphasize in cameras past a certain level. I know, Liveview is generally not very important at the higher level models. When many use Liveview it's on a tripod and/or macro work when you're looking for accuracy, not speed. For any action, it's eye-level. This is not targeted at beginners.
Maybe DPR would do well to look at their own polls. Since 2/3rd of the voters consider manual controls and interchangeable lenses the most important interest, maybe those type things should get 2/3rd of the emphasis. Since WiFi and Touch Screen have almost zero interest, maybe they and similar items shouldn't get much. Small size is a distant 3rd place. I think some might get caught up with a jaded view of what they believe is innovative without paying attention to what we want in a camera.
Agree completely. It's like they don't read their own forums. Too much Live View emphasis and too little on IQ. DxOMark has the D7200 a full 19 points better (87 to 68) than the Canon 70D in sensor rating, with the D7200 trouncing the 70D in DR, color depth and high ISO, and the 70D received a Gold Award 83%. It's laughable how an APS-C class leader with superb AF down to -3 EV can be given the mediocre Silver Award largely because of a marginally important still feature like LiveView AF.
The Fuji XT1 - terrible video, last generation 16 megapixel sensor and IQ issues like smoothing of detail and it got a Gold Award 84%. There is no consistency.
Lastly, the word "bulky" does not belong in the Cons list in a prosumer DSLR review. No way. No serious adult photographer wants to use a tiny DSLR body with typically large, fast glass. Please stop with the "bulky" nonsense. Since the D7000, the then class leader, DPR has been getting it wrong with Silver Awards.
ambercool: Why is everyone expecting so much from their cameras? If you want the perfect camera, just wait 10-12 more years and the curve will be much closer than we are now. I still have my first 5MP DSLR, and I was so excited when I got that. So every camera I've gotten after that is much appreciated.
@ambercool The NR and stepping apply to enough images to be worrisome and the overall sense of disappointment in these samples is palpable. No matter how you slice it, if early images from a highly anticipated camera do not at least equal a 5 year old GF2 or even smaller sensor cameras like the RX100, Nikon 1 or X30, people who have preordered this camera will object, and rightly so.
So objecting to NR obscuring fine detail or demosaicing artifacts like aliasing found in sample images in 2014 is called "expecting too much from your camera"? Really? Sounds like you are blaming people for expecting at least GF2 or EPL1 quality which so far we have not seen.
Austrian: 1.DP about the ISO dial : "The combination of its position and its lock means that you have to move your left hand away from supporting the lens, and you probably have to take your eye away from the viewfinder - both of which are unwelcome distractions from the experience of shooting." I never had the want to change ISO with my eye on the viewfinder. Who has it ?
2. DP about the Compensation dial " Unfortunately it's now too stiff to be easily turned by your right thumb with the camera to your eye, which we think is a step backwards."I hate my XE-1 because of his loose compensation dial. I will not check the right position before each shot. Stiffer can't be a step backwards - for me. What do you think about ?
Apparently DPR wants free spinning dials like pinwheels. The problem is on cameras like the XE-1 or the original X100, the loose dials mean ALWAYS having to check to make sure your exposure is zeroed out.
topstuff: Frankly, this is all the camera most people will ever need.
I am glad it is not full frame - the lenses would be too large.
I am happy that it is APSC - because in size it can rival m43 while offering better IQ. I think many people prefer the 3:2 format over 4:3 anyway.
EVF looks exceptional. I would take an EVF like this over OVF every time.
The mirror box is dead ! We can look forward to a time when cameras are smaller, our backs are stronger and we only need a small camera bag rather than a big one.
Fuji seem to have nailed this. Well done.
> The mirror box is dead!
Except for the fact that DSLRs outsell mirrorless cameras by a huge margin, not to mention the fact that almost ALL professional photographers use some form of DSLRs or SLR Medium Format. But other than that minor detail, hip hip hooray for the emergence of lousy EVFs and VF blackout. :-)
Do the mushy greens and heavy NR come standard? :-)
But seriously, it's all well and good to make another APS-C camera but with DSLR styling, but unless the RAW conversion issues with Lightroom are sorted (which they really aren't as of yet), it's going to be tough for RAW shooters to get excited about this body.
