photoguy622: The addition of RAW support is great, but why not also add a shutter priority mode?
Meanwhile I just bought a refurbished Nikon 1 J4 with the waterproof housing for $275.00. Hopefully it won't be too bulky.
If the Nikon's too big I'll stick with my Canon D20 and wait until someone adds raw and a full suite of manual controls to a waterproof camera.
Why is this so hard!
One more thought: If you use the "focus adjustment" feature (press OK while the focus is locked, to see focusing arrows), you might be able to shift the focus into the macro range. When I tried it from the wifi remote app, the focus appeared to stay the same from shot to shot.
"Microscope mode"- I see. That's a shame. In TG-1, you had an option of putting the lens in macro mode in nearly any mode, without affecting the rest of the settings. I assumed that one of the microscope modes is similar, though I haven't played with it much yet.
This size sensor doesn't have much leeway before diffraction becomes apparent. Even f:2.0 it's already something like f:11 in 35mm terms. Whole one more stop might be marginally useful at the wide end of the zoom, it will make a mess of things at the far end.
Also, the type of manual control you're asking for, would be awkward and clunky without dedicated buttons or wheels. "A" mode is already difficult to use quickly.
snapa: It still surprises me that any camera company is still using the 1/2.3" sensors in cameras, aren't they for cell phones? BTW, the RAW images look just a BAD as the JPEG's.
In many "tough" scenarios, you are not free to choose a shooting position. You can't stop mid-current on a river, or in mid-air in front of a cliff, or on a steep part of a slope. You stop where you can.
Also, you're often shooting a moving target (another biker / skier / surfer / rider). This makes optical zoom desirable, and often essential.
Gerard Hoffnung: I like the "freeze proof to -10C". Around my part of the world that's an average winter day and both my G16 and Ti3 function perfectly well at that temperature.
"Don't be so dramatic."Hey, this is an Internet forum!
But yeah, most of those issues can be fixed by dropping a hand warmer into the camera bag.
A "tough" camera's main advantage is that it's tiny and doesn't mind if you land on it. It's mainly for situations when photography is not a primary goal. You go climbing/swimming/riding and take a TG-4 to snap some pics in the process.
With a larger sensor, the lens will stick out in front, which will make it very difficult to waterproof.
Most cellphones don't have optical zoom. Those that do, have a collapsible lens that sticks out quite a ways when turned on.
JordanAT: How good is the "fisheye" lens, and how does it look.
I use a Panasonic TS-4 (I think) for technical photos of buildings - investigations where the camera is likely to get dropped/banged/hit and I've destroyed two regular pannys, a canon, and a sony over the years. I don't usually need a really wide angle, but there are placed which are just very small/tight where having something in the 15-20mm range for a wide "location" shot before taking detailed pictures of damage would be nice to have. At $130, that w/a adapter seems pretty dear.
Oh - any remote shutter release options other than a phone?
Oh, one more thing: While the phone-based WiFi remote works, it's not ideal. Olympus app only allows you to change the settings that you can see on the screen. I haven't found a way to change the settings that require going through the menu.
Also, WiFi eats the camera battery very quickly.
"People have been using non-weather sealed cameras in much colder weather for decades without problem."Except for batteries going dead, the LCD screens' refresh rates slowing down, the AF and zoom motors struggling, the aperture blades getting stuck, the frost and fog forming on the lenses...
"The problem with shutter priority is probably that the TG-4 has only three apertures."To make matters even more confusing, the third "aperture" setting is really "enable ND filter". It only affects exposure, not DOF. Macro shooters beware!
Photato: Consumer junk as always with tiny pixels.Canon S120 with 12MP despite using an older sensor shows the importance of large pixels. Even after considering the sensor size difference, the S120 still comes ahead.Olympus and Sony, thanks for the carbon emissions and the landfill material.I can't wait for next year model with even smaller pixels !
Simon97: ... "Why can't they use a 1/1.7" sensor for better IQ at this price point?"
It's the market situation. Very little money in compact cameras right now, so very little R&D is happening. Across the board, all "tough" cameras released in the last couple of years are very minor updates. The only progress is in "superzoom" and "enthusiast" ranges. All other compacts (not tough, superzoom, or enthusiast) are pretty much gone.
tecnoworld: I'll wait for a 1" sensored waterproof camera with a decently fast lens (2-2.8). Hope it doesn't take too long to come.
"BorisK1, the sensor has a crop factor of 2.7, so the 10mm prime is 27mm equivalent and the zoom is about 30mm–74mm equivalent."Ah. My mistake, sorry about that. Used a wrong crop factor from the table. Need to get more coffee :)
"G16 and Ti3 function perfectly well at that temperature"
-- Do you keep the cameras in the pocket, or do you allow them to actually cool down to the air temperature? I found that when a camera - any camera - is cold enough, the batteries die almost immediately.
