JawaT: Surely Panasonic/Nikon/Canon will reply with a super zoom based on a larger sensor. Its an arms race after all.Makes for a good choice for those who have smartphones and are looking for a single camera that covers a wide enough zoom range. And of course they must have deep pockets.If the IQ and performance proves out, this and other super zooms pose a challenge to mirror-less and DSLR cameras.
What makes you think that? None of them have built an RX100 competitor and I'd imagine that requires less R&D (cheaper lens) and it'd be easier to market... I wouldn't pin my hopes on direct competition any time soon tbh.
I do agree this poses a threat to mirrorless and DSLR to an extent, but the price will insure it remains more of a niche even if it proves profitable for Sony. The market at large is just very uneducated as far as basic camera tech goes, there's tons of people buying DSLR that would be better off with a mirrorless model or even an RX100 but there's no one to educate them or a proper marketing consumption to entice them.
I don't even think the price on the RX10 is too high, btw given what it is and the market, and my last Sony was an HX5 P&S years ago so I've got no skin in the game...
AngryCorgi: They should be selling this for right at $1000. Not sure what the extra $300 on the price tag is all about.
I'm not sure you how you can really pin a proper price on it when there's nothing like it out there... An FZ200 is under half the price, sure, but this thing is closer to a G5/G6 + 12-35/2.8 + 35-100/2.8; the combined price of that bundle is around twice the price of the RX10 (plus the extra bulk of a second lens). The RX10 is actually remarkably close in size/weight to a G-series with either of those lenses btw.
Som people might not need that entire focal range at any given time, some people might prefer the option/variety of interchangeable lenses, but I'd wager that there's enough people out there for whom the RX10 is a perfect match and the price is just a matter of how many and how fast Sony wants to sell them really. As long as there's no one else making bridge and P&S cameras with sensors this large they can realistically charge whatever they want tbh!
Bridge and P&S market has been on a race to the bottom for far too long... Rather than innovating most manufacturers focused on lower costs, higher MP, and longer zooms (easy factors to market). It's no wonder that merely adequate smartphone cameras were able to disrupt and displace those markets. Had more manufacturers gone down roads like this earlier we'd have a healthier bridge/P&S market (and the RX10/100 would be cheaper).
First thought: Damn, it's about time someone built a bridge camera like that, and it's not at all surprising that Sony did it... But that price is whacky!
Second thought: Well, that price is actually not so whacky... True, a Panasonic FZ200 is like a third of the price, but a more apt comparison might be something like a G5/G6 plus the 24-70mm (equivalent) f/2.8 lens, and that would run you at least $1,400 for far less reach.
Add Panasonic's 70-200mm/2.8 equivalent to that and you're at double the price of the RX10 (and double the bulk with two lenses). The RX10 might be less versatile in some senses, but also much MORE versatile in others. The price is actually not too bad for what it is.
It's up to Sony to market it well enough or properly manage stock so that it's a success tho, but they found a very profitable market with the RX100 and were even confident enough to raise the MkII's price, I'd wager they know what they're doing. ;)
Frank Moeller: Canon auto focus must be really bad..........I am shocked over the bad mirror results, and if the chip auto focus is that good, why not use it on photos and not only on videos????....
Sounds like apples and oranges... Sports shooters need the quickest AF available (traditional PDAF) for reasonably focused burst shooting of objects in motion... They'll fire off a burst and pick the best one. That's not exactly the same set of needs that most consumers have, where single shot accuracy might be more relevant than speed...
olypan: It's like trying to explain to children why there are no dinosaurs around anymore. They don't want to hear that they were slow, oversized, and failed. They just like that they were big and scary.
I'd be surprised if humans manage to rule the Earth without destroying it anywhere near as long as dinosaurs did... Terrible analogy.
57even: So to get this camera to focus properly you have to hold it in front of you like a compact and focus using the rear screen? I am the only one who thinks this doesn't really move the game forward in any meaningful way?
" People made the same kind of comments when LCD screens replaced CRTs ("if I look at an angle, the colors are crap")... and the same when SSDs replaced hard drives. People moan and moan when progress is made. "
I don't know if those are the best PC tech examples you could've come up with... One's a bit off (as far as public reception) and the other could be taken the opposite way. People only whined about the cost of SSDs relative to HDDs, otherwise they're clearly superior technology in most every way, a few early teething pains but that's it. OTOH CRT vs LCD might be the more accurate analogy depending on your PoV...
