InTheMist: Sigma: excellent sensor, WEIRD implementation.
Excellent sensor ? Up to ISO400 only. Ergo: of limited use
Rachotilko: So the camera manufacturers clearly think that they can ask fortune for the aged looks of the bodies.
They should have brought this briliant idea to its logical consequencies and ask progresivelly higher prices for the baroque, mediaeval, Doric Greek, Summerian and stone-age stylings.
@Naveed: surely, I am myself convinced that 1600s/1700s era have - in some respect - reached cultural achievements not matches since.
I just find it really amusing that camera makers charge premiums for the design cues from 1950s.
So the camera manufacturers clearly think that they can ask fortune for the aged looks of the bodies.
gunther35: I actually think the G16 might compete well with my RX100II.
In favor of the G16:
1) Built in viewfinder2) No buffer at 9 fps!3) IQ will be pretty close at the tele focal lengths because the lens is almost 2 stops faster at the tele end.4)Better ergonomics ( I always prefer a smaller lens to body ratio)5)A second custom setting on the dial6)longer telephoto reach7)A remote cable switch
In favor of the RX100II:
1) Better IQ at wide focal lengths and lower light2) Pocketable3) 20MP4) tilting LCD
@KariIceland: aperture and IQ unrelated? The main advantage of large aperture (smaller f-number) -beyond the shallow DOF gimmick- is that it reduces the shutter time, allowing for lower ISO values.
The only reservantion against this camera is that it should have EVF instead of OVF. It alone would make the camera probably smaller and certainly much more usable.
Re "ridiculously small sensor" comments: you guys are ridiculously uninformed. Despite the RX100 1" sensor, it can provide serious IQ advantage over 1/1.7" on wide end only. The lens is not bright enough at mid-to-tele, and does not resolve closeups well enough
The single most important reason leading to Nokia demise was the rise of Android. Google was smardevelopment model to make two crucial desisions:- invite Asian manufacturers to join Android production by offering attractive licensing conditions.- well chosen subset of Java as the primary development environment.
This contrasted sharply with Nokia's Europe based manufacturing and unfortunate choice of l tools offered to application developers (the options being rather exotic dialect of C++ for native development or the very crippled Java in the form of J2ME runtime).
The situation was not helped by Nokia's distracting and consufed encounters with the open source movement: neither the brief episode of open-sourcing the Symbian nor absurd migration of traditional desktop Linux to smartphone environment (MeeGo) produced any business value for Nokia.
It's so human to look for scapegoats, but the truth is that Nokia was doomed before Stefan Elop became its CEO.
I don't get it. By definition, you can't add any DR to camera by firmware update, as it's given by the noise levels of the sensor in the shadow areas.
In other words, this is JPEG tweak, it does not translate to DxOMark results, since these are RAW based.
dennishancock: I find Nokia's whitepaper on the Lumia 1020 to be pseudo-engineering without any math--a.k.a marketing hype--and only serves as the latest example of elucidation through obfuscation. It might serve to make the clueless feel they're purchasing some advanced technology, but really, how is Bayer sensor interpolation noise overcome by (electrically noisier) oversampling?
I noticed marketing-style dishonesty of the text when it tried to convince that cropping-based zooming is better than optical zoom because in case of optical zoom the aperture typicaly narrows down as you zoom in, forcing higher ISO.
They forgot to mention the fact that in case of cropping-based zooming the IQ gets lost at even faster rate, because it reduces the active sensor area used.
Sure they are better than entry level compacts. But not thanks to some mysterious advanced oversampling which is just another name for downsampling) but due to the sensor size.
Frankly they are not pixelpeepable in shadow areas (noise) not even at ISO100. You have to downsample, and then they become no different IQ-wise from any output from similarly sized enthusiast compact sensor.
808 fared better because of larger sensor: by 50%, not 30% as erroneously stated by dpr.
keeponkeepingon: "Although the 1020's sensor is around 30% smaller than the one found in the 808, it's still larger than the 1/1.7" type found in most high-end enthusiast compact cameras. The Lumia 1020's aperture is also 1/3EV faster (F2.2 vs F2.4), which makes up for much of the difference in sensor size."
1/3EV makes up for a 30% reduction in sensor size? I'd love to see the math behind that one.....
I was very excited about this camera but then disappointed in the smaller sensor. I'll believe they compensated for the 30% reduction in size when I can compare some samples side by side, until then my guess is it's slightly worse and no better than the 808.
