BostonC: Shutter shock measurement: https://www.ephotozine.com/articles/panasonic-lumix-gx80-review-29143/images/highres-panasonic-lumix-gx80-shutter-unit_1459761077.jpg The shutter sound is so quiet. Amazing improvement!
Oh boy, now we're down to ad hominem attacks, yet I'M the one incapable of rational discussion. If the background noise in that clip doesn't interfere with the rest of the audio for you all I can conclude is you must not be listening on any sort of decent gear or we hear very very differently.
Anyway, why would I be threatened... by a camera? lol I've bought myself two different Panasonic bodies over the last two years, I bought and gifted a third (not because I didn't like it, was bought as a gift), and I bought an Oly late last year.
If I like the GX85 enough I'll just buy that too, not really following the logic of your take of my personal feelings here Dr Phil. Not sure why you're so bent out of shape over my comment or the way I see things differently. Like I said, learn to embrace debate and a difference of opinion, it's a good thing.
At least my lengthy paragraphs include line breaks (and actual paragraphs), something yours desperately need. ;) Early early morning in Puerto Rico btw, and again, I'm not TRYING to be abrasive at all. If it came off that way I'll blame it on lack of coffee, stand by what I said tho.
tkbslc: I can't believe they kept the !@#$ 16:9 EVF on another 4:3 aspect camera.
Uhh, no, I'd rather my EVF favor stills... They put a tilt screen on it after all. (which I prefer, but most videographers wouldn't) 16:9 EVF was essentially their cut corner.
Joel Halbert: In section 5: "Like the GX8, the GX85 includes 3-axis in-body image stabilization and a Dual IS system which adds two extra axes if you use a lens with built-in stabilization."
This seems directly to contradict the press-release (and the DPR summary just before it), which says that the In-Body system is 5-axis even before you add the O.I.S. tandem assistance:"Combining an O.I.S.(Optical Image Stabilizer, 2-axis) and a B.I.S.(Body Image Stabilizer, 5-axis)..."
It seems like this needs to be clarified, and possibly section 5's blurb should be re-written. But thanks for getting the three features out so fast.
Does IBIS actually work with video even without an OIS lens? The press release isn't entirely clear on that IMO, it says Dual IS does but that requires an OIS lens of course and they could be referring to OIS+EIS rather than OIS+IBIS... Seems other people read it differently. Full on IBIS WITH video is a big deal for anyone shooting mostly primes, and something Panasonic hasn't done before, hence why I ask.
AdamT: 16Mp .............. :(
If they`re going to use a new sensor (the 20Mp one in this case) , use it across the range like DSLR makers do instead of hanging on to old sensors . Kinda expected it in the G7 but not in this model ..
So a grown up GM5 then- nice option, probably a sweet spot but IMO needed that 20Mp sensor
The EVF and even the 1/4000 max shutter would bother me more (tho they're small corners to cut in light of everything else they got right), the jump to 20MP was nothing to write home about.
TheClueless: The 12-32 as standard? That's going to hold it back with a 16MP sensor...
...and shutter shock or not, I love the sound of the shutter on the GX8 :p
Why? It's one of the better kit lenses, a bit more distortion at 12mm is probably it's only fault apart from the range... But the size and the fact that it actually goes to 12mm also make it unique compared to other kit lenses... It's probably worth $100 easy whereas many kit lenses would barely fetch that second hand. I think it's a solid choice...
Raist3d: So some questions- did they allow exposure compensation in manual mode with auto ISO?
And is this the same old m4/3rds sensor or a new 16MP sensor?
/facepalm IF you concede Auto ISO is useful in manual, i don't see why you would possibly be against also having exposure compensation. Frankly the comment about why other companies do it is downright condescending, specially when you're missing some obvious usage cases.
Say you're using auto ISO in manual, say you disagree with the camera's metering and it's selected 6400 (no metering system is flawless)... NOW, would you rather spin a dial all the way from Auto to 3200 (Auto-200-400-800-1600-3200) or would you rather spin an exposure compensation dial one position and get what you want?
It's really that simple, and there's usage cases or shooting scenarios where you could find yourself in a situation like that over and over and over. (situations where lighting changes often etc) Hell, it doesn't even have to be exp compensation per se, tho that's the most conventional and easily understood solution IMO...
They could instead shift the position of Auto in the ISO selection sequence so that it always appears right before or after the currently selected ISO, that would work just as well but it's essentially the same thing and probably more work for their firmware developers.
No I'm not trolling, don't be threatened by a counter point or difference of opinion buddy, embrace debate. DPR's clip had a lot of background noise going on and they don't really compare it with anything, based off that sole clip a very objective person could MAYBE conclude it's indeed quiet... But to jump from that to claiming that it's quieter than X, Y, or Z; well, that'd just be speculation at best or useless hype at worst. I'm sorry if my comments are bothersome, I assure you they're not meant to be (and some of my comments further down are more recent than those further up btw).
aliasfox: I was hoping this could work as a relatively inexpensive rangefinder-style camera to upgrade from my E-PM2, but in addition to a built in EVF and DFD autofocus, I was hoping to be able to dabble in video - hence a Panasonic body. A shame there's no microphone port, though I guess I could consider off-camera audio recording.
