Langusta: I'm having a hard time finding worse camera in this price range.
How many cameras in this price range do you (and all the people giving you a thumbs up) actually own?
I'd bet the answer is zero.
The Smoking Camera: I can only imagine how much better the IQ would be from those other mirrorless cameras if it got the shot I was able to with the V3.
I think you deliberately missed the point.
People buy the V3 or anything else for their own reasons.
Whether the fps advantage is "at best a fringe benefit" or not, is surely up to whoever it is that is buying the camera.
But it seems that there are a determined number of people that keep popping up and have this constant need to diss the V3.
I don't have this camera, so I can't really comment on it. So, why do you feel the need to jump up and down and say things like "..doesn't outweigh the cost/IQ ration in any respect?
I am assuming, of course, that you yourself don't actually own a V3. Is this correct?
And please, don't go on about such and such's tests zoomed in 900% which shows this, that and the other.
I have prints (30x45cm) from a D70, D300, D800 and a V1, and I assure you that no one can tell the differences in terms of sharpness and color accuracy.
For the majority of things you are right. But there are things where 20 or even 60 fps will make a difference.
The other day I was shooting bees flying in and out of their hives with my V1. To get a "perfect" shot with a certain number of bees in flight AND being in focus is very much dependent on the number of fps.
It has very little to do with technique. It's simply a (high) numbers game.
Horshack: This is like apologizing to a child for being out of broccoli at dinner time, out of soap at bath time, and out of toothpaste at night time.
You just don't get it. Not everybody wants to shoot RAW 100% of the time.
My wife has a job where she needs to shoot discretely. She is always borrowing my V1. She doesn't know or care what ecosystem I have. I tried to get her to use the NEX but she refuses it. She can't figure out why the NEX kit lens is so big compared to the 1 kit lens.
The V3 would be absolutely perfect for her. She could do away with the EVF and have an even smaller camera than the V1, whereas I would prefer to shoot with the EVF.
About my photos, well, breathtaking to you they are not. However, many people would disagree with you. Case in point with the 1 system.
I really think you should look at the link I gave where I shot with the V1 and the 18.5mm lens. You would really be surprised just how good the IQ is (there is an option to zoom in on the photos). The bokeh could of course be better, but it's plenty good for what it is that I was trying to do.
Well, I also have a Sony NEX which has a larger sensor. But I no longer use it because it just doesn't do things I hoped it would do. For example, the shutter sound it makes is like a bomb whereas the V1 has a completely silent electronic shutter, plus a mechanical shutter. And the NEX IQ can be awful because the WB is consistently wrong. And please don't go on about shooting RAW. If I want to shoot RAW, I have the D800 for that.
On top of this I HAVE made comparisons between the V1 and the NEX. In good to normal light whatever differences there are is not worth discussing.
Regardless of what you think Nikon is trying to do, there is no point denying that the V3 is selling. It is selling and selling more than you and a whole bunch of people like you thought it would. And this is what you can't accept.
Actually, people do care how I shoot. I CHALLENGE you to look at my site http://www.thelightinbohinj.com/ and then come back and tell me that nobody cares how and what I shoot.
There's much more to a photograph than DOF. For example, the story it tells. But more importantly, the story that you are trying to tell.
Please, have a look at the link below where all the shots (except 1) were shot with a V1 and the 18.5mm f/1.8 (50mm FOV). But view it whilst reading the story.http://issuu.com/studor13/docs/hol_cambodia
Would I have gotten "better" DR and shallower DOF with my D800? Sure! But I was on vacation with my family and the last thing I wanted was to carry a heavy system all day.
Sad for Nikon? Certainly is not, because they can and are selling the V3 at the price that they want.
I just don't understand why people are annoyed with the 1 system. If you don't want one, don't get one. But a lot of people are voting with their wallets!
Lastly, from what I've seen and read there is not much difference between m43 and Nikon CX in terms of IQ. In any case where is there an 800mm VR f/5.6 equiv. for $1000?
BTW, I shoot my 85 f1.8 @f4 (CX 32mm f1.2 = f3.2)
What makes you think that the sensor is bad?
I have 30x45cm prints from a D300, D800 and a V1. Nobody can tell which is which based on colors and sharpness.
Lenses are not expensive. Show us a 800mm f5.6 VR/IS lens or a 85mm f/1.2 (FOV equiv) for under $1000.
