Kodachrome200: I wanna love these mirrorless camera's but they always seem to miss the mark by a bit. With an aps-c sensor physics is going to require that the lenses are essentially dslr sized. this makes the camera only marginally more portable.
The micro 4/3rds seems to be the right balance. but there are still some wierd issues. Like the fact that you can't get a thin profile standard prime for it. witch oddly enough you can for the large 4/3rds cameras. And dont say use an adapter, the is too big. Also the only 4/3rds camera that is reasonably small and acceptably powerfull is the olympus e-pl3. witch comes with a kit zoom that is not pocket sized. and you CANT buy it without it. (witch makes me ask what about upgraders?). I like that panasonic pancake zoom lens. combined with a small standard prime that was also pocket sized you could have a lot of photo power in your pocket.
This new sony is massive in the world of camera thats only justification is they are more portable though.
I have both a
NEX 7, Sigma 19/2.8, Sony Zeiss 24/1.8, Sony 50/1.8 + kit lens E-P3, Oly 12/2, Pan 20/1.7, Oly 45/1.8 + kit lens
For IQ the NEX7 wins hands down. What with the sigma 30/2.8 there is a great lens line up evolving. With the Zeiss 24, for landscapes, it gives my 5D2 a run for its money. I use this for hiking/travel.
For for focus speed, the E-P3 wins hands down. I use this for people shots where 12mp is enough - family friends portraits etc.
Two different systems, both with pros and cons. Both cameras with kit lenses attached - practically identical in size.
If I had to choose once system? I'd go with the NEX...
Direct link |
Posted on May 17, 2012 at 09:37:39 UTC
Richt2000: Thank you DPR for a great review. Wow what a camera. Canon and Sony have a new benchmark to work to! I'll stick with my 5DII and see what Canon offers over the next 12 months.
Cant believe the negative comments on here - some very sad people hang out at DPR forums these days.
Agreed. Exciting times if Sony really want to compete. It will take another 3-5 years though, at this rate, to work with photographers to become a photographer's company rather than a general electronics company. I cannot wait until the day that their camera's have the usability and ergonomics that Canon and Nikon have.
Direct link |
Posted on May 9, 2012 at 21:32:24 UTC
Thank you DPR for a great review. Wow what a camera. Canon and Sony have a new benchmark to work to! I'll stick with my 5DII and see what Canon offers over the next 12 months.
Cant believe the negative comments on here - some very sad people hang out at DPR forums these days.
Direct link |
Posted on May 9, 2012 at 15:54:57 UTC
as 76th comment
| 3 replies
OldArrow: To my sorrow, it's another Almost... Imagine waterproofing that is working to the pressure of 1.2 bar, and how little it takes to make something really usable to divers (i.e. being able to resist pressures of 5 bar)! Taking photos within 12 meters depth is really frustrating if you want to do more than dive in apnea or just snorkle. There is no excuse for any manufacturer who wants their products to be interesting to outdoors people, for not yet being able to make a proper amphibious camera which would be at least as usable as ancient Nikonos, including Nikon who already has two excellent casings, - III and V - easily adaptable to digital technology... And adding an underwater housing to an underwater camera is just as laughable as having extra Pet modes for Cats and Dogs. While having none for Parrots, for instance. The whole idea of an u/w camera is to finally get rid of the housing, which is just another piece of equipment one has to buy and take care of...
Yep, This will be a perfect camera for snorkelling (if the autofocus is nice and fast like an EP3), beach, skiing, mountain biking...
Direct link |
Posted on May 8, 2012 at 14:59:00 UTC
I can't understand the bashing on DPR these days. Fuji are one of the really inovative companies. Give them credit for producing cameras for photographers rather than soccer moms! Yes it has flaws, but so does the NEX7, m43, each DSLR.
It's not just Fuji getting a bashing - the Canon forum has been a joke of late.
All these people moaning come across as really spoilt brats. Appreciate every camera for what it does well! If you can't add some constructive critique with negative comments, don't bother!
Direct link |
Posted on Apr 4, 2012 at 07:55:06 UTC
as 43rd comment
| 2 replies
nicolaiecostel: Just took a look at the High ISO images, it looks better than my D700 by some margin and the sharpness in some pics is great. Too bad it's an amateurish-hipsterish kind of camera.
Is it? Because of the styling? The X-pan was a hipster's camera? And the 6x7?
