Danel: It's interesting that in the comparison chart of these new cameras versus the 5D MK 3, the 50MP versus the 22MP is not given a green color as an advantage indication. After all, the entire point of these two new cameras is the higher resolution. If dpreview doesn't consider that extra resolution worth an advantage indication then one has to assume that dpreview views these two new cameras as pointless.
Remember that preview doesn't pay most of our bills/mortgage, so what they do or don't think is an advantage is pure opinion vs. based on performance/income (or even performance/fun) ratio in context of your particular photography.
guinanji: Question:How many megapixels is too many? I mean, if there was a 1000 MP camera, who would want it? Who would need it? For the type of photography you do, if there was no limit, how many MP would you want/need, and why?
@Camley.. NEVER a time when 8mp was "enough" other than to those photographers who didn't need more. Landscape, static wildlife (small birds, etc.) and portrait photographers (large families, school bands, etc..) 50mp isn't even close to being "enough". 50mp on a puny sensor gives us medium format - like resolution, but not 4x5 stuff. Why people act like 50mp is huge is nuts. It's not even a 20x30in print straight from the camera (300ppi), but getting close which is great but you *still* have to uprez for a 20x30 or larger print of a large family; at least now you can start seeing nicer facial detail instead of a grainy looking mess! 16mp for 20x30 prints and highly detailed fine art = mediocre especially if you cropped in, etc.. So bad that I refused to *buy* the 12-19mp range. I skipped from 4 to 21mp (5d2).
One reason why I didn't jump on the D800 is because it was too incremental of a step for what I wanted; I banked on Canon delivering 50+ mp, would've loved more.
alpshiker: (…) Will the 50 MP be useless? They will certainly be precious when it comes to re-framing and cropping into images. Those cameras will be awesome tools for wedding photography for instance, and even some portraiture style, every aspects where a soft and very subtle haloing effect is a welcome feature. But for landscape or architectural photography, both miss the point. How many years will we have to still wait for a mature, well thought, non AA filtered 50 MP Canon camera? Nikon learned the lesson well and developed the D810 with no AA filter as a successor for the D800/E.
@dan341 You might know 1000 "wedding photographers" that don't need the resolution, but there are many wedding photographers who do. The result of shooting formals or a large family + wedding party with a 4x5 film camera isn't the same as using a 5D2 or 35mm film and that's why 4x5 & MF was often used. Today, few people don't pay for detail where you can actually see great detail in each person's face in a 20+ people portrait, so photographers don't bother.
When I would shoot a bride from on a rocky outcrop (water between us) I wished for more resolution! What about shooting the bride at 20mm, from the dock as she/groom waves goodbye to family from yacht? You want to get the beautiful boat in the frame, without the b/g looking puny.Shots from helicopter in California (drones used today)?
There are countless areas where resolution/cropping make a great advantage but if all they're doing is shooting typical weddings and bridals then no... it probably makes little sense :)
Mr Bean: I believe the higher quality mobile phone cameras are reducing the number of "consumer" camera sales so much, that the higher end cameras aren't getting the R&D budgets.
We use Metz flashes on the cameras we use (nikon or canon). While I have several Nikon SB800 (wonderful speed lights! from a decade or so ago), otherwise I only purchase lights that I can use across the board otherwise I'm losing money. I can use the big Metz on Nikon, Canon, and whatever medium format body that I rent/borrow, especially since the light is hand metered most of the time anyway (we do have a Canon module).
What gets me about these small format bodies is the ridiculous material waste in upgrading. I want to upgrade the resolution and IQ; I don't need to upgrade the darn camera body for most work! Just allow me to slide out one sensor for another and I'll be happy. Make this stuff modular already, and stop being so stingy on the buffer.
golfgti2012: no wifi = fail
@golfgti2012... Please tell exactly how wifi would benefit most photographers who are seriously looking to buy this camera; especially those looking to buy it for actual work. I'm sincerely curious. Thanks.
