neo_nights: [OFF-TOPIC]@Lars (or anyone else at DPReview) - Few weeks ago I've looked up for any info about a successor for the Lumia 1020 and, apparently, Microsoft will abandon the "big sensor" route because it was a niche market and Microsoft realised that it'd be better for them to do just like everyone else.
Do you have any info on that?
All you lusting for the large imager might have another shot at it if Nokia builds and sells an Android device beginning in third quarter 2016.
In my opinion though, that boat has sailed and will be an even smaller niche 18 months from now. The future lies with folded optics, mems, lens arrays, and massive computation, all better suited to the thin form factor of smartphones.
paulbysea: Well it would if you could still download iOS8. which has now been withdrawn by apple due to several problems with it.
iOS 8.02 has been released.
alexpaynter: The camera module is not the same because it has a new sensor. You can argue that the depth of the module must be the same because all other factors are the same, but they aren't.
I don't know if this is the case with the iPhone 6 but new sensors tend to be able to take light in from wider angles (the isocell is an example of this) and therefore the lens depth can be less.
Having said that, I hate the protruding lens. The could have made the camera the same depth as before with a flush lens and a much bigger battery.
I think I will just wait for sony z3x (if it isn't just someone's fantasy creation). I am not sure how you can fit a 2/3" sensor with an f1.2 lens in such a thin phone without any protrusion.
WRT the protruding lens: Not having one in hand, I can only guess, but my guess would be a ferritic stainless steel that a magnet might stick to. given its precise alignment with the camera module and its cylindrical exterior, one could argue that some intrepid soul will create a lens set to mate with this protrusion, and I would bet that the engineering team made lemonade out of a lemon with that configuration.
Pure speculation on my part of course.
Skulls: Can't save in RAW? All the smoke and mirrors and a crappy jpg?
iPhoto is being reworked into a more robust photo editing app replacing Aperture and available on both iOS and OSX. Perhaps that will be the key to future addition of RAW.
tbcass: It will be many years before these new engineers will come up with anything worthwhile. Since the camera manufacturers are way ahead I doubt this will get Apple anywhere. I see the days of Apples dominance failing fast which is fine with me.
The iPhone isn't a niche camera, so it isn't going to have niche features, and there won't be a tradeoff of a "bump" for a camera. They'll get OIS when they or Sony can design it to the thickness of the iPhone.
But take the lesson that Apple taught the industry with its own 64 bit ARM design, and even their 5s lens design; Apple wants to control its destiny, and will buy companies and necessary talent to do so.
Daryl Cheshire: Small cameras with non removeable primes can be fine tuned but the future is with cheaper lenses and sharpened with software. I hope camera makers don't pass off the cheaper lenses as more expensive ones, but DXOMark might show those up.It's an interesting thought that a cheap prime can have the CA and the other defects compensated by faster processors.Sure this lens optimisation is already happening with mobile phone sized lenses and can be scaled up to SLRs.Also as we move away from the 'tyranny of 35mm film' lens sizes and sensor sizes will reach a standard size similar to MFT but it's a format war at the moment.I think of cars as a parallel as they take on the areodynamic 4 cylinder and mostly look the same.The full frame SLRs and lenses were really a sop to film experienced pros and will soon be the new 'large format' as there will always be a need for full frame for the boutique pro market
It's a safe bet that it doesn't sell even at the rate of the low end Nokias, and certainly magnitudes behind sales of iPhones and Galaxies.
Ultimately, niche smartphones with flagship camera features are uneconomic to produce and market; a dead end.
The real challenge is to fit ever evolving optic systems into thin form factors, and that is where R&D is best spent by Sony and Samsung as examples.
Menneisyys: My complaints with this gadget are as follows:
- what about making a Universal Bluetooth version? I have several phones (incl. both iOS and Android ones) and it's highly possible I'll switch to Android because of Apple's lack of innovation. However, TODAY, I'd like to shoot with my 5/5s.
- what about making a cradle capable of housing iPhones in their case? I've got my iPhone 5 in the OtterBox Defender case and the 5s in the OtterBox Commuter and wouldn't want to take the phones away from their cases.
You see innovation as a plethora of features and i/o spread across many, many different devices. I see you as much more fascinated with the activity you have with your smartphone than the average. Good for you.
I stated Apple sold hundreds of millions of well balanced smartphones. This is a conscious decision to impart stability into the iPhone market; hence why the latest iOS has 74% uptake, and these devices such as the Motrr Galileo are available to iPhone first.
