tex: So, um, it would be kinda cool if DPR finally did reviews of the current crop of digital medium format cameras, starting with the Pentax 645Z....the one that is the most "affordable" (actually, after just recently dropping the price down to $6,999.00, getting even closer...). It's pretty pertinent now especially, with the current crop of high mp FF cameras , with more undoubtedly coming. I hope DPR doesn't wait until it's all irrelevant...
@kpaddler-- Lens shutters offering 1/1600th have been available in MF lenses for years, hence me stating "..1/2000, *or as close as you can get to it.."
Actually there are more "competent" people in photography today per capita than yesteryear, in addition to *much* better equipment whether it be print, lighting, or camera tech.
Billboard shots can be made from practically anything. They're billboards for goodness sakes; and whether a billboard advertising "Fred's Auto Body Shop" is shot with my old 4mp D2hs or sheet film doesn't concern the public much.
While fast sync speeds aren't a universal "necessity", lenses that allow one to use flash with a 1/6000 shutter makes life a lot easier in more ways that just a few. Hasselblad upping the shutterspeed to well over 1/800 would make their camera offering(s) more appealing to many who shoot Hasselblad.
Lan: I know it's an apples to motorcycles comparison (which is like comparing apples to oranges, but more so); but I would like to see how this performs against a 5DsR and the A7R2. I understand that they're not the same target market, but I'm still curious!
@howaboutRAW... (sigh) The D810 is a killer camera, and is a MF replacement for many things. Like the Canon 5DSr, the Nikon will still blow whites and not lend itself to as much detail as the MF sensor, but we know that already... because comparisons have already been done online here and there between hasselblad and Nikon D800 series.Comparisons with the 5DSr and A7R2 aren't as readily available.
@Alex Efimoff ... Lan merely stated what s/he wanted to see. Let's not get infantile and presuppose what others think about a particular camera body. Lan might think a lot of the Nikon or nothing at all, I couldn't care less that's his/her personal business, but I agree with Lan... I'd like to see a comparison between the new MF CMOS sensors and the Canon 5DSr and Sony A7R2 as well. I've already seen several comparisons using the Nikon.
Alex Efimoff: Studio shots with controlled lighting are more relevant to this camera then the outdoors ones..
@alex efimoff... studio shots were relevant to the old CCD packing MF cameras because (generally speaking) once you raised the iso a few clicks, image quality started to look ratty very rapidly. The newer CCDs were better, but nothing compared to the CMOS sensors.
The reason why so many people relegated their MF bodies to studio use only is because in the real world, using a CCD body, and cranking the iso to 6400 and expecting a relatively clean file wasn't realistic. Today, it is.
Gesture: Just how fast can you expect leaf shutter sync speed to be?
1/1600 for LS lenses (Mamiya/Phase)
1/800 isn't fast when you're talking about flung sand, water, moving fingertips, and or hair/fabric blowing in the wind.
Frank_BR: Now that the new CMOS sensor allows liveview, and therefore makes feasible an electronic viewfinder, what is the point in keeping an optical viewfinder that demands a heavy and expensive prism, and a mirror system that vibrates the camera at each exposure? Isn't time for Hasselblad becomes a mirrorless camera?
Because I don't like using Live View except for particular circumstances, like when I'm shooting video or stills from a particularly low or high angle. I'm sure tech will do away with the mirror, just like it practically did away with the CD... just give it time.
I'm very open to ditching the mirror, but not at the expense of me *having* to use LiveView. No way.
@Tex... the Pentax 645Z is now even cheaper at $6799 or so, these days. I would like to see DPR do a comparison between the Pentax/Hasselblad/Phase variants using the Sony sensor. I'd also like to see them do a comparison between the MF bodies and the new Sony and 50mp Canon... so people can get a whiff of why people still spend money for MF bodies.
@tex.. I agree, I'd like to see more MF cameras reviewed (A MF forum too please) both in typical studio situations and real-world on location situations as well.
@kpaddler.. that can be said for reviewing a 1Dx2 or D5 as well. I think the reviewers' skills are just fine for getting the major points across.