SnakePlissken: I am disappointed that this does not go up to ISO 1,235,800, what the hell is wrong with Canon? What were they thinking? I can only imagine that they feel that a medium-format equivalent camera is best suited to low ISO and a tripod rather than handheld... When was the last time you saw someone with a Hasselblad or Leaf running around the streets doing handheld grabs in low light? Sorry, I forgot, Canon are the devil incarnate and will be out of business next week.
@SnakePlissken.... with CCD sensors in the past, people didn't shoot MF cameras in low light hand held because you practically couldn't. Today you can shoot an early morning beach bridal session on MF CMOS sensor (newer Pentax and Hasselblad cameras) using only the sunrise as fill handheld at 800, 1600, or even 3200 iso. Just shooting at 400-800 iso on a CCD looks like a dog and that's what most MF shooters are using still as of this date.
What will be interesting is how much more detail can be realized using a 55 or 85 Zeiss Otus lens compared to MF. The Otus on Nikon seems to be a hard hitting contender (winner) to MF in the detail department and I'm eager to see reviews on how well they perform on this new Canon.
Donnie G: Seems to me that these 2 new Canons have the potential to further disrupt the medium format market and possibly in a major way. It just seems like a good bet that up and coming architectural and fashion photographers would find a lot of uses for these cameras and their L-lenses that were not possible or even affordable to do with traditional medium format gear. Don't be surprised if Canon winds up taking some serious marketshare away from the medium format makers without having to invest in designing a MF sized body or MF lenses and lens mount. :)
1. The D800 was and still is a viable option for many professionals who were renting MF (medium format) solutions. Some of you forget that the MF backs out there still being used today range from 16mp to 80mp, with various sensor sizes in 645 digital backs. Even the Canon 1Ds3 replaced a lot of MF backs for both fashion and catalog work.... because most people using MF aren't shooting multi-million dollar campaigns of any kind, nor has that ever been the bulk of the demographic shooting MF.
2. The 5DS will convert many others still clinging to their MF backs. **If the practical difference between the 5DS and a CCD MF back is the same or better than a D810 and a CCD MF back (which in general practice is not a whole lot); then you can bet that there will be converts.
3. The manufacturers of MF bodies-n-backs need to ruck up on dependability, focus speed, weather sealing, susceptibility to shock (being bumped), etc.. and take a hint from Pentax.
OortCloud: This is ridiculous. Why would anyone but billboard photogs need this resolution?I'm not about to start shooting my weddings with a tripod or print wall murals for my brides. Where's the 5D Mark IV?
I think it makes an excellent 2nd shooter for event photography (I'd prefer a 1Dx over it though); but if I could only choose 1 camera, I'd go with the higher resolution body or most of my work.
Just because it offers 50mp, doesn't mean you have to use it. you could shoot 20mp weddings, and 50mp for some of the formal bridal work, and formal family photos. I think it could work as a wedding camera just fine... especially for ceremonies in well lit, tons of ambient light sanctuaries as opposed to old churches with a few windows here and there and hideous lighting- the hideous locations usually aren't paying you much anyway. ;)
I'm really wanting to see that lens performance (Canon 11-24mm f/4).
stratplaya: Looks like after 8 years Canon was finally able to make a copy of the Nikon 14-24mm f/2.8. Congrats, Canon!
11mm is notably wider than 15mm that's for sure. For me, if the new Canon lens is as good as the Nikon, then I'd seriously consider it. The bottom line for me is not whether I can tell a difference peeking at pixels, but whether or not those paying me can tell, or even care about any slight differences in performance.
As far as the Tamron goes, I'd have to see it with my eyes- sometimes what's important to another photographer might not be as important to me or my photography. We'll see though; I'm very interested to see how the new Canon lens fairs when put through its paces! :)
ecube: The New pricing for the Canon EOS-1D C announced here in DPR a few days ago now make sense. They want to clear their inventory to make room for their new line-up.
I have a feeling REAL Pro shooting Canon will buy the EOS-1D C instead of the new 50 meg models.
I don't care one way or the other, Canon is not my preferred camera, Nikon is. But I hope Nikon concentrate of refining their D800/810 and D750 with the addition of built-in GPS rather than get into the megapixel escalation.
