Jim DT: I see two schools of thought here about the eventual role of mirrorless. Olympus, Panasonic, Fuji, Samsung and parts of Sony seem to believe that once EVF's and improved focusing technologies hit their stride, SLR's, with their extra mechanical pieces and big fat pentaprisms will become obsolete.
Canon and Nikon seem to believe that mirrorless is OK for people upgrading from digicams, but that for "real" photography, you need a DSLR.
I believe that current high-end DSLRs, with many years of development and experience behind them are truly superb picture-taking machines and probably the best choice for the most demanding users. However, the "serious" mirrorless camp is catching up quickly. And, with Moore's law on their side, they will continue to improve. Canon and Nikon could well find themselves champions of a disrupted technology!
moores law is in fact kind of dead. and really has not much place as far as sensors anyways. and besides, DSLR's can advance as well.
the only way mirrorless will ever dominate the market, is when canon and Nikon remove the mirrors and sell F and EF mount lenses on MILC cameras.
until then it has a snowballs chance in well, you know where.
straylightrun: The answer is no. Canon is too concerned mirrorless will cannibilize their DSLR lines and cheapen their brand name and reputation.
right, that's why the M3 has the exact same guts as their new top of the line rebels.
CameraLabTester: Sadly, Canon is lukewarm to inventing a killer mirrorless gadget thinking it will be a shotgun that would would blow one of their legs off.
Canon loyal flock are happy with their genre, and NOT changing ship.
Canon haters are happy (and laughing) at this mediocre offering.
Canon is in a "no win- no win" situation on this.
canon will continue to sell cameras, more cameras than all MILC venders put together sell. Rabid fanboys of MILC that think the world revolve around them will continue to think that. the world will go on as we know it. Olympus will create mighty sexy photo toys, Panasonic wil make new bodies, fuji will go so retro they'll make a film body. to which all 100 of their fans will collapse down on their knees in spastic ecstasy. Sony will probably come out with another mount, it's been two years - I'm sure they are bored of the FE mount by now.
.... people will continue to whine bitch and moan about Nikon and canon who will continue to be the only two companies that are clearly making a profit on cameras. who people will still very quietly buy their cameras, use them and be entirely happy - not knowing that they have been pronounced as archaic by the upper society of photographers that linger around DPreview.
in other words, things will continue as normal around here ;)
Battersea: Leaving a viewfinder off shows Canon is not serious. A point and shoot without viewfinder is fine, to save cost and size. No ILC will ever be truly small especially when carrying an alternate lens or external flash. Why not make it a tiny bit larger and include an EVF?
odd in that vein how come the X-A2 doesn't have a viewfinder? or the A5100, or any of the PEN's .. clearly there is a problem here!
Randy Veeman: For those who said Canon mirrorless is doing well in Japan, here you go. They are outselling Fuji, Pentax and Nikon. http://petapixel.com/2015/01/31/graph-mirrorless-camera-industry-japan-changed-2014/
no it's been predimonantly Olympus and sony the past few years .. look it up. Panasonic has dived.
dylanbarnhart: Everybody secretly wanted Canon to dominate the mirrorless market. When it didn't, we declared Canon failed us.
On the contrary, it's a good thing that Canon is not serious about mirrorless. Canon should focus on what it does well, which is DSLR, and leave mirrorless to the other players.
The real mistake is to introduce the M system at all. Canon should have taken a strong stand and not divert R&D money to mirrorless. Had they invested more in DSLR, maybe their recent DSLR releases wouldn't be so negatively received by the enthusiast community.
and the winner for the most clueless post on this article goes to............
prossi: I'd flip the whole argument around...why did sony put so much money and time to develop mirrorless cameras like the a6000?? I can understand Olympus being purely an optics company. But sony? Getting into the whole camera business, buying minolta and all that...it was not for the growth prospects that's for sure. Sometimes I wonder if it was just for the satisfaction to drive Canon out of business...
lol if they are trying to do that or have been, they are failing miserably at it.
well sony isn't dominating Japan. it's really right now a two horse race with Olympus - however to be fair to sony, Olympus is buying marketshare right now.
borax: Of course Canon is taking MILC seriously. OVF is dying, EVF is the future. What Canikon have trouble with, is the transition between DSLR and MILC, specially in entry level cameras. Even if MILC are better and better... they still don't have fast AF as DSLRs etc... And you can't invest billions of $ in a new lens/body family which won't match customers' expectations. When the market is ready, they will launch real good products. For the moment they choose to concentrate on other goals.
actually Justa according to Nikon
- there was no need for "full frame" at all at one time, - Flourite elements were just prone to break / crack- DO optics are just a fad (well Nikon themselves didn't say this)
nnowak: I live in the USA and will be importing the M3 ASAP, whether Canon USA likes it or not. I have the original M and all four EF-M lenses, importing one from Canada and another from Hong Kong.
11-22mm IS lens is fantastic22mm lens is even better18-55mm IS lens is better than the standard Rebel kit lenses55-200mm lens very good and rivals my 100-400L out to 200mm
What else do I use on the camera...EF 50mm 1.4 makes a great portrait lensEF 100-400mm L gets used a lot for everything from dragonflies to moose, handheld, at all times of day.TS-E 24mm works great for stitching landscapesSigma 50-150mm f2.8 no longer back focuses like it did on my dSLR
I couldn't care if the M3 had a small viewfinder. The lack of viewfinder means the camera can be smaller and/or rear LCD bigger (no squashed 16:9 like the A6000).
