ArcaSwiss: I pay $1500 per year to maintain one seat of Pro/Engineer CAD software. I get about three new releases per year. But if I stop paying maintenance it still works. I'm not a renter. It makes me a lot if money so it's a good value.
At least, then, people would have a choice: stay subscribed and continue with the updates, or cancel and stay at the level where you currently are. Adobe has made it an "all or nothing" proposition: you have no choice, either it is our way - pay us continuously, forever - or no way at all.
And then they wonder why "World + Dog" (to use the British saying) is telling them to "Stuff off!"
razadaz: All those who are running to embrace the new subscription model, just because it suits then now, should take note of the thousands of loyal customers Adobe has let down and deserted.
Heck, I think it's more important that they take note of the fact that they will be paying whatever Adobe asks for the rest of their LIVES. 90 days after you stop paying you no longer have access to your own work - Adobe completely pulls the plug on ALL functionality of Adobe products, you get NOTHING!
Biowizard: I haven't paid any money to Kodak for several years. They sent a bailiff round to take all my 35mm transparencies away so I can never see them again. And now that Kodak has gone bust, I can't even get my slides back by paying.
Twilight Zone? Or simply the New Reality. Thanks, Adobe, NOT.
What you don't understand is that in some Adobe products - InDesign for example - you don't HAVE a choice of file format to save your projects to. In InDesign you have INDD files - period.
So if you create a project using ID CC, then must save in INDD format, then stop your subscription, you have...nothing. Nada. ZILCH. You can't open your project and NOTHING on the planet can, either. You are 100% a complete hostage to Adobe's subscription policy.
Lea5: You don't need a poll to see what people concerns. It is very easy.People want to have a CHOICE! They want choose the way they want to go. Left or right. This is how we grew up in a western world, a world with choices. They don't want a corporate communism. They are concerned with the way the corporations lead the system with their unholy friends at wall street anyway. They promised us a brave new world with "all the choices you have." " Be all you can be." It's all a big lie! You have no choice! They give you just a liitle more space until the leash ends. People are fed up that's why the response was so fierce.It's easy for Adobe. Run both systems, boxed AND CC and nobody will say a thing anymore.
Or, conversely, simply offer some type of alternative on Creative Cloud's licensing:
a) When your subscription ends your software goes into "demo" mode, you can read but not write files. At the least you can still access your own work.
b) After a set pay-in on the subscription model, if you terminate the subscription your software continues to function. You will no longer get CC benefits such as added functionality (ending the subscription shuts functions down) and will no longer get updates.
I think the main complaints fall into a story:
- pay in- have nothing to show for it at the end of the term- can't even access my own files if/when I terminate- all of the aforementioned means that the money you are charging for this idea is far too high, considering that upon termination I have NOTHING, not even the ability to view my own work!
HappyGuy: Personally: I will stay with the version of PS I already own... no more updates (only hope LR does not go in this direction!).
Professionally: my employer will NOT pay a monthly fee for my (and my 6 coworkers) software, so I guess that means no more updates for the full CS6 bundle.
This is very sad.
Most print houses want high-res PDF flight-ready output anyway, nowadays. Sure, you can send your full INDD project but it is larger, does not included embedded fonts (must be included in the preflight run and then fully packaged), takes time to either FTP up or mail a disk as it is too large to email, and then must have manhours spent to check and convert. A PDF is simply more convenient for them now and is more commonly preferred.
TomC601: Third, "I'm a casual/hobbyist/amateur user and make little or no money from Photoshop. I can't afford the $240/year to keep updated but would still like the latest software." Adobe could charge these users a minimal monthly fee ($5/month seems affordable) and then offer upgrades on a per upgrade price. Then this user can opt for the upgrades they choose without it costing them what they can't afford. (BTW, I would fit into this category.) Thus Adobe would be getting some ongoing revenue in this model and stands to keep good faith with their customer base.
Let me know what you think.
So now they have created a condition where a portion of that pre-training circumstance will be lost, lost due to the lack of affordability. Home and SoHo users will drop out, schools will switch training programs as their accountants realize that they can no longer afford Adobe's new per-seat / month licensing scheme.
So what happens? The constantly growing customer base that they have enjoyed for YEARS will now dry up, that's what. If schools do not train for Photoshop or InDesign, what will the companies who hire do? Over time, switch to what the market is being trained for. If home and SoHo users no longer feel they are being supported, they will form new alliances of user groups to support alternative products.
All this, and more, benefits everyone BUT Adobe. Corel is already jumping on the idea, with blog posts pretty much saying 'We're not grabbing your money (yet)! Come to us!'
The market is already starting to move.