Which of the two brand is better is not my concern, both are excellent camera in the hands of an accomplish photographer. Just a matter of preference.
Why on earth would a portrait photographer pay for a 1Dc to get poorer results in comparison to the cheaper (but far better suited to the job) solution? That's worse than a dedicated portrait shooter buying a 1Dx over a 5D3.
You get the right tool for the job. That's the bottom line. The sooner people get it through their heads that 50mp isn't "huge" the better. People are just too used to using sad, little, puny sensors to the point where they generally think 50, 60, or even 80mp is huge- it isn't... it's just the fact that digital is finally catching up to what is normal in the larger formats which for decades has been the go to formats for many facets (portrait, fine art, landscape, etc..) of photography.
People just aren't familiar with that side of "normal".
OortCloud, stop with the whole "most people don't need..." argument. Most people aren't in the market for a camera, lighting solutions and lenses costing over $3,000 either, but for many who are, and who are sick of renting/borrowing larger format cameras in their professional work, 50mp is a great thing. You act as if 50mp is huge. It's only about 29" x 19in 'ish... at 300dpi which *finally* gives a portrait or fine art photographer a decent jump off point before cropping or upsizing the file. Pull back the ink on your large prints and you can eek out larger sizes depending on substrate and how much you can stand dropping below 300... 270? 240? That's not a huge print after you've cropped and processed the file, and throttled back your ink to levels that save ink but yield just south of the highest quality possible.
But that's real life stuff as opposed to internet fodder.
If I wanted to print a billboard, I'd just whip out my old 4mp camera and call it a day. What on earth does 50mp have to do with printing billboards as opposed to wanting as close as you can get to a 20x30 straight out of the camera to give you great image quality and cropping latitude when printing 20x30 or larger family portraits, etc.?
But surely as a wedding shooter you know why photographers through the decades have used large and medium format for the family shots back when utmost quality was on the mind.
You *can* shoot the bride, groom, their respective families, friends, and everyone in the wedding party in the big formal shot using a 20+mp 5D3, but the resulting print will not look the same as using an 80mp back. 50mp Canon= cost-compromise.
You *can* shoot the entire high school band using a D810. But the resulting print still has small faces compared to larger resolution solutions that offer slightly more detail and cropping room.
50mp isn't outrageous people.
If you have to ask...The same reason why many photographers (in their actual work): Require 1/500 *or faster* sync speed; ISO over 3200; strobes that provide a fast flash of around 1/10,000 to stop water spray in studio work; power packs of 3200ws daisy chained together for "fast action" location work at dusk, 50mp or more for reproduction work, macro photography, medical macro (capillaries, nerves, anatomy of the eye, muscle striations, skin cell design (for students) etc..
Take a portrait of 12 people, 2 cats and a dog; 3 rows deep, using a Nikon D3. Print that portrait at 20x30'ish, then 30x40'ish. Now do the same with a 5D3 and D810. Differences? Cropping latitude of at least 5.-1.5 inch all around? What about with 50mp or 80mp (digital back)?
The bottom line is that 80mp isn't huge (let alone 50) and until you start seeing digital solutions that dwarf the 4x5 format, the MP's haven't even begun to offer HUGE resolution solutions. We're just getting started basically.
If the new 11-24mm is as good as the Nikon 14-24, I might have to open my purse ;) ... though I would rather a faster aperture.
En Trance: Step carefully all of you Canon Lens Fanboys. I know about caution on Sony Alpha. 50MP at an a99 price? Can Canon live at that level?
Canon could probably "live" if they sold them for $2500 each. I'm very interested/curious over this new camera (I've been waiting for this type of dslr for over a decade); but I'm even more interested in Canon getting on the ball and adding faster tech to their professional line of scanners or making their large format printers even better.
nerd2: Two facts:
1. FF camera is NOT expensive. You can get D610 at less than $1300 now. OMD E-M1 costs $1200 and X-T1 costs $1300, so they cost the same.