Direct link |
Posted on Apr 3, 2012 at 23:59:34 UTC
ljfinger: Not much difference - 5DIII, D800, D4 (I'm looking at the raw files). They all look pretty darned good. ISO 25,600 on any of them looks a lot like ISO 400 film - that's 6 stops of difference!
You can get down into the very deep details and say stuff like the 5DIII is a touch better in the mids and brights, the D800 a touch better in the darks, the 5DIII has a little better retention of low-contrast detail, the D800 has a little better retention of fine detail. But, honestly, these differences are very slight even looking as we are here at the equivalent of a 60x40 inch print viewed from 18 inches away!
+1
Direct link |
Posted on Mar 28, 2012 at 14:00:43 UTC
Looks a great great camera. However this won't sell like the 5D2 did:
- Many 5D2 owners won't upgrade like they did from 5D1 to 5D2 - D800/D800e will be more appealing for Landscape and Studio people going into a system from scratch - More expensive than 5D2 on launch dates
If I was still working a 5D1 and already had L glass, I'd buy it, but as a happy 5D2 / 1DsIII owner, This will be the first time in 10 years I don't crave for any of the latest full frame Canon offerings.
Direct link |
Posted on Mar 28, 2012 at 13:58:55 UTC
as 81st comment
| 2 replies
From a base ISO pov, no real improvement. NEX 7 clearly outresolves it up until ISO 800 for 1/3 of the price....
I'll stick with my Canon 5D2 for landscapes, thanks.
Direct link |
Posted on Mar 28, 2012 at 13:37:59 UTC
as 91st comment
| 1 reply
On preview
(752 comments in total)
Hi DPR, any eta for the studio samples in the comparison tool to be added to the preview? The camera is available on the high st now.... Many thanks, keep up the great work.
Direct link |
Posted on Mar 26, 2012 at 10:37:45 UTC
as 65th comment
Why is DPR publishing pre-prod camera when a prod camera is available on the high st? Canon to tight to lend the biggest and most trusted camera review site a $3000 cam? Or is amazon too tight to give Dpr a cam to test????
Direct link |
Posted on Mar 24, 2012 at 09:58:13 UTC
as 58th comment
| 1 reply
Greg Lovern: Clearly this was developed with limited resources under Hoya's thumb. It may appeal to the form-before-function crowd who buy fashion statements not photographic tools, but it will have very little appeal to enthusiasts.
Just wait to see what Ricoh can do with Pentax; we haven't seen any results of Ricoh's ownership yet. I predict that this September at Photokina a K-mount module for the GXR will be announced, and once that product is released, I think we'll soon see a quiet end to the K-01.
Hear hear. I just read your post after writing mine.
Direct link |
Posted on Mar 22, 2012 at 00:11:08 UTC
Surelly the whole point of mirrorless is to have the same quality IQ of DSLR but in a small package. This is just mirrorless because they have done away with the mirror. Either Pentax has missed the point, or I have. This to me is a half hearted attempt at joining a market segment without real investment, after totally flopping with a interchangable system with compact IQ! Oh stick to the 645D, pentax, that is what you do best :-)
Direct link |
Posted on Mar 22, 2012 at 00:09:30 UTC
as 128th comment
| 1 reply
Richt2000: Gulp. With diffraction limiting the benefits of this sensor to f8 then, as a landscaper I'd need a suite of tilt shift lenses for anything over super wide angle.
Yes but with a Tilt-shift you can get front to back in focus at f5.6 in situations where you would need to shoot at f11-f14 on a 'regular' lens.
Direct link |
Posted on Mar 20, 2012 at 12:59:53 UTC
Gulp. With diffraction limiting the benefits of this sensor to f8 then, as a landscaper I'd need a suite of tilt shift lenses for anything over super wide angle.
Direct link |
Posted on Mar 20, 2012 at 11:47:30 UTC
as 79th comment
| 12 replies
antoineb: Duly shot at f11 where diffraction must be a clear issue - why?
of course the test scene needs f11 for enough DOF - but surely this cannot take precedence over the need to deliver relevant results?
as it stands, these shots at f11 will suffer from diffraction BEFORE they show limits of the sensor resolution.
therefore these are cute test shots - but they're essentially useless.
These should be re-done at f5.6
So if it needs to be used at f8, landscapers are going to need a full set of tilt shift lenses to benefit from that sensor. Ouch, the cost just went up !!!!!!