"I was not able to setup a shutter speed that would prevent me from getting lots of blurred pictures."- In "A" mode, just open up the aperture and start raising ISO. You should be able to go all the way to 1/2000.
I did that when shooting my son in a baseball batting cage, and got quite a few shots that included a ball in flight beside him. I found I even could switch between a fairly sharp, somewhat blurred, or a very smudged ball.
Mammolo02: The battery can be physically inserted flipped right-left and in this case (of course) the camera does not turn on. I did not know that and went back home convinced that my spare battery had something wrong. I wonder whether other cameras have this "feature".
After a while the camera turns off by itself. And it erases whatever settings you have programmed. When you turn it on again, you are back to a "standard" set-up ("auto everything").
I have the "ring-flash" add-on. It is a passive piece of plastic, i.e. it captures the light coming from the camera flash and distributes it on the ring around the lens. The problem is that the plastic "stop" in front of the rectangular flash is not tightly against the flash, so light leaks are rather common and result in streaks on the image (that is typically a close-up). Get some black electrical tape and cover completely the plastic cover of the flash to stop the light leaks.
"After a while the camera turns off by itself. And it erases whatever settings you have programmed. When you turn it on again, you are back to a "standard" set-up ("auto everything")."
I take it, this happens in "Microscope" mode? The "A" and "P" modes don't do this - they remember the settings. The C1/C2 modes go back to the saved settings each time you power-cycle the camera.
Cane: It's a shame this segment insists on such a small sensor. Such great potential, such bad image quality. Wash, rinse, repeat.
You either get the choice of a crap IQ p&s, a leaky Nikon, or a crazy priced bulky diving housing for a real camera. There's a giant hole in this market. Hope someone will wake up and fill it.
"It's a shame this segment insists on such a small sensor. Such great potential, such bad image quality"
A much larger sensor, like 1", will mean either no optical zoom, or a lens sticking out in front. Look at Sony RX100 when it's powered on.
Though I had been hoping for an 1/1.7" or so.
nunatak: in theory, this has to be one of the best weatherproof digital compacts to date. while sensor size may be a concern to some, the other thing not addressed is it's fore~bearer's frequent tendency to fog up.
olympus and other manufacturers have the tech to build argon/nitrogen filled lens units which _are_ hermetically sealed to eliminate fogging. perhaps at this price point it's not feasible to "fog proof" — but until it is the issue remains a barrier to obtaining a true weatherproof camera. =:-/
To do that, they would need to have at least two separately sealed compartments - one for the lens assembly (filled with nitrogen), one for the battery / SD card, possibly one more for the USB/video ports.
I don't see this happening at this price point.
Divers had to deal with fogging from the start of U/W photography. Just leave the camera with an open door facing an A/C outlet for an hour before you go diving, and you'll get no fogging.
mpgxsvcd: The addition of RAW is a good thing. It still doesn’t make this a great camera though.
I just wish they would make a water proof camera with a 1” sensor and a smaller zoom range. I just need 20mm-50mm for underwater work. If it has an F2.0-F2.8 lens that would be perfect for my needs.
A 1" sensor with an F2.0 zoom, the lens would be sticking out 2-3 inches in front. Look at the Sony RX100 when powered on.
Without optical zoom, you lose a lot of target audience.
aliasfox: With a 1/1.7" sensor (and lens to match), it would pretty much kill what remains of the Powershot S line of cameras (S110, S120) - similar price, size, and specs, but you can truly throw it in a backpack and carry it around outdoors and not worry too much about how you treat it.
Someone mentioned that people looking in this category are cheap - definitely true. I'd rather damage a $300 device and shrug it off than damage a $1000 device and actually be sad. Besides, for people who really need a good active/underwater camera, there are underwater housings.
I view it like I view my watches - I have a cheap quartz watch and a nicer watch, both are water resistant to my needs, but I'd much rather bring the cheaper watch when I go in the water - just less to risk.
Yeah, I had been hoping for 1/1.7 as well, but it was not really in the cards due to the market situation. There's just not much R&D money in the budget for the compacts. If you look, all "tough" cameras released in recent 2-3 years are very minor updates. The non-tough subcompacts are pretty much gone, only the "tough", "enthusiast", and "superzoom" cameras see any kind of activity at all.
The cellphones are largely to blame for this, unfortunately.
"any remote shutter release options other than a phone"-- The self timer :)
For a wider angle you might want to look into the TG-860 that covers 21mm and costs less. It's got a flip-out LCD, which makes it more vulnerable. Still, it's not as vulnerable as a TG-1 with an attachment lens sticking out in front.
Lightcapture: Slow news day eh?
Yeah, don't you hate it when they publish camera reviews? DPR, please get back to covering cellphones and drones!