Yes, indeed, that is probably Adobe's (read: probably more the CEO's personally created) scheme.
The *problem* is the ignorant short-sightedness of it all.
Adobe is a market leader BECAUSE a vast majority of people use their products in a vast majority of purposes. What benefit to them is this? A large user and knowledge base - Adobe products are trained for in schools, home and SoHo users are fluent in using the products, etc.
This not only creates a knowledge base for current users - "How can I...?", just ask, someone will know - it creates a reoccurring customer base as companies who hire employees get a pre-trained workforce. In many industries, Adobe product knowledge is fully expected as a condition of employment.
TLD: For a single product user, the price is definitely too high, but people using the Creative Suite, and who keep up with updates, are going to save money. If you own any CS6 product, it will cost you $240 to try the full CC package for a whole year. If you wait till mid July to sign up, that gives you the maximum time to try any future updates, and enjoy all the added value of the Creative Cloud.
If at the end of that time you don't like, and think $600 a year too much to stay with it, then you still have all your perpetual licenced products install to go back to. That just doesn't seem so bad to me. How much do you people pay for Cell phone planes, Broadband, mobile data for your iPads, cable TV etc.? How long would it take you to earn $600? A day?
I would be more worried about future access to any projects I create as a professional than short-term benefits, if I were truly "professional".
Which I am.
The idea that one must continue to pay in order to access one's own work...borders on insulting. I don't need updates, but I need access.
Prognathous: Corel's response:
"For the foreseeable future, we will continue to sell the box version"
Adobe's competition are probably toasting themselves for their newly-found fortunes - their worst competitor has just self-imploded.
Who could ask for anything more?!
40daystogo: After reading many posts on this DPR and photo.net, it strikes me that most people haven't grasped the long term implications. Here are some common dis-illusions:
-- People who think they can use CS6 for 10 years, since it meets their needs. Well, not if you buy the next model DSLR that's not supported by CS6.
-- Each time Apple upgrades their OS every year, it breaks many previous versions of software, so if OSX 10.9 breaks CS6, then everyone is stuffed, or can't get new Macs.
-- It also hasn't struck most people that they're going to be paying this monthly fee till they die, that is, if they want to access their Photoshop files, created with the newest software, even after retirement.
"Each time Apple upgrades their OS every year, it breaks many previous versions of software, so if OSX 10.9 breaks CS6, then everyone is stuffer, or can't get new Macs."
Hmm. That seems to be a conscious choice by Apple, for CS2 for Windows, developed in 2004, works perfectly well (with the exception of the Acrobat print distiller) on Windows 7 x64.
So planned obsolescence seems to be a built-in Apple "feature".
I clicked on choice #1, "Having to repeatedly pay to retain access", but in actuality I am concerned about all of the first four topics. Conveniently, they are even listed in the priority order of my concern - #1 down to #4 topics are #1down to #4 of my priority of concerns.
Please add "All of the above" to the poll and restart; I'm sure the statistics will skew to "All" pretty quickly.
Alphatak: The protests focus on Photoshop, but do not forget that Lightroom is in the same situation as PS one year ago. You can choose between the cloud and a perpetual license, they said. We no longer have the choice. It will be the same for Lightroom. Whatever they say, whatever they promise, it is now impossible to trust them. Better to abandon all Adobe softwares, and also the DNG which is their trojan format. Every photo processed in Lightroom will have to be reprocessed in the next raw software because the development metadata will not be compatible. So it's better not to wait too long.
The protests focus on Photoshop but it is even WORSE for InDesign users.
Photoshop works with industry-standard image formats - JPEG, GIF, TIFF, etc - and "can" save in its proprietary format, PSD. Several other software products offer PSD 'compatibility' - not perfect, but at least they can open them.
InDesign saves exclusively to its proprietary format, INDD. No other software product can open and work with the files - you are locked in. If you lose InDesign, you lose all access to your saved projects - hundreds to thousands of man-hours locked away, completely unreadable.
Photoshop is the tip of the iceberg. For us combination Photoshop / InDesign users, it is life or death, really. I even hear that InDesign CC does not create the backwards-compatible files that were promised, making any CC created INDD files completely and utterly locked in to the CC subscription system.
100% completely and utterly NOT ACCEPTABLE. I hope the production typesetting industry says "No!"
Halstatt: Not even a flinch. They are so cock-sure that their educational and institutional sales will pull them through, that the rest of us are lumped into a "hobbyist photographic community".
Are you talking about 'real' photographers, Winston, vs. the organizations you cut deals with?
And depending upon institutional and educational sales will be their FAILURE.
