ThomasSwitzerland: Everybody will protest.
I wanted to buy this Canon FF. But the auto focus points, and the aging sensor, the old fashioned case from the 80s. No way. Thank you <dpreview> for this smart Award. I now bought the Nikon D5200 (no regret, perfect pictures) and attach my Leica lenses with special mounts. Time to market passed with that Canon FF. I could afford the 800E, but drop the FF all together at present tech status. Better sensor times and bodies ahead.
This generation of tech and camera bodies as per the reviews left their peaks for now. End of this year will be a great new wave (and investment horizon).
Sorry OP, I do not mean to offend, but your perspective on brand new 'end of life' FF sensors is about the most ignorant thing I have heard anyone say in a while.
APS-c/x/whatever may be the future for point and shoots and pocket cameras, but all you need to do is look at the consistency of new lenses, preference of professionals and enthusiasts alike, and the money spent by the manufacturers on FF technology to see that it is 'their' future - whether it is yours or not.
Perhaps you simply have not been around long enough to see photography before digital... The manufacturers may have marketed cropped sensors as a benefit, but they did not develop them for any other reason than technology and costs would have placed FF equipment out of reach to 95% of the photographic world.
As FF technology gets cheaper to develop and package, you are going to see APS-C relinquished to mirrorless pocket cameras unable to support the manufacturers really money makers - their lenses.
Lift Off: Bah... I knew all that "impressive high ISO performance" people talked about was just NR applied to the jpegs.
@Lift Off You need to review the test images again, you clearly do not know how to judge ISO performance.The ISO performance of the 6D is significantly better than its predecessors, quite comparable to the 5DmkIII, and better than the D600 - especially in jpg output, but easily in raw as well.
reach0775: dpreview will remain my No.1 source for camera reviews, but I'll really stop taking their conclusions seriously.The 6D has similar or better IQ than the mighty Mk.III, some VERY serious USPs (GPS, weight...) and it costs a 1.000EUR less!Hey, that's an awful lot of money! It's a shame they even compare those 2 within the same sentence.But taking it down because Mr. dpreviewer would have had different ideas where to save money is really outrageous arbitrariness.
@chlamchowder Actually you don't have to consider any models competition, at least not as far as DPR has proclaimed numerous times..Anyone remember the D7000's initial review, and the additional flack they received when rating the Pentax K5 higher. DPR came out both in forums and through the review site that the cameras (all cameras) are certainly reviewed in regard to other brands as far as consumer appeal - but - that was not factored in the items scoring...
Guess that has changed.
Joe Ogiba: I have many Apple products but my current phone is the Verizon HTC Droid DNA with 5" 1080p display (441ppi) , wireless charging and beats audio that sounds better than any mobile music player I have tried with my Etymotic Research ER-4P earbuds. Back in June 2010 when the iPhone 4 came out I thought it was ahead of Android phones but today I think they lost the advantage they had back then. The iPhone 5 is the best 4" phone but I think the 5" 1080p display will be the standard soon in premium smartphones like the coming Samsung Galaxy S4.
A significant portion of the iPhone popularity is the smaller size.No one is arguing that a larger screen isn't great, but when it results in a device that is almost larger than your hand it begins to impact the devices portability.If Apple increases the size of the iPhone it will negatively impact sales of existing users more than it benefits from the number of 'new' customers - Apple knows this.They do need to 'open' the device more however and simply bite-the-bullet in licensing to include other technologies and software like Adobe Flash and 3rd party apps integration with the OS.
tarnumf: So much about lenses sharpness, high ISO and bokeh - no, they don't really matter.
Well they do matter, but not in the context that many today believe. It is not important that those dynamics originate from the equipment, but that they can be influenced by the eye of the photographer.You need not be concerned with capturing any more detail than could be seen with your eye.Noise free ISO performance is to allow you to maintain shutter speed, not to take pictures in the dark.If you do not want something distracting in the background of a shot, don't position the subject in front of something distracting....and if people would output their images at a resolution they are meant to be viewed, by printing them or downsampling them for digital presentation, then there will never be a situation where someone else can zoom in beyond what was presented to them.. ;=)
Nothing wrong with the sharpness that shooting in raw would not have improved..Your just looking at a standard jpg from the camera (not tweaked/tuned to taste).
scrup: Is this the only current SLR to have one cross type AF point?
