Thuravi Kumaaran: A fixed lens, full frame sensor, camera like this for landscaping, Night photography, panoramic, macro etc., from canon – may be a dream?
From Canon ? No way ;)It would undercut their reflex full frame sells...you know.the same stupid arguments making them loosing on "serious" mirrorless market.That's why Sony are probably laughing in their corner.I'm not a Sony fanboy (Olympus here), but a SONY A7R II with a nice lens...i'm sold :DSony lacks on the lens side. Unlike Canon ;)
Stan Powers: So I am wondering, from any of you who’ve handled both, how the EM-10 II compares to the Panasonic LX100 in terms of portability. Do they feel about the same size? I’ve used the LX100, but not the EM-10 II. I was able to jacket-pocket the LX100 and it looks like the same would be true for the EM-10 II w/ 14-42 EZ and / or small prime (eg, Oly 17 or Panny 20). Looking for that elusive, 'perfect' travel camera!
Same point of view ;) Sensors are the same on all m43 16MP.I still love my E-PL5. Combined with the mighty Pana 20mm ( i prefer it to 17 or 25), it is small enough to take everywhere.And you can buy a separate vf-2/vf-3 second hand for cheap and use it sometimes only.Pana 20mm is a LOT better than LX100 lens.E-M10 II is already bigger without integrated EVF. If you add it to the size, there is a big difference for "pockets".Take a tour to camerasize dot com ;)
gLOWx: Big problem : when Sony will provide a stepped up M43 sensor ?If they don't, M43 format is simply dead.And i like my M43 PEN too much to accept this :D
May be Sony simply want to kill Panasonic/Olympus M43 line...Not providing a new sensor is the best way to do it ;)
I don't speak about raising MP count only. A new 16 MP could be enough for me. But with upgraded dynamic, color range and sensitivity.LX100 "washed out" lens flare left me cold. There is no more real innovation in M43 world.It is time to move lines, again.
Question of time=lost sells.Nice to see Sony still providing nice efforts on M43 side.This 20MP sensor delivers from gx8 pictures i seen.Didn't known it was released ;)The troll salute you :D
Big problem : when Sony will provide a stepped up M43 sensor ?If they don't, M43 format is simply dead.And i like my M43 PEN too much to accept this :D
Macjack: I have been looking for a camera with, viewfinder, pull out or flip screen, small size and within my limited budget.4 cameras seem to have what I need, Fuji X30, olympus omd10,Panasonic GX7 and Sony a6000. All have negative issues for me, but my main concern is sensor size concerning landscapes and grass. Comments on this site say there is a lack of detail with the FujiX30. What does anyone think please?My main subjects are flowers, fungi and general landscapes. I have noticed a lack of detail in my current compact Ixus and Fuji S9600 with a 1/1.7 sensor.My problem with the other 3 cameras is the quality of their kit lenses and price of additional lenses.
@cjep1 : yes, i was thinking about RX100 II, with additionnal viewfinder too.Even an old XZ-2 + viefinder or LX7 + viewfinder can be good options against X30. I totally love my XZ-2 ring command, even if i use an E-PL5.
Biowizard: Cameras made (mostly) of metal, with real dials, real focus rings, etc., are so much nicer than blobs of amorphous plastic controlled via menus. Just being retro styled does NOT mean you are cut off from the latest in electronic wizardry, as my wonderful OM-D E-M1 shows. It looks and handles a LOT like my 1976-vintage OM-1, and yet I can control it remotely via an iPad, process and play with raw images on board, and do so much more than simply spend all my pocket money on spools of Kodachrome 25.
I loved "do so much more than simply spend all my pocket money on spools of Kodachrome 25." ;)Sometimes, i find funny assertions, made by hipsters lomo, telling they spend less money with their film cameras :D They probably take 1 photo a week...I like touchscreen, EVF...and dials, buttons, rings....Touchscreen is not going to replace all. And "retro style" is not just for hipsters : it is effective on some points. But not all ;)Finding the right balance is the difficult part.
When you take the interchangeable lens path, it costs you a lot of money. Because you NEED to buy good lenses to squeeze the best from the body. On my side, i have already 4 lenses for different purposes ;)Kit lenses are (almost) always average. And so, you loose resolution, even if the sensor is better.You can add viewfinder on some compacts.The question still : inter or fixed lens ? With inter lens, you burn your budget soon ;)
mautre: Dear dreview friends, I just have a question about the present review: Why if the X20 has 77 points this new model has only 76? overall when I see all the good things that has the x20 in the x30 and more advanced features, something that you can tell about it, I´m actually deciding between the 2 models an this is something that stop me to buy the x30, please help!
Like Dxo will bring more than 100 score soon ;)A lot of ppl thought 100 was a % score.
Monvieux: I have no particular affinity for one brand over another although Canon, Nikon, Sony and perhaps Olympus and FujiFilm are the ones I would focus on. It is whomever makes a solid, reliable product for the specs I want. I like the concept of the camera but extra $$ for a viewfinder and a limited range of lens rules this model out for me. I'll wait for the Sony Alpha 7000 or other. Keep it out of NA where camera users may be more critical/insightful and perhaps less committed to a brand. Sites like DPreview do make me think broader than brand.
@jeremyclarke : they don't forget to make a serious mirrorless. They do it on purpose to avoid conflict with their DSLR ;)In the mean time, they are in conflict with all others serious mirrorless makers...but they don't seem to realize it :DWe are going to see heavily discounted Canon cameras (DSLR and mirrorless) soon.
justmeMN: The USA is where mirrorless cameras come to die, and be dumped at deep discounts. :-)
Some wise guy said USA is a strange market where ppl tend to show their big DSLR (and car) to prove their social success.And so, mirrorless are not big enough to win in the USA market ;)I loved this point of view from an american guy. As european, i would never have thought about this point.Of course, Canon sells a lot more in the USA than any part of the world, too.