CRTs replaced LCD because the latter were much cheaper and efficient to run, period. CRT are still superior to LCD in many many ways (faster response time, no native resolution to contend with, etc etc). It's taken over a decade for decent IPS LCD that avoid some common pitfalls to be as affordable (for the consumer) as the CRT were, and the vast majority of the market is stuck with TN LCDs...
I'm not against progress or change btw, I actually like EVF and my last CRT was replaced a few years ago... But new technology isn't always inherently progress. It depends on your usage case. I don't know if Canon's hybrid approach is the future, but mirrorless cameras still haven't cracked the AF tracking nut... In that sense I can see why any pro would cling to his DSLR just like a hardcore gamer might cling to a CRT.
SHood: For a camera model that has changed so little from the previous version, I am surprised dpreview is spending time on it.
Indeed, the S110 review/compact roundup isn't even a year old yet... You'd think something truly new (Panasonic LF1?) would fall in first in the queue. The S line sells very well tho so I imagine the review will get plenty of attention... The S120 MSRP just seems like such a poor value compared to the S110 @ $350 or even the LF1 @ <$450 tho.
I'm sure this fills a niche for some devices, but it's kind of a kludgey rip-off for a lot of people with recent Android smartphones...
This functionality is already baked in on many HTC/Samsung devices (I'm sure other OEM too), simply open the stock camera app, grab a Bluetooth headset, press the call button and it'll snap a pic... You can find a cheap headset for half the price of this thing if you don't already have one.
I'm sure you could accomplishe the same thing on any Android phone that doesn't have that feature by using something like Tasker, though that degree of flexibly may obviously not carry over to other OS.
Anyway, the asking price for this thing is rather high considering the dead simple hardware involved. I've got nothing against Kickstarter projects btw... I've backed Pressy, Clearshot, Minova's OTG reader, Tim Schaffer's game and some others I've probably forgotten...
El Pix: Spectacle wearers (and others): don't forget a small, watchmakers screwdriver to tighten those little screws that always seem to come loose at the worst possible times!
That's news to me, I've been traveling with one on my bag and it's never been an issue... You can hardly wield it as a weapon tho, it's barely longer than a toothpick (unscrews in segments to reveal the various tips) and as thin as a ballpoint pen ink tube.
Stealthy Ninja: I live in Hong Kong. People here love phones. iPhone 5s/c is really easy to find, just not as popular as they used to be. I mean maybe the Mainland Chinese will buy them up, but locals don't really buy Apple that much anymore.
The other day at a shop 5 people were all buying a Note 3 at the same time. Samsung is by far the most popular brand here.
Nokia and Sony might have better cameras, but those brands aren't very popular.
Is it an American thing to idolise the iPhone? I mean it gets a lot of attention on this site.
" Samsung sells more total phones, helped by the fact it has numerous models at all price ranges. The iPhone has been the most popular single model (though, now two models). There are more iPhone cameras out there than any other camera in existence. "
That kinda marketing talk could be ripped straight from an Apple ad... There's always been multiple models, just because they changed the shell of the outgoing model for the first time this year (purely to save costs, which weren't passed forward to the consumer) doesn't change anything. They've been selling the previous one or two models at reduced costs for years now, models that often have distinctly different camera specs.
Clumping all iPhones together and comparing that against any single year model from other OEMs is Apple RDF at it's classic best, trying to obfuscate the fact that they've been losing marketshare and mindshare for a while. It's good PR, fuzzy math. You either draw the line at the OS and compare IPhone numbers vs Android numbers (though that's of little value at DPR), or you'd have to look at specific year models (e.g. IPhone 5c vs SGS3 etc).
Apple's always had a lower end model or two, they were just recycling older hardware whole hog for that purpose before. The only real advantage Samsung (or any other OEM) has in that regard is that they're willing to pursue the sub-$100 on contract market, I'm sure that translates somehow to full off contract prices in places like Europe where paying full price is more common...
Apple will never go after the lowest tier market regardless of what so called analysts would say or hope for... They were similarly calling for a sub-$1K laptop from Apple back during the height of the netbook days and it never materialized. In fact, the only semi-cheap devices Apple sells are the Apple TV and the Mac mini. Even the IPod shuffle is like 2-3x the price of your average SanDisk Clip or whatever.
Apple's always been about selling premium hardware that allows them to charge top dollar and maximize profits, even before the iPhone. Any other endeavors (iTunes, apps, Apple TV) were really born out of the opportunity to sell even more premium hardware (more iPods, phones, tablets). Their whole marketing drive revolves around this, you sell premium products by putting the brand first. Ergo, instilling the kind of group think that tag lines like your post display.