What you don't seem to understand is that for many photographers who've shot/shoot Hasselblad, the 1/800 max shutter (1/500 older models) can be frustrating when shooting indoors and on location. Shooting nearly wide open with a client in front of a huge glass pane at a cafe'?- 1/800 doesn't always cut it; ND filters can be a drag. 1/800 is slow for stoping action (action portraits) with or without flash on location; 1/2000, or as close as you can get to it, is the sweet spot.
The Pentax 645Z has problems in the other direction with a pathetic sync speed but a very usable 1/4000 max shutter. At least modern lighting technology may save it in that regard.
maxnimo: Wi-Fi requires $600?I just find that a bit odd since you can get a Wi-Fi device for $200 with a laptop attached.
What product is like Photoshop that we can use across the board with any camera/raw file? I don't know of an equiv. product to Photoshop. What's an "alternative" to Photoshop? It sure isn't Lightroom, Gimp, CaptureOne or Phocus when considering the capability of the software across the board.
So does Canon's $600 WiFi device offers the same or *less* capability than the WiFi on other devices? ... or more?
Are Broncolor lights "too expensive"? What about the 1Dx2?You can get a Pentax 645Z at a lower price than comparable Hasselblad or Phase, but there's a reason(s) why many people still spend the money for the other products; a straight line comparison isn't going to tell the whole story.
Whether something is overpriced depends on your opinion, which is based on your requirements, wants and or perceived need.
Bakman_29: This is called glamour photography, borderlining on "cheap" fashion. Then talking about "keeping everything real" while photoshopping the hell out of it. "fashion" is a different level.
Same thing, different era. Fashion and Glamour has always been Dark-room 'shopped, or Photoshopped. Who cares either way as long as the product, photograph, print or service is getting sold... and that's the bottom line.
More power to her.
mpgxsvcd: Finally Canon is back in the game. This is a camera that offers features that almost no other camera has like 4K @ 60 FPS video. Now I just hope that this continues with their lower price models.
This is a good day for Canon.
@Don Diafragma .... except for hundreds of wedding and event clips? hundreds of youth soccer, football, and baseball clips?I wouldn't buy a pro body today without video. It's been it's weight in gold for me, keeping me from having to lug around a camera and video camera! I've put cell phone video and stills to great use as well. Both have put a huge dent in the consumer, and areas of the professional video market.
cd cooker: For a flagship camera, I expect some forward thinking specs. I expect 1DXII has USB 3.0 type C connector, capable to charge the camera battery without taking out the battery, at least 3.5" back LCD screen. Like what Tony Nothrup said in one of his videos, can we retired those 80s Casio watch top LCD panel with some kind of e-Ink panel?
A $600 wifi adapter!?#@#$
@Ingo70, It's no less a studio camera than it is a sports camera. You don't associate it with studio use, because you're overlooking the breadth of studio work, which isn't confined to static fashion shots and family portraits.
If you want to get 12 separate frames (in one second) of Tiger Woods swinging a golf club or Maria Sharapova serving the ball, in a studio setting using strobes, the common solution is a fast pro body (like the 1Dx/D4s) and several premium (daisy chained) packs (e.g. Broncolor Scoro)
If you wanted 12-16fps of a gymnast facing you a few seconds before dismounting the uneven bars; if you're using strobes or HMI lighting, what camera body would you use? Or would you be satisfied burning up studio time ($$$) taking the shot over and over again with a slower body, trying again, and again, and again, to capture the "decisive moment" that could've been gotten in 1 or 2 takes using the appropriate gear for the job?
Rice is overpriced for some people. Movies are overpriced for a lot of people. Do you think the average person thinks $10,000 for a telephoto lens is "appropriately" priced? Is $1,400 for a Macbook "overpriced"? Is $40k+ for a medium format camera "overpriced"?
What about a Photoshop Suite CD that costs over $1,200? Were they overpriced too? ... probably not to people who actually use the stuff as a part of their tools to actually do work.
If you have a rock, and you can paint a face on that rock and *easily* sell that rock for $7.95... then it isn't "overpriced". What's 'overpriced' or 'expensive' is relative.
