Earthlight: Imagine if Canon came out with a 36 mp sensor ...by stitching two of their venerable 18 mp APS-C sensors together. That would show them! :)
"Check out the comparison with the 5D MkIII:
Thanks! The results above are quite typical for the newer Sony sensors...
One would expect Canot to play in the same league... if not leading, like a decade ago. In stead, i expect that Canot will try to leapfrog Sony/Nikon, Fuji, and Samsung with 2-3 heroical efforts... and eventually do like Nikon... by that time having lost a big share of its pro niche.
KAllen: At Canon we see impossible....then give up.
A ship of Canot's size can NOT turn around too fast... for the same reason, nor can it go bankrupt after merely a few bad years...
They command too much market share and branding power (on which they rely) to succumb over night. And then thay've still got lucrative niches, e.g. the pros, whose expenses are tax-deductible. Here the margins are arguably an order of magnitude higher than the Rebel's.
irony aside, probably Canot will try stalling the game some more... E.g., by again reusing their ancient CMOS in 'innovative' ways: Overlay / multiple stacked sensors (pseudo 2.5/3D stacking), hybrid sensels, new column ADCs, new ulenses etc... all perhaps in the same 40+ nm CMOS fab predating by 3-4 yrs. the Lehman Bros financial collapse :-).
Will take care as before NEVER to compare (or even mention) their antiquated CMOS vs. the current 14/18nm generations... don't ask, don't tell ... :-)
The visceral response against Canot's negative campaign (about no product, but a marketing campaign...) => this audience has little tolerance margin left for Canot, particularly after the Masaya-san "we're the best" interview.
Perhaps Sony or Fuji could've gotten away with such negative marketing blunders, given their recent record tracks of actual innovation. Yet Canot certainly not, as shown in ca. 1.6K flames here...
Net effect on my own future 'roadmap' purchasing decisions: Focus on the Sony and Nikon (FF) mounts. Keep an eye on Fuji's X-series. Relegate Canot to P&S A-series for family and birthday gifts; avoid a future investments in their mounts, however large and inviting they seemed to me a decade ago.
Thank you, Canot, for eventually sorting it out for me! (- after a protracted dilemma "what if later they change ...?" )
Canon's new campaign is negative, in fact it's overloaded with negativity more than any social networking mood manipulation experiment (worth a google).
Little wonder its 1500-strong feedback on DPR in the same vein, NEGATIVE, and the ill-will this marketing experiment has generated: One harvests what one's has sown...
Canon has broken into new territory, together with breaking the rules #1, #2 and #3 of marketing: Always adopt a POSITIVE, CONFIDENT, CAN-DO!
Canon, pls. address the critique not by words and counter-arguments, never by contempt or denial, but by constructive proof to the contrary: Scheme, method solving the issues => Product!
If Canon's CMOS fabs are arguably left behind the SoA (state-of-the-art) by ca. half dozen generations (14, 18, 22, ..., 40+ nm), this may indeed affect their sensors and vertical integration. Yet Nikon has shown that these are not show-stoppers, albeit itself not a model in innovation vs. Sony et al.
Negative marketing doesn't sell product.
Where's the Canon who's pioneered the production of CMOS sensors, first sub-$1000 dSLR, not to mention the long line of AF and DIGIC achievements, etc....?
While in the multi-B$ evolutionary process you may no longer keep up with Samsung, Intel et al. - moving to 14nm CMOS and below, one can not find proper words for your marketing spin... Embarrassingly pathetic?
We thought that eventually you'll recover, move over to Sony sensors, innovate everything else - and surprise us with new series of dSLRs and ILCs. Truly innovative.
Since yrs. you're spiralling down faster and faster, while the awed spectators on the ground expect a miracle: Your amazing feat of acrobacy every moment now... with Canon soaring again above everybody else...
Kodak has invented the digital photography decades ahead of the rest, and you. It died, albeit it took 20+ yrs of painfully obvious lack of market understanding.
Like Kodak and other greats before, now it's your denial phase. Not nice.
D1N0: Great Job Canon. Now stick in a Sony sensor.
Joseph: I'm not holding any breath, knowing how many years, even decades, it takes to change the incumbents... Meanwhile i'm shooting a variety of cameras, and much appreciate an OVF whenever i'm lucky enough to find one.
I don't root for any particular sensor size/format. But i avoid whenever possible the joint-tearing neck-breaking bodies, when lighter/smaller tools can still do the job.
Though i'm not using them yet, Sony's Q-series shows how small an APS-C camera can be. With that i could hike, run, climb, ski, canoe & portage... as an example, vs. the studio- and car-oriented pro-dSLR's
Even with the best Sony sensor (if ever), largest buffer and fastest AF, this design will remain confined to its niche. May sell in the 10s of K units, perhaps cross into 100K... and hopefully signals the end of an awkward transition era from SLRs to (true) digital cameras, as started by Kodak in the mid'70s, and finishing not soon enough with Canikon's endless variations of multi-pound dSLRs.
Note: I still shoot sometimes mechanical Nikons, and process my own silver halide... besides plethora of digital Canons, NEX and NX bodies taking the same lenses :-)
The 7Dmk2 marks the apotheosis of CFO-driven corporate design that makes even Nikon seem like a bold innovator in the dSLR space.