Once again, Canon try to avoid conflicts between DSLR and mirrorless in THEIR brand.But they forget they already have concurrent products from Sony, Fuji, Olympus, Panasonic and even Samsung now.So, to avoid selling less DSLR in favor of mirrorless, they sell less mirrorless by making them unattractive and don't even sell them in the US market.At the end, they are going to sell less mirrorless...and less DSLR.Good job Canon !Next time, give me the gun to shoot in your foot...it will be less painful than the way you do it.
Dirk Nuary: Sony A6000 is still the champion in this range.
Everything beats M3 in the mirrorless world in this range...so it is easy to take any concurrent product and make it a champion ;)A6000 still a good option, but not the best. There are no best.But there is a worst :D
gLOWx: If you cumulate all IDGAF votes in the last DPR poll about M3, you get 80%USA or not, it is a failure. I'm European, i love mirrorless concept (even if i love OVF pentaprism too).And frankly, Canon or Nikon are my last interest in mirrorless world.Give me a Sony, Fuji, Pana or Oly. May be even a Samsung.They don't pretend to take mirrorless seriously : they do it.
You didn't understood : it was not 20% of market share.It is just ppl CARING about M3. 80% ppl don't even care (like me)And 20% ppl who cares are not going to buy it just because they care.You want to buy one ? Good for you. That's your money, not mine ;)
gLOWx: I'm not really convinced.I don't feel image quality is up to the price and my expectations for an m43 sensor.I was thinking about it to replace my E-PL5.But none of those pictures all around the web made me want to sell my E-PL5 with 20mm f1.7 Panasonic ;)On the other side, 20mm f1.7 is an impressive lens (apart focus speed).I even find my XZ-2 pictures (up to 400 ISO only) on par with all LX100 samples i seen. And it is not the same year and same sensor size...Don't know exactly what is the problem (CA, micro contrast, dynamic, optical quality...?), but there is one for sure.I expected an m43 sensor camera to output much more than a 1/1,7 sensor one.
First difficult choice is : interchangeable lens or fixed compact ?Because (i know it from hard experience) when you start with inter lens...you buy more than expected ;)I started with two lenses (20mm + 40-150) and i added 14-45 (good kit) and 50mm/1.4 legacy. My bag is full :DSo if you want a "do-it-all in a budget" choice, go compact.Those compacts are amazing nowadays ;)
I said i prefer my XZ-2 to LX100, witch is strange comparing sensors.I prefer my E-PL5 + 20mm to anything i owned so far, even XZ-2 ;)I keep XZ-2 because it is convenient to cover 28-112mm in a nutshell, and fast use. And as second camera when i don't want to swap lenses outdoor. f1.8 help to keep ISO 100 in almost all situations. And i've got an FL-36 flash for the rest :DI'm in love with Olympus punch and colors.Fuji and Oly are very similar in their rendering. A matter of taste and settings.My next purchase is probably going to be a Fuji ;)
Things are moving fast for some years. And now even faster.Sony is the biggest camera sensors provider for Nikon, Panasonic, Olympus...and Sony ;)I'm not afraid for their camera division because even if they sell more sensors than cameras, they need some "technical show" to sell them.
Now think about what will happen to Nikon or Canon DSLR lines when, in less than 3 years, mirrorless are going to over sell DSLR, like Samsung CEO said.On my side, i bought Olympus system with some lenses/flash... May be they are going to disappear...or not.Who knows ? I only know it is going to be a big mess sooner than later...and not necessarily the way we think ;)
If you cumulate all IDGAF votes in the last DPR poll about M3, you get 80%USA or not, it is a failure. I'm European, i love mirrorless concept (even if i love OVF pentaprism too).And frankly, Canon or Nikon are my last interest in mirrorless world.Give me a Sony, Fuji, Pana or Oly. May be even a Samsung.They don't pretend to take mirrorless seriously : they do it.
Mirrorless war started in 2008. They still don't take mirrorless seriously.They are the first DSLR maker, so they are going to be the first down to the floor when DSLR will loose its leadership. This is what happens when market flip from one side to another. See what happened in the film days.They have to be the first mirrorless maker in 3 years (estimated statistic date when mirrorless will over sell DSLR) to keep their leadership.And frankly, i don't see Canon anywhere near this point. Nor Nikon.
It is going to be fun in the next 3 years.
bgbs: The only reason why Nikon released this camera is because there is demand for astrophotography, and perhaps it is another avenue for them to get exposed. If astrophotography get dominated by Nikon (even if the market is thin), their name will become synonymous with astrophotography and perhaps that would help propagate their brand.
It is the Canikon way since the beginning ;)They known ppl will buy from them if they provided enough "exposure". Why Red or Yellow brand color ? As far as i know, there is no Oly, Pana or Sony official "color".Canikon know what exposure mean for sure. That's why Minolta died (not enough "pro" oriented). And that's why Pentax was almost dead when Ricoh bought them. Not enough "exposure". Fuji was almost dying too, with their consumer cameras. And they created the X100, combining exposure AND sells.To sell something, you need exposure even more than quality or innovation.Make the best cameras in the world, if no one see them on TV, internet or used by big pros...bye bye. You are dead.Even if Nikon loose money on this camera (not sure about this), they will gain in the long run. It worked...until now ;)
Even if i got other complex softwares for the same task, i still love it.Their online viewer is very nice too.Thanks about the news, i just updated it ;)