This also gave me a chuckle:"the 808 performed only slightly better than a 5-year-old-camera"
Let me rewrite that for you:
"The 808, amazingly, performed better than 2007's Canon G9, a camera that dpreview claimed was "as it gets in a compact camera".
Well, that was 2007. How does 808 compare to G15, X10, XZ-2 and RX100 with their bright zoom lens, flashes, hotshoes, viewfinders?
Frankly, I dont see anything revolutionary about these Pureview phones. They use conventional sensors: the hyped oversampling is no different from plain downsampling. The only remarkable part is the prime lens, probably of high resolution.
JEROME NOLAS: Yes, Nokia should be making cameras, can't be so tough, just check what we have on the market...
I dont understand: what do we have on the market ?
I see quite satisfying offer of mirrorless cameras and enthusiast compacts. And they even provide the real zoom, not cropping
1. Is the area of the sensor on this one really smaller than the sensor on 808 only by 30% ? What are the physical dimensions ? I hope you guys are not comparing the diameter: what matters is area.
2. It is definitelly more noisy than 808. The lens is worse too.
3. This is surely a resolution king. But - in contrast to 808 -, shadows suffer a lot, so do corners. And I very much doubt the downsampled 5mpix will be substantially better than downsampled ouput of XZ-2 or G15
Cane: There's a whole lot of people posting on here about a camera they have never touched who have more opinion than brains.
This is a fantastic camera to use. Great photos, great quality, and believe it or not, you can actually take pictures without a viewfinder!
Oh, and for those that think they are creative types, yet think cameras should only be black, I've got news for you. You aren't.
Believe it or not, almost all the posters here have tried to compose in bright sunlight on LCD. You don't need to own K-01 to know the frustration.
Believe it or not, many posters have tried to use PDAF lenses with body in CDAF mode. Again, you don't need to own K-01 to know the frustration.
schaki: Dammit Pentax... GTFO with this joke and that comes from one which like some of the Ricoh compacts though not some of the more questionable products like Pentax Q etc.
I consider Q (especially Q7) to be much less questionable than K-01.Look at it this way: Q is basically an enthusiast P&S with interchangeable lenses. Which is not a bad thing, considering you can attach to it a fisheye, primes and nice zooms.On the other hand K-01 is a unworkabke monster crippled by its lack of CDAF lenses, lack of (optional) viewfinder and by DSLR flange distance.
kgreggain: I own one and paid pretty well full price when it came out. It actually creates decent images. I don't care about all that external crap people are bitching about, for me, it uses my Pentax lenses, and I use a Hoodman for the viewfinder when shooting video. At 895.00 with the 40mm 2.8xs it was not worth it, but at the current of about 400 or so, it's a decent little camera.
I'm not a Pentax fanboy by any means, I just like the camera. I also shoot Nikon and Olympus - I think Pentax got some pretty bad raps about this camera, but all in all it's not that bad.
Sure sensor produces nice imaged. But in order to produce them, the lens have to be focused efficiently, you know. And the whole package has to work in your hands well.How quickly does it focus your PDAF optimised lenses with CDAF ? And how do you use its focus-peeking optimised MF in bright sunlight without viewfinder ?Does really Pentax force you to use its great K-5-like sensor in such a uncomfortablr way ?
While I generally dislike following the herd in my judgements, this time I agree with crowd wisdom. This camera is simply wrongly conceived from the very start. Using PDAF-optimized lenses with CDAF results in poor AF, huge flange distange results in aesthetic/ergonomic disaster, lack of viewfinder makes the focus-peeking assisted MF difficult.Pentax got the concept of mirrorles completelly wrong
I hope at least somebody here has found this an opportunity to pay respect to this creative and industrious man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Zeiss
ogl: I'd like to see more faster lens.
Then go, buy Nikon V2 with bunch of excellent fast primes and you're all set !
Ben O Connor: God what specs! What a cam!
The most serious treathe to Olympus XZ-2. Come on olympus! Now give us the XZ-3 which has same sensor body & specs with ep-5, smilar amazing lens as XZ-2 which is 20mm on the wide, 120mm on tele end. And not above f2.8
Guys, you realize that you ask for impossible ?
Sony RX-100 is just on the border of the possible. It's small overall size was made possible on 1" format exactly by means of slow (f/4.9) lens @ tele.
Having 4/3 instead of 1" with f/2.8 would take you in a completely different territory size-wise. Look here:
That implies increased size - and most likely a substantial one. Would you accept that ?