dennis tennis: Like most threads on DPR, this has degenerated into a spitting contest between 7Dmk2 vs A77mk2 fanboys. "What is it with boys with toys?"
This is a gear forum, I thought that is what we do. Can I add Samsung NX1 to the mix?
SulfurousBeast: Did I say this already...? Canon which had missed the boat 3 years ago had one good (and last may be...) to catch up, but stumbled woefully short on this one. I was patient for 5 years not making a jump however irrresitable it was becoming. Now it is all clear... Time to jump. Just an enthusiast but still with about $6k worth Canon gear....Craigslist is calling....to be honest, would have stayed if it had the D7100 sensor, video not crippled, rather one that takes advantage of the dual pixel AF and a touch screen. So close, but still Canon chose to play the dirty game with its APSC customers.
Wedded? Couldn't you just sell the equipment and move on. Esp for some people, where some of the lens are rarely used after purchase.
Serious Sam: Oh dear…… What a total different reception when compare to the D750. I have read about ⅓ of the comments and how different the comments are. Fanboys fighting, product and brand bashing, reviewer criticism. Compare to most of the comments on the D750 when the majority is just happy to see a solid good product.
Lets start with DPR, I think the only mistake they have done is not comparing 7D2 with A77M2. These two are (imo) the only two current model that can compare head to head. Many requested this before but the DPR team seems to have ignored this. VERY DISAPPOINTING!!
I do love the test DPR do with the EV pushing of the RAW files. It shows what I had been saying for a long time that when you rate noise performance, you have to look at the RAW file (except Fuji). If ones RAW file is junk, you will end up with junk.
Pls add Samsung NX1 to the test. From the various reviews of the NX1, I can tell the NX1 both IQ and video are at the top of the APSC class. So I am more interested in the AF comparison,esp AF tracking. I have seem review saying high focus rate using 15fps, I would like to see DPR confirm that or otherwise. Samsung does a good job of firmware upgrade so maybe can wait for further tweak of firmware first before the test.
le_alain: A firmware update for the A7, to have A7II improva AF will be welcome.
You are taking it too literally, it just mean that Sony is not the best in handing out firmware upgrade. They don't do a very good job of keeping the old customers happy compare to other brands.
I just got a RX100, while search for firmware to upgrade, I found this joke. The firmware upgrade for RX100 is RX100 mk2 and mk3. This is how Sony works, just get a new camera, unless there is some serious screw up. I have got much better firmware upgrade experience from Samsung and Fuji.
Aroart: Check out Sony a 5100,, it beats all these cameras in cleanet high iso.. See for your self it was even better than the a6000,,, yea yea I know its the same sencer.. A5100 also has a realy nice video newer codec than a6000...
You might want to change your monitor, A5100 and A6000 has the exact same sensor and the studio image looks the same. The studio image also show the NX1 28mp BSI has the highest resolution with around 1/2 stop better noise than the A6000, Fuji XT1 has the cleanest high iso but also the lowest resolution (not yet adjust for Fuji overstate iso)
shutterbud: The Nikon 1 was included but the Sony A6000 was not? That is wrong. The Nikon 1 is a compact camera; a vastly overpriced compact camera which produces compact camera IQ. The A6000 produces images on a par with anything short of full-frame and handles well. Its ommision is a huge oversight. Small, fast, light-weight and fantastic IQ is the very definition of the enthusiast mirrorless camera category. NX1? Nikon 1? I don't think so. I very nearly bought the GH4 but it was too much money for a DSLR with a shrunken sensor. Unless one is invested heavily in lenses or has decided to get good at video, it makes a lot more sense to buy a D5300 or K3 and decent lens instead. DPR is definitely getting confused. As to the category system, I agree it is messed up. It should be "What can I get for X dollars?" or "How much must I spend to do this?" Not "Does it have a mirror?"
The A6000 uses 15 cross-type AF points vs NX1 153 cross-type points ( 7Dmk2 has 65 points). A6000 burst is 11 fps vs NX1 15 fps. The higher cost of NX1 is due to its enthusiast nature and is actually price lower than GH4.I would agree the A6000 is good value however, but for me, I will wait for the Samsung NX400 with the same 28mp BSI sensor, which I think is best in class.
Adrian Van: I would have put the XT1 as number 1 and EM1 as second or close to first. XT1 may edge for APSC sensor overall image quality and low noise in low light, however the lens range available on Olympus EM1 is extensive and can produce great images and great colour images out of camera. GH4, if looking at video would be the number one, but image quality I would put Fuji and Olympus ahead in their great out of camera jpegs, useful to the general consumer or enthusiast not always wanting to process Raw for personal photos. Sony should have been in this list, and although Nikon has great cameras in its DSLRs as does Canon, they really need to develop a mirrorless with a larger sensor as the 1 sensor cannot match the quality of any of the others. Sony has some impressive cameras out this year, one should have been on this list. My thoughts anyway. Yours may vary.