2. FF camera is NOT that heavier. RX1 weighs only 498gr with excellent 35mm f2.0 lens. X-100T weighs 440gr, while having 1.5 stop slower lens (in equivalence)
10 years ago, FF DSLR used to cost $8000 while comparable APS DSLR cost $3000 range ($5000 premium). Now the price differential is almost negligible (less than $500), and we really don't have any reason to keep expensive small formats alive. Half-format camera at least had the advantage of being able to take twice as much shots compared to regular cameras....
@Klarno (meant 645 my mistake)
Yes, one *can* technically use a 12mm lens to achieve the same AOV, however the result IMO isn't on par with the 28mm lens on the larger format; the smaller sensor often having a "puny" look in comparison to the larger sensor... throw in the DOF difference and in practice the "look" is noticeably different... even though an academic equivalency in AOV has been met.
In general super wides on FF aren't "working" solutions; often slow & sub par. I'm cognizant of MF conversions from having used all three formats (crop, FF, MF) ; Using a large Phase back vs. cheaper Hasselblad or Pentax 645Z sensor, can also be night and day due to sensor size (MF crop vs. FF so to speak) irrespective of lens used.
6x7 would be my digital choice to include a really wide relatively "flat" field of view lens if they ever fashion such.
Best in photography to you.
1. A 28mm lens on a 6x6 medium format camera, gives the same angle of view as what on a FF Nikon/Canon?
2. You shoot wide open the equiv. lens, and I shoot wide open, will the resulting photographs (and backgrounds) look the same?
DotCom Editor: What's most informative here is the vast amount of mirror bounce and shutter-curtain bounce. If you ever needed a demonstration of why mirror lock-up is essential when shooting on a tripod and you want to achieve the best-possible results, this is your proof.
.. and it's a really small mirror. I wish they would've shown the mirror of a medium format camera (e.g. Hasselblad 500 series) bouncing.
Please be cognizant that one huge reason to shoot full frame, or various medium and large formats is because of the angle of view can make a HUGE difference in what you can fit into a single frame.
1. Go into your bathroom, have someone sit in the bathtub and while you're facing the tub, from a tripod, take a photo with an DX Nikon (1.5x) or a 1.6x crop Canon; getting as much into the frame as possible.
2. Take the same photograph from the same spot using a FF camera; getting as much into the frame as possible.
3. Using a medium format 6x7 or 6x9 camera (film) take a photograph from the same place; getting as much into the frame as possible.
The difference between the formats alone can be huge! The smaller the format, the harder to get everything in the frame. Even if you have a 1,500 square foot bathroom, you get the point :)
The benefit goes FAR beyond just resolution, high iso, and image quality attributes.
Paul Gordon: The whole article is virtually irrelevant to serious photographers who migrated to a DSLR from FF and medium format film cameras. For us migrating to digital via an APS-C DSLR was a downgrade forced on us because at the time manufactures could not economically produce a FF sensor. So now moving back to affordable FF DSLR's is merely a welcome restorative step.
Digital APS-C came about because of a technical necessity not due to some preferred development path. The APS specification as a film size was struggling to make any serious market impact even with the larger APS-H format.
I have never owned anything other than FF lenses as I always considered APS-C a temporary necessity. My lens selection was totally compatible with all the photography I wished to do with an APS-C body but the path back to FF was maintained. That path is not a myth.
The myth for many is the belief that migrating from APS-C to FF is always an upgrade but that is a completely different topic.
A lot of truth in your post. I consider digital APS-C as an "upgrade" from film for the most part. Even today if *I* could only chose one, and had a choice between my old D2hs and my film cameras, I'd choose digital hands down.
I too have only owned FF lenses; I recommend not buying DX lenses as they don't work across the board (film, all digital, and even other brands w/adapters.)
Whether something is an upgrade (as you point out) depends on the individual. I'd rather use a 50mp, FF digital camera over MF (medium format) film any day of the week for *general* needs, however there's nothing digital on the market that can replicate a 6x7 range finder... which for me, offers a preferred angle of view, so there are many situations where film is the only way to get everything you want captured easily into a single frame.
You nailed it. For many the belief is that APS-C to FF is an "upgrade" by default, when what "is" or "isn't" (upgrade) depends on the photographer.