I don't really have a problem with any of it tbh, it's just good marketing in the end... Intel has generally tried to work off a similar principle (albeit with less brilliant marketing, but there's only so much you can do to sell bare silicon on the shoulders of other OEMs). The only time they went after the low end (Atom) was to avoid someone else from grabbing that market and to prevent it from canibalizing their high end (then they let Atom stagnate for 5 years).Eventually ARM came along and forced Intel to lower profits on certain parts far lower than they ever have (Atom on Win 8 tablets costs OEMs a fraction of what it used to). Eventually that point is gonna come for Apple and what they do then will determine whether they keep their 30%+ market share or whether iOS devices go the way of Macs, either way they'd probably survive.
This is all pretty irrelevant to much of DPR's readers tho. Apple's software policies are their only real turn me off for me, and that's much more relevant for Connect, since mobile photography is increasingly as much about the software used as the device or logo on the back of it.
Irata: If you want the real story about the attack rather than the watered down excuse that comes out of Adobe read the details here:
It turns out the "sophisticated" attack was just Adobe's own unpatched software.
They establish that's a possibility but didn't say for certain... Either way, it can and has happen to any company, it's just kind of ironic that this would happen to Adobe because of their own software and while in the midst of the CC backslash.
The bigger revelation in that article is that the attack actually happened 2-6 WEEKS ago (there's two contradictory statements, at least the way I read it), and that Adobe was semi-clueless about the severity until the article's writer contacted them... At best it seems like they were aware but were trying to keep it hush. That's absolutely the worst possible way of handing a debacle like this.
It can happen to anyone, and at the end of the day it has little to do with cloud computing itself (the cloud might put you slightly more at risk but proper security layers like 2-step authentication can largely mitigate that), not being honest with costumers is by far a bigger issue IMO. I'd be far more trusting of a company that reacts faster, issues notifications in a matter of days etc (and plenty have done so under similar circumstances).
Honestly, the fact that this happened doesn't surprise me and wouldn't dissuade me from using CC, the fact that Adobe's handling it so poorly is far more newsworthy and DPReview should consider updating the post or following up with additional details.
Not forcing a password reset on next login is another huge gaffe on their part that only helps to empower the criminals that are already profiting from this. If Adobe doesn't compensate their costumers appropriately for their troubles (beyond the one year credit monitoring) I'd say they get an F for thhandling of the situation, which to me counts for more than the actual breach.
Apple has very strong cult following in the USA, always has (even before the IPhone), and the media does seen to love giving them attention (I imagine it sells, from an ads/clicks point of view)... But I wouldn't say it's an American thing to idolize Apple, at this point Android phone sales far eclipse Apple's in the US (like much of the world)... I wouldn't necessarily say DPR gives them that much more extra attention either, they review most noteworthy flagship phones in very much the same way.
Boky: excellent camera, no doubt an revolutionary development by Sony with impressive IQ. Two main complains, though:
1. (way) too big. It is not really pocketable. What is it then? 2. yellow overcast (minor issue, but annoying one that requires fair amount of time to correct)
The best thing is that Canon will finally have to release the good stuff... wonder what S120 will be capable of...? Would be happy if it comes close enough to RX100II. I'll always sacrifice a bit of performance for a true pocketability - hence the reason I'm still using S90 on-the-go; it fits in a shorts' or shirt's pocket with ease. This should be Sony's main design concern; at least it is the most important MUST in my book of NEEDs.
Nevertheless, RX100II deserves Gold Award - that's a simple fact. Coming to think of Awards... ... maybe dPreview reserved a Gold Award for S120? Everything's possible these days.
I hope you're kidding, the S120 is a very mildly refreshed S110... With a price hike.
Sirandar: A 79$ upgrade price is most unfortunate considering what you actually get and that Adobe never patches the bugs in PE they just release a new version for 79$..... I normally wait a few iterations and get it on special. An upgrade from 9 or 10 should be much cheaper ..... and a lot of the time the new stuff doesn't work well.
Yea Elements is a better value on sale, and it's not hard to catch it on sale a few times a year (just subscribe to Newegg/Adobe's/etc deals emails)... The Premier Elements + PSE deal pack for like $100 is hard to beat if you need a decent video editor too.
Betarover: No 64 bit for PC users. Adobe knows 64 bit support is needed by some of us because they give the reason when they say the MAC version has it:
64-bit support for Mac – Allows for more efficient use of your computers’ built in memory, maximizing performance and enabling larger image files and videos to be edited quickly.