Eugene232: is any reason to make a cameras so big and heavy?as this camera for professionals does it mean them need to carry at least a 1 extra body and a few lenses?
Mass *adds* to the stabilization of VR/IS/IBIS, and the while mirrorless is wonderful, It's just not for me... yet... but the technology has come a long way and I'll be *very* interested in seeing it makes its way into the mainstream pro bodies assuming no image quality/high iso performance, etc., loss.
Take the mirror away, keep the same size, include built-in (fast) wireless, gps, a large screen (for clients to view in the field) and a few other goodies that include leaf shutter style lenses and I'll gladly open my purse and pay a premium :)
MyReality: The megapixel amount is not a trade for anything. This is a PRO sideline sports camera . Pros shoot for the web and publication. They don.t need more than 20MP.
@ armandino, taking your time and being able to anticipate the "decisive moment" is a skill that is invaluable. However, be very cognizant that in certain situations, it has a very high failure rate; a textbook example of that is when people blink, especially if you're shooting a group of people, you can't anticipate people blinking (their eyes). So for really important shots, I highly recommend a 3-5 frame burst, sometimes more depending on the action unfolding of course.
You don't want your kid in the most important dance recital of his/her life, only to realize that you've taken beautiful, high resolution shots that display him/her mid blink or with eyes closed! You definitely don't want to do that at a wedding :)
You do make an excellent point being "take your time and think", which is excellent with the 1Dx... take your time... wait for the decisive moment... then lay down a short burst to cover the "moment", (and eyes wide open). The downside is it won't be at 42mp; yet :)
Saaaaaaad: And you believe use of these frequencies makes a WiFi transmitter worth $600? Wow.
... it is if people are willing to pay $600 for it. Business 101.
jaygeephoto: As soon as Nikon announced their D5 I know that we'd hear something from Canon any minute. My 1Ds's have held up remarkably well under regular use. I'm torn though between buying a 5DS-R for studio use and a 5D for field /PR use or just go with the sturdier 1Ds for both. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
@photomedium Ding! ding! ding! .. and folks we have a winner!
@Jaygeephoto, If you mainly shoot in the studio, I'd go for the 5Ds(r) and put the residual money into whatever makes you more money. If you shoot action portraits, etc., on location, go for the 1Dx2.
mezastel: Why don't they up the megapixel count? 20MP good enough for everyone?
@MyReality, many pros using cameras like these aren't shooting sports and very well can use more pixels. That said, I think this camera is what the 1Dx should've been, sans video capabilities that didn't exist back then.
I love the larger pro "brick" bodies over the little puny toy cameras hands down. After shooting pro Nikons for years, I opened my 5D2 box, pulled out all the new stuff, and unknowingly pulled out the camera from one of the partitions as I said "what is this?"... to my surprise, it was the actual camera!, not an accessory. I had to laugh at myself back then. I think that might be my last foray into the smaller (albeit very competent!) camera bodies.
Today, I still like the larger bodies, I like the dampened affect it has on movement, they feel better in my hands, don't have to worry about purchasing a grip (not a fan). Different strokes I suppose right?
I wish people would stop looking at the fast pro brick bodies (my favorites) as "sports" cameras. They fit the need for anyone needing a fast shooting raw camera. Period. That means if you shoot action portraits, ballet, wildlife, VIP events, weddings or pomeranians running towards you, so you can get great shots to advertise your dog business; this camera is for you too.
This is a camera that "pros" use for many different purposes, many of which *could* benefit from more pixels, but I give Canon/Nikon credit for upping the rez! We're approaching the point where a really fast pro camera, with a lot of pixels can be used with confidence for printing relatively large portraits, etc., as well!
In two more iterations, we might be there... you know... at the place where the fast Canon finally bridges the gap between their pro level "fast shooter" and "high resolution" offerings. I'm just glad we're out of the 4mp/10mp days! :)
PhotoKhan: From mock-up to teaser site, to mock-up behind a glass, to teaser photos...There's no limit to what Pentax can do.
Alex Sarbu, Yes, I shoot Canon, Nikon and Pentax (film & digital). I welcome competition; the stiffer and the more competition there is, the better as far as I'm concerned.