I have to laugh at your Lightning comment; seems the USB group is coming out with yet another interface spec to compete with Lightning's ease of insertion design. Might arrive in 2016. By then, there will probably be another half a billion iOS devices using Lightning on the market.
Enjoy your activities.
The reason that iOS generally is the first in these accessories is that there are 100's of millions of devices that are physically compatible; less risk for the developer, though even Motrr was caught off guard by the release of the Lightning interface.
Adding compatibility for specific protective cases is less risky once the accessory is successful in the market.
I don't understand your "lack of innovation" statement; perhaps your idea of innovation and Apple's diverged somewhere along the way. I'm an engineer and I certainly see Apple innovating.
Seems like you are really speaking of lack of "choice"; Apple isn't keen on niche products, e.g. Nokia 1025, and builds high volumes of well balanced premium smartphones.
I was thinking about a similar gimbal system when the Sony QX100 was announced. A 1 inch sensor system of this nature would be a good fit; better if remote zoom was enabled. I would hope that Sony improves the QX's and Motrr creates a gimbal for them down the road.
FrankieJ: If not simulated, the results look pretty good.Some people do not want to get any more serious about photography than this and I am fine with whatever someone else wants to do.I personally do not own or desire an iPhone but this looks like a fun accessory for those that enjoy using their phones for videography. I must wonder though, who will the users be? It seems the reliance on an external application to un-squeeze the video captured will rule out a lot of the "keep-it-simple" folks who are the bulk of iPhones users.
"For the best workflow, we are working with FiLMiC Pro to incorporate a 1.33x anamorphic de-squeeze in their first quarter 2014 release for full in-app compatibility with the Anamorphic Adapter"
FiLMiC Pro is an app ($4.99) that gives cinematic controls to the iPhone. With FiLMiC Remote ($3.99), you can control an iPhone running FiLMiC Pro remotely with another iPhone or an iPad.
With the lens, apps, and available rigs for iPhones from various sources, it is indeed possible to use the iPhone 5/5S for digital film production, and there are in fact many examples of "shorts" produced using the iPhone for the camera.
Seems like a pretty solid low cost digital film system for budding directors.
Oh, and how about this remote gimbal for iPhone:
jcmarfilph: If you really want to shoot using smartphone, don't force yourself or just eat your pride and buy pureview phones and not an overpriced mediocre iPhones.
Interesting that you appear to be the first to bash the iPhone in any thread, clearly without any provocation.
Says something about your state of mind.
Enjoy your phone, as I will enjoy mine.
Fred Dominic: Actually, the new ipad air with 128GB of storage is quite a useful portable computer (and only 1 lbs!), so for a photojournalist on the road, taking pictures and sending them in quickly, there is much to be said in the ipads (or any such tablet for that matter) favor.
I agree, however, that there needs to be RAW import and processing. Does anyone know if there is a RAW engine that runs on the iPad? That is what I was hoping to find when saw the post title. If its not there yet, my prediction is that 2 years from now, it will be common.
While not touted nor supported yet in iOS by Apple (AFAIK), OpenCL is supported by ARM on the 64 bit ARMv8 architecture. In theory, OpenCL would enable the GPU's to process massively parallel numeric operations, just as Nvidia's proprietary CUDA does; perfect for RAW processing.
OpenCL is supported by Adobe in some of their applications today, Premiere and Photoshop being notable. Perhaps some future version of Photoshop Touch will support OpenCL on tablets.
Michael Ma: Don't cut yourself short by losing the ability to fully process raw on a tablet. Use a powerful laptop instead. You can the latest and greatest i7, 8GB ram, SSD, for less than price of an iPad if you buy a Toshiba, Asus, Samsung. An Apple is going to cost you 3x more, but you'll have a nice looking case.
"Is this about immediate gratification vs. ultimate quality?
More like "immediate feedback leads to a higher level of ultimate quality".
Kim Letkeman: Ah yes ... the usual dichotomy. People who believe in using only the right tool for the job and who take their photography very seriously slag the whole idea of editing on a toy (and yes, I still find tablets to be toys because of the form factor more than anything else.)
And the rest fall anywhere along the continuum of totally inexperienced to experienced but willing to sacrifice editing power for the perceived convenience of using a tablet and defend the concept with the usual litany of "you have never tried it yet you have an opinion" ...