Many institutions and schools have workstations without internet access, for security concerns. Adobe CC needs internet access for subscription confirmation and added features - is Adobe really saying that these customers must now wire up and grant internet rights to these workstations just to get Adobe's software running?
That will be a failure of mega proportions.
pribbens: Do I understand this correctly?say I buy in, over the next two years I'll pay $240, and if I stop 6 months later it breaks since I stop paying? To me this is monopoly abuse, and yet (as if to confirm it) is there really anything remotely better?
Actually, the cheapest you can get for a two year plan is $360 - the $10/month rate is a first year introductory rate ONLY.
People need to correct their understanding of the prices involved.
Steven Brenner: Just wait, rental of cameras is next. Your camera will work for 6 months and then you will have to reauthorize its use for a fee. Either we rebel or we get %X*&#.
How are you figuring that "math", for there is NO $10/month long-term subscription plan.
The $10/month is an introductory price for the first year ONLY., to select individuals only. The price, after the first year, jumps back up to the standard $19.99/month rate.
one year: $120two years: $360three years: $600four years: $840
How do those (corrected) figures now look to you?
And you have NOTHING, in terms of additional personal property, to show for it. If you fail to pay Adobe, AT ANY TIME, 99 days later you lose access to any of your own personal property (your files, your intellectual property) that was saved in any of Adobe's propriety formats.
AND you still must go out and purchase a replacement for the now non-functional Adobe software, to boot! A double whammy!
Mark1302: I have CS 5.5 and was going to upgrade. I spoke with someone at Adobe yesterday about what my options were. One of my options was to upgrade to the cloud for $30/mo. the 1st year. Then I could "rent" PS, Premiere and after affects for $30/mo. after that. I was going to do this and then I thought what happens after 5 yrs and I want to stop. All my files are useless!!!!!!!I will continue with my CS5.5 and update my Lightroom until they scew us with that also.Maybe it's time to learn GIMP.
Forget what Adobe is trying to sell you and what they claim is no longer available. CS6 upgrade disks are available for boxed purchase on the internet...but they are not cheap. Question yourself if the upgrade is truly worth the cost.
Bernard D: It doesn't make sense to me. One of the reason they're going with this business model is to prevent piracy, but since you can run the program without being connected the internet, up to 30 days for monthly subscriptions, and 99 days for yearly subscriptions, piracy will remain, just my 2 cents !?
Nah, piracy has nothing to do with it. No company on the planet has ever, ever been able to prevent piracy. All one has to do is trace the program flow to the function call that refers to the subscription checker and then replace the call. It is physically impossible to prevent piracy once any form of computer code is in the wild - utterly impossible.
Adobe's choice? All about money. The CEO even admitted it as such, in his own words regarding corporate cash flow, in a prior statement
jkoch2: Let me play the devil's (Adobe's) advocate: traditional sales of software are doomed by falling sales of PC, the higher cost and diminished returns of further upgrades, and by the fact that "winners" in the new media world will all use cloud content or tools that are rented like web or phone connections. Profits from consumer software, or traditional schemes, are doomed. People who don't care about these facts are not going to buy much, or buy often enough, to be worth pandering to. The rest will, sooner or later, opt to rent PS the way they rent movies or pay utilities.
The only thing that defies logic is how anyone can use "cloud" to edit video, unless they rent oceans of cloud memory, upload oceans of clips, have (expensive!) 100mbps connection speeds (anywhere they go!), and have 100% confidence in it all.
Falling sales of PC's is due to a complex series of factors. One factor, one factor that both the industry and its pundits wish to deny by sticking their heads in the sand, is that a large majority of the buying public does NOT want Windows 8. Notice how PC sales really tanked once Win8 was our only buying choice?
The other reason PC sales have been slowing down is that, for many people, there simply isn't a tremendous reason to go and replace their current hardware. Most PC's in current use work well enough for the owners that replacing them is economically silly, especially in a slow economic climate.
Adobe is stupid to cut out old user's upgrade path, making it an all-or-nothing proposition to commit to Cloud if you want to upgrade. They completely discounted the every-other-release upgrader, forcing people to commit to pay for constant upgrades, thinking that their 500k current subscribers is just the beginning.
AngryCorgi: None of this matters to me. I'm still running CS2 and am perfectly happy.
CS2, with the exception of Acrobat''s print driver, is compatible with Windows 7. Runs well, actually.
Adam Filipowicz: Adobe invented PDF, and put money, resources to make it a success and made it easy for other to use it.. even allow others to make competing producting for really cheap.. dont you think they deserve to charge for the work they do?. making a standard is not an easy thing to do.
And what part of us paying for Adobe's Acrobat program, ever since they created it, does not qualify as getting reimbursed for their efforts??