And then compare the size differences.
Reilly Diefenbach: Looks like a lot more folks think this is a good camera than some of the experts here.
People on forums don't actually buy cameras with their own money but give advice on what others should buy.
I'd bet that even if the V3 came out at say $500 cheaper than where it is, "experts" here would still not buy one.
I started out with the V1 and one lens. I now have 5 CX lenses. When I've had enough of the V1 I will either get a used V3 or maybe even a V4 by that stage.
The CX lenses are really amazing for their size but people who have never even used the 1 system just don't know.
It's good that finally people are voting with their wallets and not with ignorant thumbs ups.
Retzius: The fact that this is still $300 cheaper than the Nikon 1 V3 really shows how insanely priced the V3 is with its 1 inch sensor...
Did you make even a quick comparison of the two cameras?
V3 vs DP2EVF (2.4m) vs NONE!1/16000 vs 1/2000Real grip vs some gripBuit-in flash vs noneTilting screen vs fixed60 fps vs 7fpswifi vs no wifiTouch screen vs just screen
And I'm sure there are more.
Whether these differences are worth $300 is for the buyers to decide.
And please, don't go on about the APS-C sized sensor. I have both the V1 and NEX-5 and I can tell you that IQ is not an issue.
Something is insane here but it ain't the price differences between the two cameras.
Retzius: Dumb dumb camera. Good technology but poorly marketed. Nikon had no idea who they are making these cameras for.
If you are an enthusiast you will want to use the grip and viewfinder. But, if you use the grip you have to remove it every time you want to change the battery and the tripod socket is now off-center. In addition, you can't use a Arca Swiss style plate.
The external EVF actually made the camera more expensive and if you use it now you can't use a flash... Dumb dumb dumb
OTOH, its too expensive for casual shooter or soccer moms when they can get a competent APS-C Dslr for half the price.
Nikon has no idea who they want to sell these cameras to. They are hoping to create a market that won't intrude on their slr sales but it is priced far too high to do that. The fact that they drop in price my 50% a year later doesn't help things much...
dumb dumb dumb
"I suspect it will mainly be owners of current Nikon lenses who want the extra reach that will be buying this (or more likely buying a massively reduced sale version)."
This is where we differ greatly.
The OP and all the other 1 system haters can't accept that people will buy a V3 at their current price.
Here is an example of someone who did buy and he also meets my demographics:http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-Digital-Camera-10-30mm-PD-Zoom/product-reviews/B00IYP9MQ6/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending
He already has a V1 and a V2, yet he just bought the V3.
Whether we like it or not, some people have more money than sense. For these people buying a V3 is like going out for a coffee.
There are no compelling reasons to buy most things over somethings that are cheaper.
I used to be a PC guy but now I buy only Apple products. I can do everything (and more) on a PC but I just like my Mac which is more expensive.
Everyone keeps mentioning the small sensor on the 1 cameras but it is not an issue. You really need to use a 1 camera to find out for yourself.
That leaves only price. I mentioned in my first post that there are now a lot of people in Asia that have more wealth than people in the West realize. This is where the market is. These people when shown five cameras of the same size are not thinking which is cheaper. They will often only notice which brand they recognize and associate with. And ironically, some people will actually buy something simply because it is more expensive.
Why do you think the V3 costs more than the D5300? It just ain't about image quality and value for money.
People are already buying the V3.
Nemsi: No offence, but what's the whole point of the 1 system, with small sensors and buying extra lenses for the camera, who are those for? Really sorry, I guess it's just me.. :/
- The new 70-300 CX has VR so you can hand hold it at 1/50 sec- f5.6 is f5.6; f16 is dof equivalance - go and walk around with an FX camera and a 800mm around your neck all day
Let me explain my reasoning then.
I bought myself a V1 but for the wife I got her the Sony NEX because she wanted a small camera. But when she saw the size of the kit lens and heard how loud it was she stopped using it. Now she uses the V1 exclusively.
She has a job that requires her to take photos in discretion and since the V1 has a totally silent shutter, she just loves it.
The V3 as I said would be perfect for both of us. It's not because my wife can't use the LCD with the EVF on but she wants the smallest camera system possible that has decent quality. And for me I would find the IQ adequate even when compared to my D800.