The new shutter mechanism is interesting, and I really look forward to seeing the shutter shock testing to see if this solves the issue - not that I've experienced much of it personally, but Panny definitely could use a PR win in this area.
Even without a mic port, a no-shutter-shock body that's a bit smaller than a GX7 might still be of interest as an upgrade for my girlfriend's GF3 - I alwys thought the GM shutter was a bit limiting. It would be an even bigger plus if the GX85 used the same batteries as the older GF3 (and I believe the GX7 battery is the same size?).
Tricky price though, as used GX7s float around $350, and Sony's practically dumping the A6000.
Also, you don't really need to mitigate shutter shock at high shutter speeds because they're WELL beyond the range of shutter speeds that cause the kind of vibration and reverb interaction that induces shutter shock... Shutter shock tends to happen at lower shutter speeds. It's possible their electromag shutter does better in fringe cases tho, like shutter shock outside the usual range with really long lenses (where you're even more likely to use fast shutter speeds to freeze motion).
Any time I click it I just get a blank page with ePhotozine's URL in the top left corner... I'm on mobile, might be a combination of that and/or them protecting their content from direct outside linking. You're pretty naive if you think a class action suit over vague marketing claims would actually gain much traction tho, no offense.
Panasonic themselves cautiously told DPR the electromag shutter will largely mitigate but not eliminate shutter shock. Frankly I think it's an over engineered solution and I don't buy the sensor readout excuse (neither does DPR if you read between the lines), we've had EFCs for years on other bodies/systems with much older sensors.
My guess is they can't/won't do EFC for some unknown outside reason (patents maybe?). There's no tangible delay with the E-M5 II's EFC or most other EFC implementations on other systems. I think you're getting it mixed up with the actual delay of the EFC Oly hacked on older bodies (and E-M10 II) where the first mech curtain still fired and a delay followed it.
Overall an EFC is a very simple and very elegant solution to SS, it's quite possible Panasonic's electromag shutter might have other advantages tho... Could be it behaves better with really long lenses (where shutter cocking or even movement could induce blur even before the shutter actually closes or shocks), could be it's really quieter...
You're claiming it's quieter than everything based on one DPR clip those sounds like it was shot in the middle of a windy bay tho, it remains to be seen.
Yeah I saw it, I don't see how a PR slide allowed him to actually hear it tho, he was claiming it's quieter than X or Z in other posts... And even Panasonic was rather cautious with it's claims.
It almost seems like they can't go with an EFC for some reason (pride? patent issues?), the electromag solution is far more complex and I don't buy that sensor readout excuse.
We've had EFC on other bodies for years now with much older sensors and much slower readout speeds (old NEXs had it!), even DPR carefully wrote that bit and distanced themselves from said claim by clearly stating "Panasonic told us"...
Impulses: No wonder they're calling it the GX85 stateside (as if to subtly insinuate it isn't merely a stripped down GX8)... They've added a whole bunch of unexpected improvements, either Panasonic works faster than I would imagine or the GX8 was somewhat rushed out to market (should've had this new shutter, at least). Development of this model HAD to overlap to some extent with that of the GX8 IMO, it didn't spring out of thin air in 6 month's time.
The new shutter mechanism and improved IBIS so soon after the GX8 are a total surprise, and also things Panasonic would typically relegate to a higher end flagship body ($1,000+)... Even smaller things like USB charging and the additional bracketing modes are more than I'd expect from an $800 Panasonic kit (w/the 12-32 no less). Had this been announced a little sooner I might've stuck with Panasonic (tho my GM1 still sees heavy use, so I didn't totally jump ship).
I don't really regret getting an E-M5 II towards the end of last year (still got weather sealing and a larger EVF, amongst other things, on a cheaper body - $700 at the time, CAD/USD helped), but I think I'd be totally kicking myself had I opted for the GX8 then. Even now the GX85 tempts me, finally there's another rangefinder style M4/3 body with a tilt screen... I think I regret losing that on the OM-D more than anything.
Other M4/3 models have taken steps to correct it tho, even if Oly's EFC implementation wasn't always elegant (they kinda hacked it on every model but the E-M5 II, first curtain still fired followed by a delay). Is it a deal breaker that makes a camera useless? No. But it sure is a hassle I don't/shouldn't have to deal with and they ignored it longer than they should've.
The Pen F really does it? Huh, wasn't widely touted at release... It's about damn time a M4/3 body did tho, the dedicated exposure compensation dial on the GX8 made NO sense without this (wasted dial for anyone shooting M basically) and I thought it was odd Oly would make the same mistake...
Oly menus might be odd but their physical control points always seem very well thought out (on/off switch positioning aside). Did the F have this since launch or did they add it later? I've been out of the loop, I'd kiss their feet if they also added it on older bodies!
