Some of these points are well taken, but you've neglected another scenario: Many long term Nikon owners (and likewise Canon owners, to a lesser extent) own many fine AF lens from film days. In my case, my collection of several fine Nikkor lenses was an additional inducement to move to full frame. Owning both a D610 and Df, I have experienced first hand the quality of my lenses when paired with these full frame cameras.
With all of this said, I also own a Nikon D3200 18-55 VRII lens and a Nikon J1 with a 10 -30 lens. When size and weight are an issue, I've used these for convenience.
intruder61: @HowaboutRAW............"My biggest concern, though, was the image quality. While I wouldn't expect the X to match my DSLRs for autofocus, I do expect decent images and found the camera's DNG files to be inadequate. I often like to shoot subjects when back-lit or in high contrast lighting situations and have come to expect Raw files with enough latitude to work with, even in difficult lighting."..who cares how good the lens is.
Of course the lens matters. But Leica isn't' the only top quality lens. Nikkor, Canon, Zeiss also make excellent lenses. I would suspect that if the identical photo was taken using the above array of lenses---most viewers would be hard pressed to identify the lens of manufacturer.
With that said, if people want to spend their money on any brand of body or lens--regardless of price--that's their business. But in choosing one top notch system versus another--it's mostly about the hardware.
If readers want to justify their purchases by thinking their camera and lens take the worlds best pictures---well, so what. It's their money.
topstuff: What is about a Leica article that brings out the usual comments focused on the price?
And why doesn't this happen with other consumer goods - such as cars?
An Audi shares much of its components with a VW, yet people proudly spend the extra money for, essentially, the same product..
How many people complaining about Leica are at the same time making the opposite judgment about the car they drive?
It is not ironic that someone with an Audi A3 may complain about the price of a Leica? Surely, wouldn't they be smarter if they just bought a Golf?
Leica - Audi - whats the difference?
I think what has happened to Leica is similar to what has happened to Rolex. In both cases, their products were at one time at the technological peak of their respective industries.. Today, both are enormously expensive status symbols, but no longer at the forefront.
In specific regard to the Leica M, you rarely, if at all see them being used by professionals--yet for the cost of one, you can easily buy a top of the line Nikon or Canon pro model. Only well heeled amateurs can afford an M---and I wonder how many of them would dare risk their expensive cameras to the outside weather elements as well as risk of theft?
I suspect most of them end up in the hands of wealthy collectors--and indoors.
Marty4650: Here's why schemes like this fail.
Even though a few wealthy people will always be willing to pay astronomical sums for exclusivity, Hassleblad just doesn't have that sort of brand cache. It isn't Rolex. It isn't Hermes. It isn't Ferarri. It isn't even Leica in that regard.
So in order to sell things for ridiculous high prices, a product must be something that is:
1. very fashionable and exclusive. And this was butt ugly.2. very useful for high end pros who need it. Not a Sony NEX7.3. beautiful, that can be used for 50 years. Like a piano.4. rare and collectible. Not possible when something is in production.
And these Hassleblad rebrands are none of the above.
There is just now way to market a nice midrange camera for more than a Nikon D4s and sell very many copies. It won't take long before you run out of very stupid customers. Then you are stuck!
Well, in fact Hasselblad does have that sort of cache. But the cameras were, as everyone knows, simply rebadged Sonys----and so incredibly ugly that they were an embarrassment.
The Leica badged version probably will run about $1,400.
ironcam: How can Leica make a dslr with such a minimalist design, while Japanese dslr's have more buttons than an 80's stereo tower?
While an aesthetically pleasing design, it isn't likely that it has the appropriate features needed by today's ---especially those who earn a living taking photos. It seems that Leica M series cameras are purchased as collector pieces---assuming someone has over $7,000 to spend on a camera.
I certainly understand and appreciate the Leica mystique (owning two 1950's Leica III series cameras--which predates the "M" series and I own a Leica C-Lux 2 digital compact). But I wonder more and more just where the Leica digital M series fits in today's photographic world.
They are rarely used by professional photographers for photojournalism assignments (Nikon and Canon certainly monopolize that field) and at a price tag in excess of $7,000--they are beyond the reach of most mortals in terms of amateur use.
It is true that they are an aesthetically pleasing design but this seems aimed more at the well heeled collector.
Removing the viewfinder is a step backwards from the V2.
The Nikon "1" system has received a lot of (I think) unwarranted criticism. As an owner of a V2, I've been very happy with the photos and the fit and finish are quite nice. But I use this as a supplement to my D7100 as I feel the latter's overall capability is pretty tough to beat.
With this said, I think there are some valid criticisms of the Nikon "1" system---like other mirrorless cameras--they are pretty pricey. Secondly, in regards to the V3---I'm still scratching my head as to why the built in optical view finder was dropped in favor of the optional clip on unit. As far as I'm concerned, that was a step backwards.