The Fuji XT1 or Samsung NX1 will produce better stills than the GH4/EM1 m43 sensor.
I believe the Samsung NX1 IQ has surpass the Sony A6000. Base on DPR, the NX1 has the best APSC IQ right now, you can check in the DPR image compare, look at iso 3200 raw (note NX1 use a zoom vs A6000 Zeiss prime). The Video is also better than GH4, do a search on youtube.I think "enthusiast" is define more by function rather size or even IQ. The A6000 might belong to the compact "enthusiast" and will probably be at the top (or at least until the Samsung NX400 came out :-)
horsth: Sorry guys,but you forgot to mention the excellent Panasonic's GH4 'depth-from-defocus' (DFD) AF-technology. That gives it an outstanding continuous-focus performance for stills, with 7.5fps in AFC and a buffer capacity of 35 shots Raw(+JPG). Not to mention the lightning fast AFS. This is a big plus(a like) in my opinion. So the GH4 is, apart from its well known and stressed video capabilities, also a very good action/sports shooter.
I think it lost to the 153 cross-type AF points covering the whole sensor and process by the quad-core image processor.The GH4 didn' do a very good job here, with some back focus problem.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEnbHPeLW-AThe NX1 focus quite a bit faster in this videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYFnrecUvvI
tecnoworld: This camera only lacks touch screen (for fast af point switching) to be the perfect camera for me.
I hope the rumored a9 will have all these features, plus an even better sensor with even faster af.
Sony is doing great.
I hope you won't complain about lens quality or its too expensive. BTW, I am waiting for this camera too. But MF lens only for me.
kai liu: man, the detail is crazy good at low ISO. High ISO I can see is below average for APS-C camera. ISO 800 already a lot of noise. It is similar to my MFT camera.The 50-150 f2.8 is so goo. F2.8 so sharp.
Ok, well base on my EPL5, the high iso quality definitely is not better than my NX300. I also notice my Olympus overstates the ISO like my Fuji. And I just checked on DXO and was surprise that the EM5 was even worst, iso 3200 = actual iso 1489. What the ...
Jogger: Not sure why Samsung feels that they need to be a part of this super saturated market. They must be burning a lot of RD monies, with little return on investment.
I believe Samsung share imaging research with the smartphone division (or are they both the same?), that is the reason for their staying power, plus I do see more people using Samsung cameras around my area.The NX1 is actually quite a niche as there is no existing camera that has close to its spec yet.
Menneisyys: It certainly is noisy. Right the first ISO200 elephant shot shows tons of color noise in the shadows. A decent sensor + post processor (e.g., any X-Trans APS-C Fuji cameras) would show no color noise using exactly the same processing (NR) options. (As I've explained in the Fuji forum here, even a very slight (in LR, about 2-3%) CNR gets rid of all all color noise in the shadows at base ISO with these cameras. Given that the only current APS-C Fuji camera with a Bayer pattern, the X-A1, produces definitely noisier images than its X-Trans siblings, it's easy to predict the same 28 Mpixel sensor would produce significantly cleaner images with a non-Bayer filter.)
I am sorry, I still don't see it. I guess we have a different definition of noise. Note that all the area behind the elephant is out of focus due to f2.5 aperture. I define too much NR when there is lose of details, but even at iso1600, the elephant skin texture is pretty good.Note that I often get more details from my Samsung images than from the Fuji X-E1, so there is some sacrifice with the Fuji X-Tran. Here is a 3.3EV lift from the old Samsung sensor, I think that is pretty good.http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3654445
Here is a excellent image from EM5 at iso400, great composition, but note the amount of noise at the background even at iso 400.
Not sure what noise you were talking about, I download the iso200 and use LR to pull 100% shadow and I don't see much noise from the underside of the elephant. I am not sure my X-E1 can actually do better than that. Note that Fuji X-E1 over states iso by about 2/3 stop compare to my Samsung NX300. Fuji output is also a bit soft compare to the Samsung (Fuji output feels like some NR had already applied regardless of iso)
My M43 experience differs than yours, I try to stay below iso 800 with my EPL5, whereas I am ok with the Samsung NX300. So I seriously doubt my EPL5 can match the NX1 at high iso judging from those samples.
ChuckTa: Wow, esp the one with Mrs Britton and 150mm f2.8, that is one of the best looking bokeh I have see in an AF lens. Mrs Britton should be very happy.It looks like the NX1 with 50-150 f2.8 will be excellent for portrait photography.
Ops, my bad. Regardless, that pretty girl will be please with that photo.
Wow, esp the one with Mrs Britton and 150mm f2.8, that is one of the best looking bokeh I have see in an AF lens. Mrs Britton should be very happy.It looks like the NX1 with 50-150 f2.8 will be excellent for portrait photography.
Nice. But will we also see a similar video review from the Panasonic GH4 or the Samsung NX1, both of which has 4K video.