Hopefully the lack of AF info is to help 5d sales along and then when it is released there are at least more than one cross type sensors. If the T4 has it, i don't see why the 6D shouldn't.
Not even close.. Many dslr's do not have cross-type AF points, and not just Canon.
I suggest learning whether it even has any effect on your use before joining the flock of complainers. If the new AF system shows not to perform well it will be a flaw or miscalculation in design - not some inherent inferiority due to the number of points.
Chill out!! Pretty soon the price of Canon 6d will drop to $1700-$1800 and will become a good bargain. Canon 6d will be to Nikon 600d what Canon 60d is to Nikon d7000: both will sell well just except that 6d would have a lower price point. Canon 5dIII is already dropping in price and at $2700-$2800 it's also selling like hot cakes so no worries everything will settle down :).
But I love Canon marketing as I really feel that Canon is out to milk the customers and the customers are very interested in getting milked :). I am waiting for the day when Canon users would justify a $1500 dollar price differential between the current and the older model by saying the LCD upgrade alone is worth it :).
Kudos..A few people realize the primary difference between Canon and Nikon as far as pricing. Canon typically drops its msrp over the lifetime of the product - Nikon doesn't drop the msrp until a replacement has been announced. Early adopters pay a premium for just about anything in the world, but that is by choice.
Yes, for those who wish to wait you will be able to pick up a 6D for several hundreds less than it initially hits the market. (If that is the primary hindrance when it becomes available.)
Jahled: Nice camera Canon, let down only by it's AF system, a factor that I hated about the 5D2, and it's SD card slot. Other than that, it looks lovely. I might have considered getting one as a back up to my 1DX's, but these factors have killed it dead in the water, for me personally.
(Dan)LOL.. No, you don't need AF.I still own several cameras without AF, and easily manually focus my digital cameras as often as use autofocus. You do realize that cameras have been around longer without autofocus than with, right? You do know that many of the top-of-the-line 3rd party lenses (Zeiss, Schneider, Voigtlander) are all manual focus - how in the world are people using those things!
It was a comment in reality, however I did quantify the 'need' in regard to being an autofocus camera - therefore the expectation that it would autofocus.
There is nothing to defend actually. For years Canon has shown better autofocus speed and accuracy with many of its bodies versus say Nikon, and with fewer AF points. Actually it is a lost cause for other brands to continually dismiss accuracy and speed by acclaiming more points are better - but slower and less accurate..?
..and in not being a Canon user, why are you commenting on a new Canon AF system that hasn't even been seen yet?
marike6: I can't imagine why Canon would release a FF DSLR and cut corners on the viewfinder. Doesn't the 7D have a 100% viewfinder? I know the D600 has one, as does the D7000. Heck even the Pentax K-30 has a 100% Pentaprism viewfinder.
No... I asserted it does not make any difference whether it is 97% or 100%, and technically I stated that it did not make any difference to Canon who knows it does not effect the ability of the camera to do what it was designed to do...
To be honest, the greater impact would be a viewfinder that showed you more than what is being captured - opening up endless possibilities of missing something you thought was going to be in the image.. Having ~1/4" more of the scene around the border than you saw in the viewfinder hardly counts as a limitation or impacts your ability to capture the image.. Personally I would take the latter.It is just a marketing feature/comparison..
EOS M..and you can use your same lenses.. ;=)Cannot imagine how much smaller you want than that, and the ability to change lenses.
meshal: another disappointment cam from canon..
Based on what criteria exactly??
Renato Mozzarella: Very disappointed. Canon’s 5d3 greatest advantage (and maybe the only real one) over Nikons d800 was its new autofocus system. My expectation to have a more affordable Canon whit a 5d3 equivalent autofocus system where in vain. I’m seriously thinking about dong a upgrade on the Nikon side. I really don’t think that the 6d’s DR and AF will be any better than the d600.
@JohnMatrixThere are four Rebels still in Canon's lineup, three of which are under the T4i, so no the entry level Rebel/s do not have all cross-type AF points. The T4i would be the top model in the Rebel tier, and for that you get a few extra features like the 9-point AF system from ~5-years ago (40D fyi).