One other point: I think in the case of both Nikon and Cannon--there is concern that more elaborate mirrorless cameras might cannibalize the DSLR market. I don't think either company is ready ---YET--to jettison mirror boxes in their flagship lines. Yet I suspect that in Nikon's case, the "1" series is a testing ground for future tech developments.
Beautiful and fascinating pictures. The viewer is almost transported back in time.
Onyxtiger: The Df is definitely NOT ugly. I started shooting Nikon back in 1967 with a Nikon F....I still have it, along with a Nikkormat EL, an F2S and a myriad of classic Nikon lenses. The Df is perfect for me. I can use all my lenses, plus the newer digital lenses that I have also purchased for my first digital Nikon.
Who the heck needs video on a DSLR?
The Df reminds me of a large Nikon FM.
Kibernetik: Leica cameras cannot be compared with other cameras basing on its specs. It is as incorrect as evaluating the art masterpiece price basing on the cost of canvas and oils used. Maybe some cameras can be compared using specifications, but not Leica. There is art and there are ordinary drawings. How their price can be compared using just size of the drawing?
It is more a question of "Can I afford this piece of art or not?" than "Does it worth these specifications or not?"
It's so expensive that users probably won't take it outside the house for fear of damage or theft. The question becomes: what's the point?
beavertown: If Dpreview decides to review the V3, I hope they will also seriously consider the ridiculous price tag.
Because you should get what you pay for.
I think the high price tag issue is true of many brands of mirrorless cameras.
Harry S: Just how good is the AF in these things? Comparable to a DSLR if shooting something like motorsport?
That's a big drawback with mirrorless cameras of all brands--they are not as capable as DSLRs for action shooting--especially motorsports.
As a long time Nikon owner with many Legacy F mount auto focus lenses, I use and love my current D7100. With that said, I also own a Nikon V2 which I have great regard for. I'm not so sure that the V3 is a step forward in the sense of only allowing for an optional, add on electronic viewfinder---why such a device is no longer an integral part of the camera, I don't know that I understand the rationale. And I am indeed old school, but I've never been particularly fond of the tilting LCD screens.
Some have expressed the opinion that Nikon will never develop these mirrorless cameras to a great extent for fear that they will pose a threat to the DSLR market. I've always thought of the Nikon 1 series as a sort of testing ground for ideas that will eventually be found in their DSLR series. Whether or not mirror boxes are eventually replaced by either an advanced pellical mirror or by a pure electronic view find, only time will tell. But I don't think the Nikon 1 is a waste of effort.
Marty4650: You have to commend Nikon for jumping on the retro bandwagon when the fad is almost over.
To do it right, they probably should have made the hot shoe an optional accessory. And the LCD on the back is totally unnecessary. There should be a frame on the back to hold a piece of cardboard from the memory card package to remind you what size memory card you are using.
It takes courage and vision to be the last one to spot a fad, then try to exploit it. Kudos to Nikon.
I'm not so sure the "fad' is almost over. I think many people over the years have grown impatient with the "black plastic Blobs" that all of the companies were churning out. I think the yearning for a more "traditional" look has been a growing backlash.
BobYIL: 90% of this criticism would not happen if it had a price tag of the D610...
Nikon set a model with the pricing of D800 and D600; now with the Df it is only opportunism..
I suspect in time you will see price drops---as happens with most cameras.
As far as appealing to the "retro look"--isn't that the point of all such cameras recently produced by Olympus, Fuji, etc. For years, people have griped about the "black plastic blobs" there were bering produced by all camera manufacturers. So aesthetics has been added as a sales factor.
For those immediately condemning the camera--I wonder how many would jump at the chance to buy the epitome of all retro cameras--the Leica (if money were no object).
Let's wait and see reports on its performance.
Timmbits: "Although we don't have access to sales figures, we understand that the 1 System is doing pretty well for Nikon." ROTFL LMAO
SERIOUSLY??? It was on this very website that reports of dwindling camera sales pointed at Nikon1 line as having a huge drop in sales.
I appreciate the preview of this new underwater camera. And it would be quite nice, and hold it's own, without the nonsense.
Mirrorless systems are popular in Asia--not so much in the U.S. and Europe. I think that is one reason for the seeming contradiction.
Truman Prevatt: Nikon was looking for a home run. The last home run came with the SLR which changed the camera industry and is still dominate - independent of digital sensor or film. Home runs are difficult to come by. What people want is not important - it is what people buy is. I expect the Nikon 1 type cameras will be around in the mix for a long time. However, just as the flexibility of the SLR system limited the rangefinder cameras of the 50's and 60's to a niche - I expect the flexibility of the DSLR system will limit the mirrorless to a niche. That doesn't mean that the companies won't pursue their development or limit their utility.
Right on the button here.