Charlie Jin: Between a6000 and 5100, it is not really the size and weight. I believe it is:touch sensitive screen or not;flip for self portrait or not;
EVF vs touchscreen, plus hotshoe or not too... I've never understood why none of the NEX-6 (and now the Alpha 6000) had a touchscreen when lower end models did tho, some people want a touchscreen AND an EVF.
Impulses: Nice roundup, tho as someone else commented below, I think it'd be wise to put up the earlier RX100 models up for consideration within the article. I assume the mk1 still holds up well against the smaller sensor compacts and instead of having to decide between spending $250-350 vs $700-800 you could very well opt to spend $500 on an RX100 mk1.
There's clearly a big gap in the lineup of these manufacturers, Sony has been milking the RX100 for a couple of years while it had no direct competitor and even creeping the price up, hopefully cameras like the LX100 put a cap on that and future iterations of the G7 X stay competitive. The fact that they still sell older versions at steep discounts show how much wiggle room there is.
It's pretty unusual for anyone to keep making and selling a 3 year old P&S model merely because it has no competition but that's exactly what Sony's gotten away with.
I know the G7 X is a competitor, I said as much about three lines before I said Sony had gotten away with charging whatever they wanted due to lack of competition...
And the RX100 mk1 is still fast at the wide end, it's not the best compromise I'd wish for at $500, but it is pretty much the ONLY compromise available if you wanna pay more than $300-400 for a P&S but not TWICE as much.
That was my entire point, the gaping price point hole between these models. Surely Sony could build a current RX100 variant with modern features at a lower price point, perhaps without EVF, flippy screen, etc but with the faster lens.
Until now they've had no incentive to do so tho, the RX100, whichever version, was a darling sans direct competitors.
Albert Silver: You might wish to update the information on the Sony models since the standard price (as per Amazon) for the Sony a6000 with the kit lens is $698 as of this writing, while the a5100 is $498. That is a significant price difference between the two.
Yeah the A6000 just has a very steep discount for Black Friday, but the price will surely go back up soon. They had originally discounted it only $100 but it's now a $200 discount IIRC.
Nice roundup, tho as someone else commented below, I think it'd be wise to put up the earlier RX100 models up for consideration within the article. I assume the mk1 still holds up well against the smaller sensor compacts and instead of having to decide between spending $250-350 vs $700-800 you could very well opt to spend $500 on an RX100 mk1.
BarnET: S120 It can't match the RX100's larger sensor for image quality, but it's a lot less expensive.
Yeah it's an whole 50 bucks more expensive for an sensor about 3 times larger in area.
Take the s120 off it's pathetic value.The lf1 for instance has a more useful zoom till 200mmA viewfinder and costs $130 less as the canon and 180 less as the Sony.
As of right now the LF1 is $150 less than the RX100, that'd be the first 3yr old version of it of course... It's am interesting point tho, Sony has seemingly kept the mk1 AND mk2 around at lower price points ($500, 650, and 800 for the mk3)...
That's rather unusual for Sony and the P&S world in general, just goes to show their profit margins on 1" enthusiast compacts tho. Hopefully competition drives prices down, I'd love to pick up an mk3 for $500 in a year or two. :p
Can't really justify it at $800 tho, not as a backup camera to my M4/3... I'd get the mk1, just not in a hurry to replace my LF1.
TJ Mills: I own the LF1 as my backup camera to Nikon DSLRs. I also have a Note 3 phone that takes a photo but isn't anywhere near the quality of the LF1. What I like about the LF1:- 7x zoom range to 200mm and it fits in a shirt pocket or hiking shorts pocket. - decent lens quality. Wide angle and up to 100mm is great. Beyond that is still very good. Consider that most of the other cameras don't even have optical zoom above 120mm. - exposure is accurate. Amazing how many small cameras often over expose. - records on raw. It's all I shoot unless it's just party pics in which case jpg is fine. - Takes great video. I used it to record my dad's 80th birthday and of all the people's videos with phones and other small cameras everyone wanted mine because the video was sharp and the sound was great.