As far as it being a 'heady mix', whatever that means, if you've already conceded a camera should have auto ISO as an option under manual, then exp compensation I'd just a natural extension of that. If you don't agree with the metering (ISO auto selection), it's a lot quicker and simpler to compensate than to go from Auto to 3200 or whatever.
Without exposure compensation on M, M+Auto ISO is essentially the only mode where you can't control or bias all three values, which is silly... And if you don't think there should be an auto ISO option under M at all, well, go back to the dark ages is all I've gotta say.
Bhima78: Almost perfect, but i think panny went with the crappy gx7 field sequential 16:9 evf. Would it kill them to use an evf like the em10ii or hell... Even the G6 evf is better and probably pretty cheap. Still an amazing camera, but i cant believe panny is still trying to push 16:9 viewfinders on a 4:3 camera.
They look like the cut corners, not burgers, damn auto correct! But honestly, if a less than stellar EVF and a 1/4000 max shutter speed are the biggest gripes one can find on a $700-800 body, then they're doing something really right IMO. This crushes most midrange bodies, they should seriously consider selling it body only, but even if they don't the 12-32 is popular enough it won't hold back any prospective buyers that don't want it or already have it.
webrunner5: Wow, looks pretty darn impressive, and the price is not bad either.
Would have been nice at 20mp but can't have everything.
If I had bought a GX8 towards that end of last year (and I nearly did, but went with an Oly instead), I'd be totally annoyed. This camera had to be in development concurrently with the GX8, yet it's clearly superior in some ways despite their pricing.
Even their naming scheme in the US reflects as much, and it's noteworthy because it's probably the first time they've broken their naming scheme convention (maybe second?). Almost every other Lumix has followed a strict G?# scheme...
All of a sudden they go G?## while seemingly trying not to position it as the small GX8 (and it totally isn't, it's what the GX8 should've been!).
Ok, they plugged in an equally 16:9-ish field sequential-ish EVF? :p Doesn't really matter if it's not the same exact one if it's still smaller than most other EVF in it's class and still has tearing issues, just saying. Just because they improved everything else doesn't mean they didn't cut a corner somewhere, EVF and max shutter speed look like the cut burgers to me.
Super impressive for the asking price IMO, and they clearly didn't develop this in six month's time, seems to me the GX8 could've benefited from a later release date... I would've bought one if it had the GX85's shutter and IBIS implementation. The GX85 makes both the G7 & GX8 look like poor values by comparison, you can excuse the G7 up to a point because it's even older and IBIS aside they did put just about everything they could into it at the time... GX8, not so much.
A) Your link doesn't work. B) The image you're trying to quote is a Panasonic PR slide, of course it's gonna claim it's the best thing since sliced bread; especially after they neglected to implement an EFC over the last two years on several cameras that needed it (GX8 in particular).
C) You claimed in another comment that it's quieter than the E-M5 II's, mind linking where you actually heard said comparison? I'd actually love that, the quiet shutter and EFC (along with smaller size and other lesser factors) ARE basically the reason I picked the E-M5 II over the GX8.
Had the GX85 been out last year it would've likely made the decision a whole lot harder, specially with current pricing... My EM-5 II was only $700 but if I had to pay $850+ for it (body only) vs a GX85 for $800 ($700 easily after reselling the kit lens), I'm not sure what I'd do.
The E-M5 II and GX8 still have some advantages in weather sealing, EVF size, max shutter speed, etc; but there's a lot less between them and the GX85 than say, versus something like the G7/E-M10 II... Panasonic's to be commended for iterating this quickly IMO (or recognizing they had a whole in the lineup early on in the GX8 development).
Uhh, what measurement? Link doesn't work, i don't see any shutter test on ePhotozine's "review".
Hmm, they still went for a 16:9 EVF? (according to ePhotozine, not the best source but still) That and the 1/4000 max shutter still pangs of Panasonic's typical MO where they needlessly hold back on lower end models... In most other regards they've actually done far more than I'd expect tho, I thought that GX7 brought a LOT to that table for the asking price and this far outdoes that, hell I think it makes the GX8 look like a poor value proposition.
Mistajolly: Interesting comment about the lack of EFCS due to the speed of the sensor readout. I guess we'll wait for a review on how it copes with shutter shock.
As a GX7 owner, I'm not so thrilled about the missing tilting EVF! One hand give and one hand take away!
EFC wasn't really a hack, well a real EFC, Oly's EFC implementation on all bodies but the E-M5 II *was* a hack (first curtain still triggered, followed by a delay)... There weren't any downsides to a true EFC, but now we know why Panasonic never implemented one, it's a shame they didn't bring this out earlier for bodies like the GH4/GX8. It'll be very interesting to compare results vs EFC, I'd just call them different paths/solutions to the same goal.
Results with something like the 100-400 & 300/4 will probably be the most interesting but also the least relevant to most...