As feeble as Canon's attempts may be, no other manufacturer can fully match the lenses I typically use on my M. I just wish Canon USA would stop complicating matters.
check the M forum there's a long long thread on the subject.
Richard Franiec: Thanks to this story, more people know about EOS M3 than ever before and interest in the camera is raising according to the survey.Shame on you, Canon marketers, bring the M3 to USA. LOL.
abrasive .. if you don't bring the camera up to your face, and weep tears of joy as you re-discover your love for photography - then seriously you're using the wrong MILC. ;)
intruder61: @ rrccad....FF may not make sense for some, but Canon may fit a FF sensor in the M4 .... there's plenty of room in there, plus a FF body for under $1000....??..you never know ;)
meh the lenses don't really save that much over making a small full frame EF mount.
nnowak: I checked all of the dimensions, and the Canon M series is capable of handling a full frame sensor better than the Sony cameras. Canon already has all of the technology in their toolbox to build a full frame mirrorless camera with dual pixel AF that could blow away the competition in every possible metric. The same goes for their lens design capabilities.
I have no idea why Canon, and especially the USA subsidiary, are holding back. The current M series are Rebel cameras minus a bunch of finicky and expensive mechanical components removed. No flapping mirror or penta-mirror optical finder should make the M cheaper to build and/or more profitable. Even a $2,500 full frame M5S should be just as profitable as the $3,700 5DS.
Wish I knew what on earth they were waiting for and how much longer I am going to need to wait.
full frame makes little sense really.
however it would be nice if canon make their own focal reducer.
" I just wish Canon USA would stop complicating matters." I so agree.
but on the other hand, thank you canon for making the M3 + EVF kit for 500 USD in japan on preorder too.
JRFlorendo: Canon just needs to build these fast EF-M lenses; 14f1.2, 21f1.2, 35f1.2, 50f1, 85f1.2, 100f2 and 135f2. Canon will be back in the game in a heart beat
is that a bad thing RAW?
t he ILC market is dominated by the lower tiered models whether it be the D3xxxx series the Rebel series, the lower tiered PEN's, and sony A3,A5 series bodies of the world.
it's not dominated by what gives enthusiasts wet pants.
if canon wants to take it seriously, then they need to find a way to get the consumer to move to mirrorless, when the consumer is frankly quite happy to stay with what they have - dslr's for the most part. (consumers that have purchased ILC's not consumers that have purchase cameras in the generic sense).
cdembrey: Times change, but Canon doesn't. At one time serious photography was done using 8x10 cameras. At one time Full Frame 35mm cameras were called miniature cameras, and pros didm't use them.
Mirrorless is just another progression of downsizing cameras, that has been going on for over 100 years. And Canon does't "get-it." They see the M3 as a camera for young women, something a "real man" wouldn't want.
So after 20 + years of using Canon, I'm switching to Sony and an adapted Tilt & Shift lens.
I guess you really don't know camera history much do you?
the 1930's through really early 70's was dominated by small rangefinder cameras.
AngryCorgi: Why ask if they are taking it seriously? The don't release half of their "M" hardware in the states as it is. Fear of failure is driving the train...even they don't believe in their products at this point.
besides releasing it in the market that only has a 15% share of a 25% overall ILC share will make much difference?
Cipher: Canon should look at Fujifilm. Even though their cameras aren't the best at AF and need to use specific RAW converters to get the best result, they have a loyal following. IMHO, CSC are not about getting the best IQ. It's about enjoying photography. I know my E-M5 can't compete with my D700 & D800 IQ-wise. But it's the camera I want with me when I go on vacation or family dinners or just going out to do some casual shooting.
a loyal following with less than 3% overall ILC marketshare.. yes that's who they should be going after for sure!
I think they need to round out the EF-M consumer grade lenses first to be honest.
canon and Nikon have a finite ability to create n number of lenses per year, they're not going to drop EF / F mount lens development to come out with a few esoteric lenses.
they DO need a collapsible 18-55 zoom, macro, and a short range small telephoto and a normal prime. the rest? not really. esoteric primes like that? no. now I'd certainly like to see the IS USM primes that canon has been making moved down to EF-M. they are light small and very optically good.
most consumers don't go above kit zooms - and this body and lens lineup certainly isn't for enthusiasts.
the only thing going for the lenses to date is they are cheap, small, light and good. and cover a range from 11 to 200mm. no one else can lay claim to that for APS-C or larger.
what this person is suggesting is basically moving away from light and small and cheap.
Horshack: Great article. My take is a bit different. I think Canikon are letting other players burn through R&D money to profitlessly develop the market to see what comes of it. If the MILC market takes off then Canikon can enter it on their terms and profitably exploit its demand - I don't see much risk of being locked out as a late-comer, esp with Canikon's brand recognition. If the MILC market peaks and declines then Canikon saved a bunch of NRE not chasing the market while keeping focus on profitably iterating its DSLR products.
you sure there's that much real interest in the FE mount? i'ts not selling over top of FF dslr's in any market, and isn't even a high seller in MILC's.
sony's betting the farm on it though.