As for the flash, having to take off the EVF to use the internal flash is no more dumb than having to put on an external flash, which is how it is with the V1. And since quite a number of the CX lenses have VR, the number of times that I would actually need to use the flash is insignificant. For my wife of course, it would be a non-issue.
I didn't miss anything.
People like him think that they have it all covered.
For example, I like to shoot with an EVF but my wife doesn't. So, this camera would suit a family like us. And there are a lot of families like us where one likes to play with all the options and the other one just wants good quality snaps. Two cameras for the price of one!
What he says and what you think is not the way Nikon thinks. What is dumb to him is obviously not so dumb to Nikon, right?
I suppose you think that people who buy the Otus are lens enthusiasts? People buy the Otus because they can afford them.
"Well done" and "I'll try to explain"? You really must think that you are some sort of intellectual bantam weight.
"Nikon had no idea who they are making these cameras for."
Only a dumb person would say such a stupid thing.
Do some maths and work out just how many people there are in China, India, Japan, Thailand,... that can afford this and much more. Go out of the small hole you live in and go for a walk down any main drag in say Bangkok and count the number of buildings that are worth in the millions.
I once met a guy in the States who thought that the US$ was the only currency in the world.
Do you know how much the ZEISS Otus costs? I'm sure you are the type who thinks that ZEISS is run by a bunch of dumb idiots.
maxnimo: For me there's nothing better than a "good" product that's been further refined and improved. Version 2.5 of anything is usually 10x better than version 1.0. A dramatic new camera design may be exciting, but it always comes with issues and problems. This new Nikon looks to me like a machine that's been polished to near perfection and it surprises me to see so many negative comments.
@just a Photographer
Maybe you can tell us how you can get to v2.5 without first having v1.0?
There is no way a company can get every single thing right in a v1.0.
Apple, for example, comes out with a new iPhone just about every year. Nikon has taken over two years to release the D810 after the D800.
Are you suggesting that Nikon should have only now released the D800?
As one of your "guinea pigs" I have taken maybe 30,000 shots with a D800.
If I'd listened to people like you these shots would have been made on my D300.
I for one will definitely not be forgetting how thankful I am to Nikon for giving me a D800 which cost 40% less than say the D2X but 400% better in image quality.
You are way off reality. In any case YOU should be happy if you don't already have a D800 since you can get something pretty amazing, don't you think?
fmian: So will they be replacing mirrors for D800 users? Or free upgrades to the D810? Sounds like D800 was a premature release if early reviewers noted how difficult it was to get sharp results but Nikon didn't pick up on it during their own testing. And now the D810 fixes that and pads it with features that could have been in a firmware update anyway...Oh look over here at this shiny new camera while we sweep the old one under the rug...
Do you own a D800?
I'd bet London to a brick that you don't.
It's bad enough that you are talking more and more non-sense but since you actually don't own a D800 and probably have never even used one then I think it is best that you give it a rest.
What he says or what she says carries very little weight with me. If YOU have something worth showing to back up your claims then fine. I'll have a look.
Otherwise you are wasting your time trying to convince those of us who use the camera day in day out.
In fact, I really should have just stopped reading you when you claimed that Nikon could replace the D800's sensor with a software update.
Getting a non-sharp picture and not getting an optimal picture is not the same thing.
You tried to make out in your opening post that people were not getting sharp pictures with the D800 and that only now has the issue been resolved.
Getting every single D800 shot perfect is a bit like getting both the left and right eyes in acceptable focus when shooting with an f1.2 lens when the head is slightly turned. Yes, it can be difficult but that is the nature of the beast. The D810 can not and will not fix this non-issue.
There is a very big difference between having some issues with a camera and what you wrote.
What you wrote was a complete load of non-sense.
Shall I go over them one by one?1. Having difficulty getting sharp pictures.Who had any difficulties? No one anywhere had this problem.
2. Nikon didn't pick up on it during their own testing.This is just plain ridiculous.
3. And now the D810 fixes that.Fixed what? That's images weren't sharp? Please...
4. ...pads it with features that could have been done in a firmware update.Have you even bothered to look at the differences between the D800 and the D810?For example, the D810 has a new sensor. Wanna tell us how exactly Nikon can update the D800's sensor with a firmware?
Like I said, what you wrote is just non-sense. You should be ashamed of yourself.
This would have to be the biggest non-sense I have ever read about the D800. Congratulations!
I've been using - as have countless thousands of others - for more than two years and have had no issues whatsoever.