I've been waiting for this review.
I love my 808 but will dump it in a heart beat if there is something significantly better.
Unfortunately this review has no IQ comparisons against the 808.
(that I could find, if I'm wrong tell me the page number and I will cower in shame).
I thought y'all reviewed the 808 as one of your first reviews? How can I get a comparison of the 1020 and 808 test shots? Your selectoramoter does not include the 808.
Also you state the sensor of the 1020 is "slightly smaller"than the 808s. That's sort of an exageration. I've seen anything from 30 to 50% smaller. What's the exact size difference?
hoousi: Good article, and very true. Though I left DSLRS one year ago I'm back now, my main subject being three running children I just need the AF of DSLR at least for the next few years... But the X100s just tempts me too much for events where my DSLR is too big the the iPhone inadequate.
this. Notice how not a single ain't life great without a DSLR picture could be considered an "action shot".
My various P&S are miserable keeping up with the kids. The DSLR has issues but at least it can hang in there most days.
You sort of misrepresent the entire original article.
While he does rant against traditional, hard to moderate, sucky comment systems, the main thrust of the article is not to banish comments altogether. The main thrust is to suggest outsourcing comments to 3rd party commenting systems such as branch. com and kinja. com, systems which facilitate moderation by the author and the commenting community.
dpreview is slowly trying to improve commenting in it's own homegrown system with the "like"s. If you made the best comments (such as this one) bubble to the top of the comments that feature might actually be useful.
BTW I love comments even though I barely read any of them. Just the fact that one of your news items is heavily commented on tells me it may be worth looking at, even if the title does not initially catch my interest.
Are STM lenses slower to focus? Would that be an issue using this lens for sports?
I was one of the canon faithful (Y2K S100, SD780, S95, 300HS, S100 owner) but I think I'll be moving on now.
It may be silly for the purist here but I'm pretty upset that there is still no auto/sweep panorama mode. I've played with the competition and it's really really nice to be able to make a pano on the fly.
Gosh even my iphone can make a nice panoramic image and because of that I would often use my iphone even though I'm carrying my S100.
Like everyone else, I'm a bit disappointed in the lack any innovation here, especially in regards to the sensor. I can stomach that on a P&S for FB/email snaps but I can't stomach having to spend time in PP just to get a little bit wider.
Mikhail Tal: Why is Andy Westlake reviewing some obscure gadget that is going to interest a tiny group of people, instead of one of the overdue mirrorless camera reviews like GF6, G6, NEX-5R, NEX-3N, E-PL5, etc? Obviously this is somewhat shorter than a camera review but it seems very strange to prioritize a niche product over a camera with much broader appeal, especially on DPR.
" it lets you do the same thing that you can already do with every other camera maker's lenses."
This is untrue. I have a T2i and a buggy canon 40mm. Canon does not support flashing the lens's firmware with the T2i. Having a cheap dohicky by canon would mitigate the issue of canon dropping support for older hardware.
mrdancer: Hmmm, 5-axis stabilization...
B-b-b-b-b-b-but......, image blur hides the noise! :)
Lotsa nice features/tricks in this camera, but nothing that couldn't be done by Android apps. Still waiting for more decent cameras to utilize Android OS so we can have some real individuality and creativity via various apps.
I would be very happy if the Panny FZ300 bridge had latest Android OS, 1/1.7" sensor and 18x zoom, while maintaining F2 throughout.
p.s. - the 'droid cameras also need onboard GPS/gyros for shooting geocoded panoramas!
Android can do OIS with an app? Slick.....
white shadow: There are just too many people who are concern over whether a particular camera gets a gold award or a silver award. The review and conclusion is just more information about the camera. Different users will place importance on different aspect of a camera. Ultimately, if you think that a particular camera suits your requirement and budget, buy it and if doesn't buy another.
The 100D is only one of the choices and its good to have them.
"Except for the fact that camera companies themselves are now using the "DPR Gold Award" logo in their advertisements in Pop Photography and on Amazon. So these awards have a direct impact on sales."
Exactly. One nice thing is that this review has done a good job highlighting how useless and irrelevant the gold award is. It's a "I felt like it" award and means nothing unless you know and/or respect the photographer.
mpgxsvcd: I really wish Canon could shrink their lenses instead of shrinking their cameras.
Yet somehow pentax manages to churn out small lenses with great IQ.
Even canons attempt at a pancake lens is a monster compared to pentaxes.
And then there is the Panasonic "power zoom". Or just make more EF-S lenses; for most of the lineup you are paying for glass you don't use when you use a crop sensor....
cmvsm: How does the Canon score a Gold Award at 78%, yet the Nikon D5200 scored 79%, but received a Silver Award? Furthermore, all other cameras reviewed within the last year, that scored a 79 or above, all received Gold Awards, except for the Nikon D5200.
I really could care less either way, just trying to understand DVR's scoring/rating system, as its a bit inconsistent.
"is deserves a gold because," but for you to get the gist of the message, which repeatedly mentions its LV AF abilities "
But the LV AF abilities are only realized when we buy all new STM lenses? And that selection is limited to 3 lenses at this point?
And even though the AF is improved, and may be useable, according to most reviewers it lags way behind the competition.
So we have a slightly smaller T5i with a slightly less horrible LV AF (if we buy all new lenses) = gold? Still don't get it Shawn and reading these comments, I'm not the only one.
I don't believe the payola stuff, but I've handled the Sl1 (it's not that much smaller than my 350d) so we are all fairly confused as to how such minor improvements (with severe STM restrictions) and practically no IQ improvement and a 5 year old sensor that is way behind the competition ranked a Gold.