Luckily, this perennial war of mismatched skills and expectation drives traffic on these sites ... :-\
Perhaps these leading edge products require leading edge developers and users to break out from the current workflow conventions.
I'm one of those that bought the "toy" iPad Air. I loaded Photoshop Touch plus the Apple apps. Looking forward to buying a Cam Ranger and giving that a go.
Having a more granular approach to editing is just one of the factors for tablets in a workflow including compacts, milc's and dslr's, smartphones, notebooks, laptops and desktops.
I'm pleased that these options are available, and that more powerful apps will ultimately appear for tablets to take advantage of current capabilities.
jcmarfilph: I am not sure how an iPhone with mediocre sensor would come close to these two cams, maybe in the next 2 or 3 years when Apple realized that 1/3 sensor is for fisher-price camera only.c
Give it a rest.
The iPhone is thinner with no camera protrusion., hence a smaller lens module. That's a design decision that I agree with.
The fact that Apple gets such a high level of IQ out of such a small imager comes down to the level of engineering effort.
Apple also has a class leading processor to give it an edge in shot to shot performance, panoramas and video, again a design decision.
Not everyone wants a large smartphone that won't sit flat on a table.
Zlik: The video stabilization score is somehow surprising. A low 49 with hardware stabilizaion? And the iphone 5s has 54 ?
Having used and seen what the stability of the lumia 920 in video, I am a little perlpexed.
In the "Cons" under the video tests:
Walking movements remain uncorrected by the video stabilization
Over-correction of video stabilization when steadied (on a tripod).
How can they rate a iPone5s with sub-par/mediocre sensor higher than this one. Only an idiot will believe in this DXOcrap mark. Do a side-by-side comparison between the two and post here the results (not just a useless numbers) and you will see that this camera will stomp iPhone5s in any department.
A good implementation of a lesser sensor wins against a bad implementation of a better sensor in Dx0's test of still images and video.
Perhaps you should direct your ire at Nokia for screwing up the WP implementation of the 1020, seeing as though the Pureview 808 came out on top in the same test, and fairly so.
msmithphd80: Mine's being shipped out to me tomorrow. I decided to wait - originally I was going to get the RX100, but ended up excited about the new features - low-light photography and using my phone as a remote via wifi I'm just too curious about. I found a comparison chart here: http://www.squidoo.com/sony-rx100m-ii-and-sony-rx1r-price-and-review
Be advised that NFC hasn't taken off in the U.S., it's doubtful it will takeoff, and BTLE replaces NFC with much richer capabilities.
BTLE is ubiquitous on recent smartphones, and all iPhones from the 4S. It will be able to communicate with other BTLE devices and sensors. In 2014, BTLE takes off driven by iBeacon.
Peter Viccari: Apple have done a great job updating IOS. Pretty much all the functionality is improved and the whole thing feels more snappy on my iPhone 5. Camera App. is excellent - and I think the new look is great too. Well done from me.
Remember this is a phone (with a camera in it) - which is very useful at times, and fun... No one should expect more than that from a smart phone.
I'm cool with the 1020 and its capabilities, but there are many compromises that had to be made in the package and in performance.
So the 1020 is a great niche camera, but the bulk of flagship camera sales are Samsung and Apple. Any improvements made by them resonate through ultimately 100's of millions of users.
Enjoy your Nokia 1020 and its offspring, but you might want to tone down your rhetoric WRT OIS, et al, to the reality of a 7.6 mm thick iPhone.
RRJackson: Pixel density will drive things towards larger sensors. The D800 is already up above 36 megapixels. Even with a 135 sensor you're still working the glass pretty hard at resolutions like that. Stepping up to 645 will add a decade to the high end. It's been kind of a slog to get there because it's been really hard to make larger sensors, but things keep moving along.
Mitchell Feinberg had a 10 megapixel 8" x 10" back built to replace the Polaroids he used to shoot when setting up. In time I think we'll see large format backs that don't have to rely on scanning. Of course, sensors aren't flat like film so there may be severe limits to the range of the movements.
Personally, I'm still waiting for a digital 6x9 folder that doesn't weigh any more than the pocketable beasties of days gone by. Hopefully I'll still have some of my vision left by the time they roll out. ;-)
There are already surveillance imagers that are pushing gigapixels albeit not single die. But single die, large format imagers will happen, eventually, if history is any indication. Curious if latency issues with imagers that large might mean a matrix of A/D convertors on a substrate layer to boost fps.