Direct link |
Posted on Mar 20, 2012 at 11:42:20 UTC
An appealing camera. But would I upgrade from a 5d2? Not at that price. From a 5D, maybe, but £3k is no longer an affordable full frame. Hell, I paid £3750 for a brand new 1ds3!!!
It seems to be a minor upgrage for the 1ds and 5d range mainly in areas of high iso noise. Great for wedding photogs, but not worthy of finding £3k for landscape photographers.
Anyway my few thousand will probably go on a 24-70ii if its as shap as my 30 year old adapted Zeiss 35-70/3.4 !!!
Direct link |
Posted on Mar 2, 2012 at 08:22:30 UTC
as 68th comment
United Kingdom
Kodachrome200: I wanna love these mirrorless camera's but they always seem to miss the mark by a bit. With an aps-c sensor physics is going to require that the lenses are essentially dslr sized. this makes the camera only marginally more portable.
The micro 4/3rds seems to be the right balance. but there are still some wierd issues. Like the fact that you can't get a thin profile standard prime for it. witch oddly enough you can for the large 4/3rds cameras. And dont say use an adapter, the is too big. Also the only 4/3rds camera that is reasonably small and acceptably powerfull is the olympus e-pl3. witch comes with a kit zoom that is not pocket sized. and you CANT buy it without it. (witch makes me ask what about upgraders?). I like that panasonic pancake zoom lens. combined with a small standard prime that was also pocket sized you could have a lot of photo power in your pocket.
This new sony is massive in the world of camera thats only justification is they are more portable though.
I have both a
NEX 7, Sigma 19/2.8, Sony Zeiss 24/1.8, Sony 50/1.8 + kit lens
E-P3, Oly 12/2, Pan 20/1.7, Oly 45/1.8 + kit lens
For IQ the NEX7 wins hands down. What with the sigma 30/2.8 there is a great lens line up evolving. With the Zeiss 24, for landscapes, it gives my 5D2 a run for its money. I use this for hiking/travel.
For for focus speed, the E-P3 wins hands down. I use this for people shots where 12mp is enough - family friends portraits etc.
Two different systems, both with pros and cons.
Both cameras with kit lenses attached - practically identical in size.
If I had to choose once system? I'd go with the NEX...
Richt2000: Thank you DPR for a great review.
Wow what a camera. Canon and Sony have a new benchmark to work to!
I'll stick with my 5DII and see what Canon offers over the next 12 months.
Cant believe the negative comments on here - some very sad people hang out at DPR forums these days.
Agreed. Exciting times if Sony really want to compete. It will take another 3-5 years though, at this rate, to work with photographers to become a photographer's company rather than a general electronics company. I cannot wait until the day that their camera's have the usability and ergonomics that Canon and Nikon have.
Thank you DPR for a great review.
Wow what a camera. Canon and Sony have a new benchmark to work to!
I'll stick with my 5DII and see what Canon offers over the next 12 months.
Cant believe the negative comments on here - some very sad people hang out at DPR forums these days.
OldArrow: To my sorrow, it's another Almost...
Imagine waterproofing that is working to the pressure of 1.2 bar, and how little it takes to make something really usable to divers (i.e. being able to resist pressures of 5 bar)! Taking photos within 12 meters depth is really frustrating if you want to do more than dive in apnea or just snorkle. There is no excuse for any manufacturer who wants their products to be interesting to outdoors people, for not yet being able to make a proper amphibious camera which would be at least as usable as ancient Nikonos, including Nikon who already has two excellent casings, - III and V - easily adaptable to digital technology...
And adding an underwater housing to an underwater camera is just as laughable as having extra Pet modes for Cats and Dogs. While having none for Parrots, for instance. The whole idea of an u/w camera is to finally get rid of the housing, which is just another piece of equipment one has to buy and take care of...
Yep,
This will be a perfect camera for snorkelling (if the autofocus is nice and fast like an EP3), beach, skiing, mountain biking...
I can't understand the bashing on DPR these days. Fuji are one of the really inovative companies. Give them credit for producing cameras for photographers rather than soccer moms! Yes it has flaws, but so does the NEX7, m43, each DSLR.
It's not just Fuji getting a bashing - the Canon forum has been a joke of late.
All these people moaning come across as really spoilt brats. Appreciate every camera for what it does well! If you can't add some constructive critique with negative comments, don't bother!
nicolaiecostel: Just took a look at the High ISO images, it looks better than my D700 by some margin and the sharpness in some pics is great. Too bad it's an amateurish-hipsterish kind of camera.