I see no reason to upgrade from my elements 9. I do large panoramas and without 64 bit support I often run out of RAM. So I guess to get 64 bit I have to either subscribe to Photoshop or try the competition (Paintshop Pro). What a huge marketing risk by adobe because I, and others, may try and really like the 64 bit Paintshop Pro. If so, it is goodby Adobe. The Paintshop Pro folks must be celebrating this, in my opinion, marketing mistake, this embrace of MAC users, and this slap in the face for PC users. Am I wrong?
I'd like a 64-bit PC version (and so would the 16GB of RAM on my desktop) but I ain't losing any sleep over it nor am I overly concerned with trying any alternatives, Elements just works fine for my purposes... As it is, I only upgrade Elements every other version and I often wait until one of those Premier Elem + PSE deals for $100. Now if the Elements products or LR ever go to the cloud service model, you can bet I'll bail.
jose vu: I am very impressed with the panorama capability of iphone5, actually I'm surprised that it works much better (in panorama mode) than all of my sony camera (5N + some compacts) ... If only the screen were larger ....
Better how? The dynamic exposure is an improvement for sure, but outside of that Sony's Panos are pretty comparable (as far as stitching, ease of use, etc)... Plus with a NEX you can shoot them at any focal length and aperture, which is just as huge as dynamic exposure (which you could always sorta do in post).
Not trying to knock the 5s, but Sony's been doing impressive panos for a while and they popularized the whole sweep method to begin with.
Tonkotsu Ramen: Compacts are done.
Several smartphones already provide 3-5 on that list and I'm sure other items will get checked off soon... Cheap compacts are definitely done for, they should've been done for ages ago. Camera manufacturers largely sandbagged the compact market for years. First they went on a pointless MP race, then they flooded the market with countless budget models that had few distinctive features, and then came the travel zoom focal length race...
If Canon, Nikon, Sony and even Oly/Panasonic had a larger ratio of truly interesting models like the RX100, S1xx series, LF1/LX series, etc their P&S sales wouldn't be tanking... Instead they each of them has one or two models like that (usually at $400+ unless it's been out a while) and literally over a dozen cheap P&S with very few redeeming qualities.
The market stagnated basically, and that's the onlyreason that a value add feature on a completely different product managed to crush the low end camera market in a matter of 2-3 years. It would've happened to some degree regardless (just like fewer people carry watches or use alarm clocks), but the camera manufacturers didn't do themselves any favors.
If they were a bit more forward thinking they'd be selling a much bigger volume of advanced compacts with RAW, faster lenses etc... Possibly at lower price points, but sheer volume would make up for it and it's not like it'd affect their high end sales either way.
Rosember: The theatre pano is a true stunner. I have looked at and worked on it in Aperture - and the quality is breathtaking (i.e., for a small sensor device). This together with the ease of producing such a shot really impresses me. Not the ultimate quality of course, yet good enough for 95 % of what I shoot. Well done, Apple.
Honestly tho, if you're gonna take the time to line up shots manually for latter stitching/processing you might as well just use a better camera (and/or a tripod)... I'm not trying to knock what you're suggesting, a lot of people wouldn't carry another camera regardless; a lot of people can't be arsed to line up multiple shots either tho, hence why quick sweep panos caught on. (thanks to Sony I think?)
Artistico: It's better than the performance of many a compact camera. An iPhone truly eliminates the need for a low-end compact for snapshots, and I do believe that at times, you can get a shot with an iPhone that you simply couldn't with a bigger camera, either because it's always with you, or because it's unintrusive and doesn't cause a change in your subject's behaviour before you get the picture, as particularly large cameras with big lenses do have a tendency to do at times.
It might just be my next phone. I just have to wear out, lose or accidentally break my current one first...
I don't see what the big deal is... I read the article out of curiosity, even tho I couldn't care less how great the iOS pano mode is or isn't (or even how it stacks up comparatively) because iOS just doesn't suit my daily needs... But at the same time, I certainly don't find it off putting that DPR has published said content, Connect or otherwise.
It's not like my finger's gonna wither and die if I need to scroll past an extra Apple story I have no time for. Btw I'm pretty sure the dynamic exposure is somewhat innovative but I'd love to find out if another phone or P&S has a sweep mode that incorporates a similar trick...
maxnimo: Wide-angle-lens panoramas are mostly useless unless you're into goofy art. Image distortions are beyond ridiculous. Plain silly.
What's the equivalent focal length for the iPhone 5s lens, like 29mm? Most P&S will lock the lens around there or even wider, I guess that's a nice upside of shooting panos with mirrorless models or any ILC/DSLR in general.