Biowizard: Love my first-gen TG-1 ... would buy the TG-4 in an instant if the latter got damaged or stolen.
My TG-1 dropped screen-first on an unlucky pebble, that hit a rubbed-out spot on the glass. The camera still works, but the crack lets in water.Now, my new TG-4 wears both the silicone skin and the screen protector.I must say, the TG-4 is the TG-1, polished to near perfection. Most minor annoyances are fixed (especially the over eager ND filter), some of the new features are quite useful, and some of the "magic" fluff is tucked away.
aliasfox: With a 1/1.7" sensor (and lens to match), it would pretty much kill what remains of the Powershot S line of cameras (S110, S120) - similar price, size, and specs, but you can truly throw it in a backpack and carry it around outdoors and not worry too much about how you treat it.
Someone mentioned that people looking in this category are cheap - definitely true. I'd rather damage a $300 device and shrug it off than damage a $1000 device and actually be sad. Besides, for people who really need a good active/underwater camera, there are underwater housings.
I view it like I view my watches - I have a cheap quartz watch and a nicer watch, both are water resistant to my needs, but I'd much rather bring the cheaper watch when I go in the water - just less to risk.
"A 1/1.7" sensor in a durable waterproof housing will also nearly double the price"I doubt it. Small sensors aren't all that expensive. Olympus Air retails for $300 on Amazon (body only), and it has a 4/3 sensor.
snapa: It still surprises me that any camera company is still using the 1/2.3" sensors in cameras, aren't they for cell phones? BTW, the RAW images look just a BAD as the JPEG's.
Ribbit74 - It's the matter of usability. Using a GoPro to deliberately take still pictures would be very cumbersome. There are no photographic controls of any kind. No feedback (did you get focus lock?). No flash. No way to tell if you're over or underexposing, and no way to correct if you are. It would be an exercise in frustration.
"I am actually waiting for a waterproof Ricoh GR"It's quite puzzling why nobody makes a waterproof housing for it. The camera is almost completely controlled by push buttons and sliders, there's just one wheel, no touchscreen. Seems tailor-made for a housing, yet nobody makes it.: I guess Sea & Sea used to make one. Probably was more expensive than the camera itself. I was thinking of somebody like Meikon, for $200-300.
tecnoworld: I'll wait for a 1" sensored waterproof camera with a decently fast lens (2-2.8). Hope it doesn't take too long to come.
"The OP didn't say zoom."If zoom is not a requirement, a Nikon AW 1 with the 10mm f:2.8 would fit the bill to the "T".
photoguy622: The addition of RAW support is great, but why not also add a shutter priority mode?
Meanwhile I just bought a refurbished Nikon 1 J4 with the waterproof housing for $275.00. Hopefully it won't be too bulky.
If the Nikon's too big I'll stick with my Canon D20 and wait until someone adds raw and a full suite of manual controls to a waterproof camera.
Why is this so hard!
" I never would have known that the limited apertures negated shutter priority"They don't *quite* negate it. From what I've read, some camera models allow you to control the shutter, but they disable (or mark in a different color) the exposure values that will cause you to over/under expose, because the camera can't change the aperture to match.
Lightcapture: Slow news day eh?
Nah, I just like taking pics.
JordanAT: How good is the "fisheye" lens, and how does it look.
I use a Panasonic TS-4 (I think) for technical photos of buildings - investigations where the camera is likely to get dropped/banged/hit and I've destroyed two regular pannys, a canon, and a sony over the years. I don't usually need a really wide angle, but there are placed which are just very small/tight where having something in the 15-20mm range for a wide "location" shot before taking detailed pictures of damage would be nice to have. At $130, that w/a adapter seems pretty dear.
Oh - any remote shutter release options other than a phone?
For reaching places with a selfie-stick, a phone app might work well, since you can see on the screen what the camera sees.
Would be tricky to do while standing on the ladder though. Perhaps attach phone to stick and use voice control? (I don't have a clue if the app allows for voice control though). Plus, the voice control will alert your neighbors to what you're doing (I kid, I kid :-) )
One more thought: If you use the "focus adjustment" feature (press OK while the focus is locked, to see focusing arrows), you might be able to shift the focus into the macro range. When I tried it from the wifi remote app, the focus appeared to stay the same from shot to shot.
"Microscope mode"- I see. That's a shame. In TG-1, you had an option of putting the lens in macro mode in nearly any mode, without affecting the rest of the settings. I assumed that one of the microscope modes is similar, though I haven't played with it much yet.
This size sensor doesn't have much leeway before diffraction becomes apparent. Even f:2.0 it's already something like f:11 in 35mm terms. Whole one more stop might be marginally useful at the wide end of the zoom, it will make a mess of things at the far end.
Also, the type of manual control you're asking for, would be awkward and clunky without dedicated buttons or wheels. "A" mode is already difficult to use quickly.
In many "tough" scenarios, you are not free to choose a shooting position. You can't stop mid-current on a river, or in mid-air in front of a cliff, or on a steep part of a slope. You stop where you can.
Also, you're often shooting a moving target (another biker / skier / surfer / rider). This makes optical zoom desirable, and often essential.
Gerard Hoffnung: I like the "freeze proof to -10C". Around my part of the world that's an average winter day and both my G16 and Ti3 function perfectly well at that temperature.
"Don't be so dramatic."Hey, this is an Internet forum!
But yeah, most of those issues can be fixed by dropping a hand warmer into the camera bag.
A "tough" camera's main advantage is that it's tiny and doesn't mind if you land on it. It's mainly for situations when photography is not a primary goal. You go climbing/swimming/riding and take a TG-4 to snap some pics in the process.
With a larger sensor, the lens will stick out in front, which will make it very difficult to waterproof.
Most cellphones don't have optical zoom. Those that do, have a collapsible lens that sticks out quite a ways when turned on.
Oh, one more thing: While the phone-based WiFi remote works, it's not ideal. Olympus app only allows you to change the settings that you can see on the screen. I haven't found a way to change the settings that require going through the menu.
Also, WiFi eats the camera battery very quickly.
"People have been using non-weather sealed cameras in much colder weather for decades without problem."Except for batteries going dead, the LCD screens' refresh rates slowing down, the AF and zoom motors struggling, the aperture blades getting stuck, the frost and fog forming on the lenses...
"The problem with shutter priority is probably that the TG-4 has only three apertures."To make matters even more confusing, the third "aperture" setting is really "enable ND filter". It only affects exposure, not DOF. Macro shooters beware!
Photato: Consumer junk as always with tiny pixels.Canon S120 with 12MP despite using an older sensor shows the importance of large pixels. Even after considering the sensor size difference, the S120 still comes ahead.Olympus and Sony, thanks for the carbon emissions and the landfill material.I can't wait for next year model with even smaller pixels !
Simon97: ... "Why can't they use a 1/1.7" sensor for better IQ at this price point?"
It's the market situation. Very little money in compact cameras right now, so very little R&D is happening. Across the board, all "tough" cameras released in the last couple of years are very minor updates. The only progress is in "superzoom" and "enthusiast" ranges. All other compacts (not tough, superzoom, or enthusiast) are pretty much gone.
"BorisK1, the sensor has a crop factor of 2.7, so the 10mm prime is 27mm equivalent and the zoom is about 30mm–74mm equivalent."Ah. My mistake, sorry about that. Used a wrong crop factor from the table. Need to get more coffee :)
"G16 and Ti3 function perfectly well at that temperature"
-- Do you keep the cameras in the pocket, or do you allow them to actually cool down to the air temperature? I found that when a camera - any camera - is cold enough, the batteries die almost immediately.