The "it's a gold because I liked it" really sort of degrades the whole rating scheme.
miketala: I wonder how this compares with a Panasonic G6. G6 i understand would have better video, but similar body styles. the m43 lenses would be smaller. THough the G6 sensor is a bit old it's fairly similar to the Canon with its older sensor.
"By Plastek (7 hours ago)100d on the other hand got one enormous advantage over G6: HUGE choice of lenses."
Exactly how many STM lenses are there? Without the STM AF in video or live view is total garbage putting it again way behind the G6.
"Oh, wait, there's another one: Larger sensor, meaning more options to control depth of field (especially when matched with trio of f/1.4 primes)."
Small DOF is not necessailly a good thing. For example taking picture of my kids running around in the evening I want something fast with a huge DOF. Using a F1.4 lens (I have both the 50 and 30) is frustrating because if you actually use the F1.4 aperature your DOF is about as thick as a piece of paper. Having a fast lens and a bigger DOF would let me have my cake and eat it too. G6 wins again.
So canon is great if you are taking artsy pictures of flowers and want to swim in a dreamy bokeh. For real life the G6 wins...
Shawn Barnet regarding
"If you read the review, I explain repeatedly why it deserves a gold."
I went through the entire review page by page and the word gold does not appear once.
Perhaps you use a graphic for gold that my search tool is not finding?
I'm also confused as to why this got the gold. It's simply a T2i,T3i,T4i,T5i in a smaller package. More of the same old stuff, no IQ improvements just smaller. The RAW scores reflect this and you are nodding as you read the review, then see the gold and have a "say what?" moment....
Marty4650: You really have to wonder.... if mini DSLRs like the SL1 existed five years ago, would there be so much interest in high end MILC cameras today?
It is indeed smaller and more portable, but may be still to large (especially in thickness) for people who want really small cameras.
I think Canon has a good product here, but it arrived too late to the party.
Still... it makes a very nice second camera for people who own a 70D or 7D and have plenty of EOS lenses...
But they did have SLRs like this 5 years ago. The Canon Rebel 350D and 400D are basically the same size.
Matt1645f4: @ Shawn Barnett "added to the Rebel's well-established quality it's a clear gold award." How??? DXO scoring system which DPR seems happy to mention frequently rates the 100D's sensor at 63!! a full 16 points lower than the Pentax K50 (which is weather sealed) and its Big Brothers the K5/5II/5IIs which is scored 82. The only APS-C cameras with a higher score are the Nikon D5200 & 7100. So please tell me how its image Quality is Well established? i've tried a Canon 700D and was far from impressed with its quality over my Pentax K5's.
"but there's a huge difference in sensor quality between this and Similar budget cameras according to DXO."
Yes the K-50 at $775 is $25 more than the Sl1 at $750. Way more expensive, no way should they be comparing them Apples with Apples.
keeponkeepingon: A slew of these pre-views hit the web today but no site is comparing against the 808.
Question: Was that a condition on getting an early 1020? Not even nokia is offering comparisons.
Thanks for the reply! I should have been more explicit, no site is comparing images to the 808.
Can't wait for the studi comparisons, but will these be "normalized" to 8mp, or was that just the DXO mark comparisons?
A slew of these pre-views hit the web today but no site is comparing against the 808.
keeponkeepingon: "Although the 1020's sensor is around 30% smaller than the one found in the 808, it's still larger than the 1/1.7" type found in most high-end enthusiast compact cameras. The Lumia 1020's aperture is also 1/3EV faster (F2.2 vs F2.4), which makes up for much of the difference in sensor size."
1/3EV makes up for a 30% reduction in sensor size? I'd love to see the math behind that one.....
I was very excited about this camera but then disappointed in the smaller sensor. I'll believe they compensated for the 30% reduction in size when I can compare some samples side by side, until then my guess is it's slightly worse and no better than the 808.
This also gave me a chuckle:"the 808 performed only slightly better than a 5-year-old-camera"
Let me rewrite that for you:
"The 808, amazingly, performed better than 2007's Canon G9, a camera that dpreview claimed was "as it gets in a compact camera".
The "revolution" is that they are cramming a sensor physically larger than that used in the G15/X10 into a cell phone. "that was 2007?" I will gladly take the IQ of a G9 in my go anywhere fits in my pocket and makes phone calls/gets email device.
Sorry about the typo above. "as it gets"?
Here's the actual dpreview quote:"IQ-wise the G9 is about as good as it gets in a compact camera"
"Although the 1020's sensor is around 30% smaller than the one found in the 808, it's still larger than the 1/1.7" type found in most high-end enthusiast compact cameras. The Lumia 1020's aperture is also 1/3EV faster (F2.2 vs F2.4), which makes up for much of the difference in sensor size."
natna: 5mp pureview is SMALLLL!
Nokias 85% jpeg "super fine" quality is a joke.I have both N8 and 808 and in good lighting conditions untill sunset, I use 100% jpeg quality from third party camera apps. And iso 100. 12mp ---> 10mb super quality files! What a great start for post processing in my PC!Twice the pixel peeping image quality.
Not impressed from the new sensor so far.OIS is surely great.
The nokia camera app is great ui. Fast and very promising. Shutter control and 4secs is epic!
The lens on my 808 is almost flawless for a wide angle lens. There is a wide variation in lens quality in 808 devices.Let's hope the 1020 will have better quality control.
The accessory grip is a great idea!And the true innovation, in wp platform, is the stereo rich recording!
Which camera app do you recommend for the 808?
Also, how did you test your lens as "flawless?". I have a few more days on my 808 return window, I'm pretty happy with the IQ to my untrained eye, but it would be nice to know if it could be better.