What could be better:- wider aperture at long end of lens. - chromatic aberration with backlit subjects. Lots of purple fringing that can't be fixed entirely in Lightroom. - battery life is only good for several hundred photos. I find of I don't use the camera for a couple weeks the battery must be recharged. I wonder if I got a weak battery or if this is normal.
Overall the LF1 has been a good camera. If I can only take one camera and want to travel light it is my choice. With the zoom I won't miss a photo of something far away like wildlife. It works very well from 28mm to 100m ansf includes adequate macro ability. I have yet to see a camera since the LF1 came out that gets good reviews on image quality, has the zoom, sensor size and is pocketable.
Mine seems to drain the battery over the course of a few weeks as well, which is kinda odd IMO... My last P&S did the same but I knew it was because Sony's GPS implementation wakes it up every once in a while to ping satellites (even turned off) so acquisition doesn't take add long, the LF1 has no GPS tho.
My older Canon P&S could remain off for a month or two and not drain the battery. It's no big deal tho, just turn it off and remove the battery if you don't intend to use it soon, resetting the time is the only annoyance if doing that (well, and not forgetting the battery). For a P&S under $350 I'd still pick the LF1, even if it has some quirks compared to Canon's S line...
What I'd really like to see are slimmer RX100/G7 X models with the same IQ & 1" sensor but without the added bulk of a flippy screen etc, if that lowers the price point of 1" pocket compacts even better.
Dan Bracaglia: We’ve gotten a lot of feedback about the exclusion of certain models, most of which will be included in our high-end pocket camera roundup, which we will be publishing shortly. Stay tuned!
Why bother? Not everyone has the same pocket space, I might be wearing cargo pants with large pockets, or a jacket, or skinny jeans, or dress slacks, or jeans, or I'm 5'5" and 120 lbs, or 6' and 200 lbs, etc etc. It's all gonna impact how pocketable any of those are.
I can tell you that as a skinny 5'10" guy who doesn't wear tight pants, I find the RX100/G7 X pretty borderline. With dressy pants they'll definitely be noticeable thru the pocket, something like the LF1 is slimmer but a big jump dorm in IQ (as well as price).
I'll probably replace my LF1 with a 1" sensor compact eventually, but I wish either Sony or Canon would build a slimmer step down model without flippy screen, display, etc... If that cuts down the price a little that'd be perfect, u have my M4/3 for those things.
Hopefully with Canon and Panasonic (to an extent) entering the large sensor compact field, at least prices should eventually come down.
DPR could've done itself a big favor by titling this roundup something else... Way too many people read the word compact and grabbed their pitchforks or started arguing semantics. To be fair, it's sort of a mixed category, but it's basically Enthusiast non-ILC non-pocketable sub-$1K Roundup... I think the X100 is the only one that dips over a grand not quite sure why it showed up here instead of on the article they alluded to which would address the Coolpix A, GR, Sigmas, etc.
Lee Jay: Weird...my top two aren't even listed, and they're from Canon.
S120 & G7 X? Those are probably going into the pocketable camera roundup, which the RX100 will probably win again (just based on DPR's previous reviews of those models)but at least it has actual competition for once (I think the G7 X is cheaper too, plus has more reach).
Alan Williams ZA: I can't imagine anyone that would want a Sony dressed up as a Hasselblad, and pay 100x the price! Photography is about technology and art!
Hassy's head honcho clearly disagrees, direct quote from press release:
" Fuelled by our ongoing collaboration with Sony and Zeiss, the pocket-sized Stellar models are proving extremely popular. "
jkrumm: This is almost like luxury trolling now.
I bet if they'd hired Xzibit they wouldn't have had to close down their rebadge... err, design studio.
" Yo, we put wood grain ON the wood grain of your grip... Double wood baby. "
MarcvsTvllivs: Here in Germany (outside of the photographer community) Metz is mostly known for its tv sets -- and I believe that it is that main business that dragged the company under. So there is hope for the photography part of their business to live on under new ownership or the like.
You mean all this time I could've had a Mecatube??
Cameron R Hood: What a shame; they make GREAT stuff. Been a big fan since the film days.