Cipher: I think people with drones and other RC hobbiests might like these cameras. What Sony really needs to do is provide an API to allow people to write their own apps to control the camera. That would open up many other possible uses for this camera.
1) Replace pop-up flash with an OVF, as already done by Sony.2) Make it ergonomically usable as *standalone* still and videocam, even w/o an attached screen or poped-up OVF.3) Attach also to dSLR's as 2nd lens for stereo-/3d or multifunctional shooting (i must protect this ASAP) :-).Mitch
Pro: Less solar / IR heat absorption => Cooler operation, better for sensor and battery life.
Con: Visibly striking from distance; hence no war zone or safari operations. Arguably gimmicky, though trendy for some :-)
Seems that Canon's innovation has moved to cosmetics :-(
Kudos for taking the risks: FF (aka. pro) + 12Mpix (phones brag with 2-3x more) + NEX body (aka, non-pro) + ext. 4k recorder (extra CAPEX) + no 10bit (aka. amateur) = 7s !
Potentials: May shake the status quo in videography, away from 5D and GH. May offer near pro output and 4K for the rest of us... if cheaper recording solutions come from China, and if heat is not an issue for long videos. Hopefully its stills will be clean and 2-3 steps beyond the current DR.
Those cheap 4k 27" TN-based monitors will fall under their current $6-700 (see Dell, Lenovo, and a few others). For 100% AdobeRGB gamut and 31" IPS we must still pay >1K$. But now we can produce 4k content and see it at 60fps, too :-) (if the GPUs, HDMI etc. sort out their teething pains).
good move, unexpectedly bold, Sony!
migus: 111gr. 16-50 OIS is impressive, if the IQ is typical of Samsung's 20-50kit or their primes...!
Few years ago i've bought two NX100's just for their 20-50kit lenses; each costed ca. $250 with camera attached :-). Compared against nikon's 20 and 50 primes (the 'legends') and was often superior. And yet Samsung is rarely mentioned as camera maker...
Net: The pro version glass from Sammy may be great, but not investment grade - unless it becomes usable on Canon and Sony bodies. Personally I wish i could use the NX lenses on NEX bodies (i prefer their sensors and JPG engines) w/o major engineering, but this is a pipe dream.
@ChuckTa "I rather have a good IQ lens then a mediocre lens with OIS"
Agreed. The OIS is over-valued IMHO vs. its real benefits in IQ (little for landscape and for the modern APS+ sensors). OIS is also sensitive, as proven by the many broken L and VR lenses i've seen at work. One drop on a hard floor and it's often over...
By contrast, the little NX20-50 kit is optically decent and mechanically more robust. I also love the manual zoom, except for video.
"Samsung uses/makes excellent ASPC sensors for the NX bodies. Don't shoot jpeg."
Granted, its APS sensors may be less then one generation behind Sony and Fuji; nearly on par for all practical purpose.
JPG: Here i take exception, seeing what the above competitors (and also Oly) can recently deliver in OOC JPGs... Hardly worth using LR5, except special shots. Samsung must invest in better JPG, since one doesn't expect to buy cars with DIY engines. In 2014 an APS-C camera must meet a certain JPG standard IMHO.
111gr. 16-50 OIS is impressive, if the IQ is typical of Samsung's 20-50kit or their primes...!
Plan, thought, work, dedication... thank you for these results!
Overall the Df scored more comments on DPR than any other recent camera. That's plenty of feedback for marketing analytics.
However, I'm appalled by the number and quality of personal attacks here - unrelated to the factual product and its features. Pros, amateurs, voyeurs, trolls etc. emanating a bestiary of strong feelings, and a scarcity of civilised dialog.
I wonder why is photography generating such visceral responses? Mitch
First time a camera gets 4K comments?Troll feast or invaluable feedback, Nikon's (et al.) marketing has a field day crunching all the WWW response to Df. The S/N ratio is now a relative matter of tuning your business analytics tools; there's plenty of gold even in the apparently most 'trollish' posts. Crunch your servers, gentlemen :-).
Target market: I'm located near the center of Nikon's normal distribution here. I'm that nostalgic old fart who grew up with rangefinders and SLRs, wet labs (done my own Velvia/Provia till recently), knobs and MF.
Hence i asked myself about this new Nikon Df ?!?So... I grabbed 2 beloved Nikon SLRs + a bunch of MF glass and tried them. Again, together, like in the good ole' times... For 30min. i forgot all my digital toys and have tried to rekindle the old fire of big-bright OVF-based focusing, with complete manual control of everything. The lovely clicks, tactile feedbacks, manuality at its best... SLR Nirvana again...!
Then the colder realities started to pour down on me, crashing and burying my dreams. Too big for hikes. I couldn't focus manually w/o tears and agonizing doubt, while the same lenses on a NEX took .3sec . No video, which sometimes i want in 4k and 10bit for 30s/week. Its sensor costs ca. $250, yet the Df>11x for an old body lift... etc. Sadly, not for me. Mitch-
Exemplary First Impressions review: Concise, objective yet personal, factually subjective, lively and neutral - kudos!
+ EVF+ solid build
Yet $699 for a 1-lb. 10x zoom with 1/1.7" in 2014 seems loaded w/ contradictions. Mitch