Doing command line RAW processing with dcraw or investing in yet another converter like Capture One is not all that appealing. Nor is shooting 8-bit JPEGs.
marike6: Locking exposure dials a la the Nikon Df? Any amount of money that DPR loves this camera and the dials from day one. :-)
Part of what makes the X cameras at least interesting is the rangefinder design, the whole poor man's Leica thing.
What is the point copying a DSLR body styling? It's has no bright Pentaprism so why the pseudo pentaprism housing?
This is a head scratcher move from Fujifilm that is for sure. No FF, just an X camera dressed up as a DSLR. Has anybody asked why?
> Do you really spend all your time shooting with your left hand on the top plate, not supporting the lens as it should be?
No but I do shoot 90% of the time tripod mounted, and shooting hand held, there is no problem at all supporting the camera with my right hand.
Besides, the Fujifilm XT-1 has the ISO dial in the EXACT same location on the left. I'm guessing this fact won't make it into a future XT1 review as a Con. :-)
But the XT1 has locking dials because Fujifilm, like Nikon, understands that photographers need to know that dials won't be inadvertently moved between exposures.
jtan163: The beginning of the end for DSLRs.
> I think Marike6 may be yabookie's wife...
Don't know who you or Yabookie is, but I do know that I already have a wife. And I also know that none of these pricey mirrorless niche cameras are a threat to DSLRs at all.
> What will bring the end of DSLR is cost
This X-T1 is going to cost near $1200, so you are talking near $2000 with the 18-55 f/2.8 or 35 f/1.4. Not exactly a frugal purchase.
Considering you can get a D610 FF for that near that price or a K-3 / D7100 for considerably less I don't see anything here that is going to change DSLR users over to the X system.
And the fact that none of the mirrorless vendors have any mindshare whatsoever with professionals, I can't imagine why anyone would assume these ILCs will mean anything at all for DSLR sales, which are still absolutely creaming mirrorless camera sales.
> don't image that's true for Samsung. Or Leica.
Samsung's camera division is close to last place in mirrorless camera sales, and Leica makes rangefinders, not mirrorless cameras (besides, Leica has but a tiny percentage of the camera market).
> We criticised it for the fact that the ISO and exposure compensation dials require a change of grip
You guys seem to be the ONLY ones who had difficulty with the changing ISO on the Df. This video shows it to be quite easy to unlock and rotate the ISO without altering your grip. Push with thumb, spin with forefinger.
You guys did a subpar effort with your Nikon Df Preview and Review. You were negative and unprofessional from day one with "the Nikon Df is silly" nonsense. And now that you are going to most assuredly characterize this new Fujifilm wannabe DSLR as some game changing retro done right camera when it has the exact same locking dials and maximum 1/4000 shutter as the Nikon Df that you criticized even before you reviewed it?
I have an X-E1 and the EV Comp dial gets inadvertently moved all the time. Like the original X100, the dial is poorly implemented. But you knew that already.
From this camera?
We keep hearing about the "end of DSLRs", but DSLRs seem to be the ONLY large sensor cameras that are selling in any numbers at all.
All of the mirrorless vendors are in deep trouble financially and there is nothing about a niche camera from Fujifilm that will change this fact at all.
Locking exposure dials a la the Nikon Df? Any amount of money that DPR loves this camera and the dials from day one. :-)
Richard Murdey: You almost feel sorry for Nikon. Almost.
Why, because of this an APS-C mirrorless? A different body style with the same X-Pro1 / X-E1 internals?
So instead of making a FF, Fujifilm is dressing up an X-Pro1 to look like a DSLR. Trust me, it's not Nikon that needs your pity.
If these are the "best of 2013" it's clearly not been a banner year for cameras.
With the EM-1 you get free shutter shock and one of the smallest sensors for any crop sensor camera. The X100s took the excellent X100 and saddled it with X-Trans RAW conversion issues, and the K-3 is an excellent APS-C camera at a time when most advanced amateurs and professionals are shooting FF.
These polls give DPR another tool for advertiser banners like "DPR Reader's Poll Best of 2103" that we see in magazines and e-commerce sites. So in a sense they symbolize the growing commercialization of this website. Content like this is ultimately tied to Gear Shop which is fine if that's the direction they want to go, but kind of a turn off for readers.