Is it? Because of the styling?
The X-pan was a hipster's camera? And the 6x7?
ljfinger: Not much difference - 5DIII, D800, D4 (I'm looking at the raw files). They all look pretty darned good. ISO 25,600 on any of them looks a lot like ISO 400 film - that's 6 stops of difference!
You can get down into the very deep details and say stuff like the 5DIII is a touch better in the mids and brights, the D800 a touch better in the darks, the 5DIII has a little better retention of low-contrast detail, the D800 has a little better retention of fine detail. But, honestly, these differences are very slight even looking as we are here at the equivalent of a 60x40 inch print viewed from 18 inches away!
+1
Looks a great great camera. However this won't sell like the 5D2 did:
- Many 5D2 owners won't upgrade like they did from 5D1 to 5D2
- D800/D800e will be more appealing for Landscape and Studio people going into a system from scratch
- More expensive than 5D2 on launch dates
If I was still working a 5D1 and already had L glass, I'd buy it, but as a happy 5D2 / 1DsIII owner, This will be the first time in 10 years I don't crave for any of the latest full frame Canon offerings.
From a base ISO pov, no real improvement. NEX 7 clearly outresolves it up until ISO 800 for 1/3 of the price....
I'll stick with my Canon 5D2 for landscapes, thanks.
Hi DPR, any eta for the studio samples in the comparison tool to be added to the preview? The camera is available on the high st now....
Many thanks, keep up the great work.
More like when they saw Canon had priced the 5d3 at £3k, they thought they could get away with increasing thier proftits...
Why is DPR publishing pre-prod camera when a prod camera is available on the high st? Canon to tight to lend the biggest and most trusted camera review site a $3000 cam? Or is amazon too tight to give Dpr a cam to test????
Greg Lovern: Clearly this was developed with limited resources under Hoya's thumb. It may appeal to the form-before-function crowd who buy fashion statements not photographic tools, but it will have very little appeal to enthusiasts.
Just wait to see what Ricoh can do with Pentax; we haven't seen any results of Ricoh's ownership yet. I predict that this September at Photokina a K-mount module for the GXR will be announced, and once that product is released, I think we'll soon see a quiet end to the K-01.
Hear hear. I just read your post after writing mine.
Surelly the whole point of mirrorless is to have the same quality IQ of DSLR but in a small package. This is just mirrorless because they have done away with the mirror. Either Pentax has missed the point, or I have. This to me is a half hearted attempt at joining a market segment without real investment, after totally flopping with a interchangable system with compact IQ! Oh stick to the 645D, pentax, that is what you do best :-)
Richt2000: Gulp. With diffraction limiting the benefits of this sensor to f8 then, as a landscaper I'd need a suite of tilt shift lenses for anything over super wide angle.
Yes but with a Tilt-shift you can get front to back in focus at f5.6 in situations where you would need to shoot at f11-f14 on a 'regular' lens.
Gulp. With diffraction limiting the benefits of this sensor to f8 then, as a landscaper I'd need a suite of tilt shift lenses for anything over super wide angle.
antoineb: Duly shot at f11 where diffraction must be a clear issue - why?
of course the test scene needs f11 for enough DOF - but surely this cannot take precedence over the need to deliver relevant results?
as it stands, these shots at f11 will suffer from diffraction BEFORE they show limits of the sensor resolution.
therefore these are cute test shots - but they're essentially useless.
These should be re-done at f5.6
So if it needs to be used at f8, landscapers are going to need a full set of tilt shift lenses to benefit from that sensor. Ouch, the cost just went up !!!!!!
JackM: I'm in. But Canon, didn't you get the memo? The D800 only costs $3000.
In the UK, the D800 is £2300 and the 5D3, £3000 !!!
Thats nearly a 1/3 more!
cdidd: omg this moire on the jacket...
Maybe it was shot with a D800e !!!
An appealing camera. But would I upgrade from a 5d2? Not at that price. From a 5D, maybe, but £3k is no longer an affordable full frame. Hell, I paid £3750 for a brand new 1ds3!!!
It seems to be a minor upgrage for the 1ds and 5d range mainly in areas of high iso noise. Great for wedding photogs, but not worthy of finding £3k for landscape photographers.
Anyway my few thousand will probably go on a 24-70ii if its as shap as my 30 year old adapted Zeiss 35-70/3.4 !!!