Germany still makes some of the best high end headphones around: Beyerdynamic, Sennheiser. There's AKG too but I think they're Austrian, and owned by the Harman group now, and have possibly outsourced production of a lot of models (the very nice K712 is made over there tho). Pretty sure the German car industry is doing just fine as well... :p
joe6pack: Or you can just buy generic ones from eBay for 1/4 of the price right now. There is no lens on these things. And given they are extension tubes, the thickness does not even need to be accurate.
At least they're not that outrageously priced, there's third parties selling tubes for different systems at $250+... I'm not sure what a $250 tube does that my $30 Neewer can't, but for the price difference I'm glad to remain blissfully unaware. Fuji's markup seems comparatively tame in the context, specially if they're better built and reinforced to support larger lenses.
Marty4650: The problem for Olympus is the EM5 is almost three years old now, and is still one of the finest MILC cameras you can find. And as each day passes, they have to sell them for less and less.
So the obvious solution is to create a replacement model, with WIFI and a better EVF, with everything else the same, then ratchet the price back up to $999 again, for another three years.
From what I understand the hybrid AF isn't merely for 4/3 lenses but can also help with the C-AF accuracy of m4/3 lenses too, and other systems or even Olympus' own counterpart within the system are all working on closing the gap between MILCs and DSLR when it comes to C-AF...
The Sony A6000 already tracks focus better than any budget DSLR (while selling for $650 body only), so it'd be dumb of Olympus and Panasonic to stick their head in the sand and restrict PDAF+CDAF or DFD (in Pana's case) to their largest top end $1,200+ models.
Those features WILL trickle down, and the last big advantage to DSLR will slowly fade away, it's just a matter of when... Olympus HAS shown in the past that they're not afraid of cannibalizing sales of a higher end body by limiting what they put on a lower end one.
They put the same sensor on all bodies within the current line when Panasonic kept older sensors on some. They brought out the lower end E-M10 with nearly every majorfeature from the E-M5 but for weather sealing, etc etc.
It'd be sad for them to start segregating models more aggressively now, I think a slower refresh cycle while making every model as good as it possibly can be for the price point wins more customers in the end, people buying the E-M5 never cared if it was a year or two old.
Ehh, in all fairness, there's a few other improvements it'll surely pick up from more recent models, like focus peaking, the 0s anti shutter shock mode, etc. IF there's nothing else noteworthy beyond that and it's just an E-M10 with weather sealing it'll be somewhat disappointing...
If it gains the E-M1's hybrid PDAF/CDAF it'll have a nice spot in the lineup, if the rumors of improved video (or even 4K) pan out it could be a big hit for Oly with a whole new market. So there's a few ways this could go, we'll see... If both those things pan out I'd be all over it.
Raist3d: I don't understand why this is big news. Or why so important. Wow, and older camera model going out of production? Really?! Never heard of that before in the market.
And reporting a rumor? (!) Not that it makes a difference true or not true.
I'd tend to agree, it's slightly noteworthy in the the E-M5 has been one of the few mirrorless bodies to withstand a few years on the shelves while holding up reasonably well, but speculating on rumors does seem a bit beneath DPR either way.
PedroMZ: what was very irritating and frankly unhelpful of Olympus is that they did not install the means by which you could AF the older 4/3rd lenses despite the cost of the OM-D-5, yet 6 months later they offered it on the OM-D 1 . Few of us could afford to trade in 6 month old kit, worth half its initial value, for this facility.
Umm, it took way longer than six months for them to release the E-M1 after the E-M5... If the former is nearly three years old and the latter is about a year old it would seem they actually waited about two years in between, year and a half at least, if you bought the E-M5 way later then regretted it that's not exactly their fault mate.
dmartin92: So it's probably a waste to get 4K if you don't have a 4K television ? That's my question.
For basic home movies, maybe, even if you have a 4K TV you'll probably never notice the difference unless you have a 70"+ TV (or projector) and/or you're sitting quite close... As the above commenter notes tho, there are benefits when downsampling to 1080p etc. I wouldn't get a dedicated 4K video camera unless I had videophile aspirations, but I'm excited for 4K in photo cameras, grabbing 8MP stills from 4K video is also pretty interesting.
I wonder how many Italian designers it took to decide "let's paint this RX100 silver and literally screw a block of shaped wood to it"... Can't have been that many, so there's probably not a lot of people to fire, right? One can hope...