Canon has proven over the years that you don't need more AF points, nor all of them cross-type, for the AF system to be effective. Some people may rely on the AF system to the extent that they cannot even hope to get a properly focused shot unless the camera can literally do it by itself - for the rest of us you simply use the instrument to its greatest strengths and your creativity.
VivaLasVegas: Holy smokes........6D is made in JAPAN, sweeeeet, I love sushi. FYI, D600 is made in Thailand for maximum high product output(good luck in QC), and maximum profit.
The "new" 20mp sensor is essentially an evolution of the best APS-C sensor Canon has produced in the digital age (the 8mp sensor found in the 20D, 30D) simply upscaled to 35mm format. If it does indeed take advantage of the 8mp optimal photosite size and pitch, factoring in newer technological advancements in design and analog/digital processing, we may see the best 35mm sensor Canon has ever produced under the 1D series.
For many that will be the primary criteria they evaluate this or any camera on - image quality, regardless of bells&whistles. (and I don't mean the kind of image quality that can only be measured at one ISO setting under laboratory conditions, I mean real world every day field relevant image quality..)
AP7: Canon 6D compares well with Nikon D3200, both has 11-point AF system and both are entry level camera.
Nikon D3200 is lighter, and may have better low light and DR performance (even though it has APS-C sensor). D3200 also has built in flash and flash sync 1t 1/200 sec (vs no flash and 1/180 sec for Canon).
Canon 6D has no other advantage than DOF as a travel camera.
The cross-points of an AF system are for tracking, they are not for focusing on subjects away from the center of the frame. You want something on the right, left, top, bottom of the frame to be in focus instead of the center - move the AF point over there and press the shutter!
wetsleet: It seems a heavy price to pay for what, a smidge of shallower DOF, on the occasions when it is even wanted. For that you pay extra for the camera, you pay in spades for the lenses, and it's too darn heavy to want to carry all day.
So at this budget I just don't get it. You're trying to save a few hundred on a body which will cost you thousands extra in lenses.
Maybe if they would just bring out a really fast portrait lens for APS-C to satisfy that all important shallow DOF for when it actually counts. Actually a standard 50mm f1.8 probably fits the bill, almost.
It makes me wonder, how did the term "full frame" ever gain acceptance, with its self-appointed insinuation that there is something innately correct or complete about the format coupled with the implication that smaller formats are a sub-standard compromise.
The D800 begins to suffer from diffraction at around f/8 yes.. Check Nikon's information..They posted a great users guide on how to maximize the resolution capabilities of the D800, where in the same guide they reference the noticeable diffraction threshold of its high mp sensor.
Technically you do not even need autofocus (believe it or not) but as it is an autofocus capable camera it really only needs to do one thing - autofocus on the subject behind the AF point, even if there is only one point available.
It is obvious that Canon has targeted this camera towards the enthusiast, a tier that is interested in learning about photography and doing so on a traditional format. They are not marketing this to the sector who is looking for the latest camera to do everything for them.
BTW, this is NOT the same AF system as the 9-point single cross-type 5DmkII. Even if it was though, the general AF issues with the 5DmkII had to do with accurate focus in lower light, NOT because it only had 9 AF points... I personally cannot attribute a single missed shot to the AF system in my 5DmkII, and that is over years of shooting.
Peter CS: Way too little, too late! Would have bought the 5dMarkIII at up to $3200. Now instead the D800! Fortunately, have both Nikon and Canon glass. Too bad that Canon has missed the boat for the second time this year...
...all I read is you want more mp.
sandy b: Look to the right at the Top cameras chart.
What is your point??By your assertion (clicks equal superiority) then the 5DmkIII was a total success because months after the D800 and 5DmkIII were announced the D800 dropped off that chart completely - while the mkIII was still listed up to the recent announcements (DPR only lists the top ten).
VivaLasVegas: As a long time Nikon user, this is a traumatic day for me. The newly released D600 can ONLY focus -1EV in low light, that is a full TWO stop behind 6D, WTF. To add salt into injury, they've also regurgitated the flawed D7000 AF into the new D600.
As for (Vegas).. Dude, if you are the type of 'photographer' that looks to jump ship every time a new body comes along perhaps you need to explore another hobby - photography is obviously not what you should be spending your time or money in.
I can guarantee you that either the 6D or D600 is exponentially more capable than your ability to use them...