Valiant Thor: Does anyone have an opinion regarding this camera compared to the recently announced (but not yet released) Nikon DL18-50 F/1.8-2.8 Compact? Right about the same price. Thanks.
Physical size does matter, with a larger sensor, much better low light, however fast lenses can also help. I would still go with the larger sensor for more smoother looking images. Larger pixel pitch also is better for low light. So 16MP can be better than 20MP small sensor in low light. (Why the Nikon D4 is better at low light than D810 for example for cleaner images at 6400 iso). Or why m43 should be better than 1 sensors, however the glass optic quality does make a big difference as well. Faster lenses can narrow the difference in low light conditions though. As the Panasonic GX85 can change to faster lenses (instead of kit lens), it would be superior in low light when used. DL might win for compact size with compact fixed lens at similar focal lengths chosen.
dopravopat: I suggest you display four settings in the image comparison tool, ISO 100, 1/160 s, +5 EV
upper left: Canon EOS 80D, upper right: Nikon D7200lower left: Canon EOS 70D, lower right: Nikon D7100
The images speak for themselves.
Set all 4 cameras to push +3 and the difference is much less, however 70D noticeable worse. At 100 iso and +3 push, small difference between 80D, D7200 and D7100. How many of us are pushing files past +3 regularly. Worth mentioning, as how important is pushing it further except the odd file that was exposed too far off.The difference is indeed noticeable at +4 and +5 exposure push for noise in 80D, 70D or lines in D7100 sensor show. Unless going to 100 iso and pushing +5 is used to expand Dynamic range and hold bright highlights as dpreview suggests in a bright contrasty scene for example on the Canon 80D, now possible compared to 70D which was far worse.
Frank in Bridgewater: Finally Canon appears to get that its historic sensors have lagged current technology. Now just bring it to the professional APS line, the 7DII successor, to compete with the Nikon D500.
I would agree that Canon will likely put this sensor into the new 7D3. Possibly a few other surprises as well to compete against D500. Put a rotating screen on 7D3 and a lot more video DSLR users would buy a 7D3, as well as high speed photo shooters, and keep both CF and SD like current 7D2. Will Canon put 4K in the next 7D3, who knows? Maybe, if price matches D500. They do not want to loose sales to 5D3 or higher end models. Maybe 5D4 will have 4K first?
Jonathan F/2: The D7200 is even more impressive. At this rate of improvement, the D500 should be a DR and high ISO beast next to Canon and the rest of the APS-C competition. Fuji being a close 2nd place. No doubt in the mirrorless arena Fuji is top dog for APS-C!
For run and gun video like fast moving pace wedding and event video having phase detect on sensor is far better than contrast detect alone. Manual focusing has its pros and cons, however both the 70D and 80D and 7D2 are built for video in motion where people are moving quickly such as dancing at the reception. Sony is also, with A77ii and also FF A7 series mirrorless. D7200 while it has decent HD video, probably is not the first choice of a serious part time videographer using DSLR on a budget. 80D and 70D would be in apsc and for FF, lots of pros like Canon 5D3 or Sony A7 mirrorless. Nikon cameras chosen for serious pro video are D810 or D750 and D500 because of video features and video quality. D7200 can do video, great for hobbyists and advanced consumers, but not usually first choice among serious users, as other cameras offer a lot more video features in camera, like the ones I mention. D7200 excels in apsc image quality and DR for photos, although manual focus video is possible.
The dual pixel liveview full time AF smokes the contrast detect liveview of D7200 if smooth video focusing is your thing. If only photos, not video, are your thing the D7200 rocks. For being quite good in both photo and video, 80D presents a compelling argument to excel at both in single camera body. In most types of general uses and with fast lenses 80D will be very good.Canon's new 18-135mm lens is far better than previous lens with better glass design optics inside and likely outperforms Nikons 18-140mm lens for sharpness also useful for video or stills in moderate walkaround zoom.
Mike FL: This $499 Pana is more or less to compete with $299 Oly weather sealed 12-50mm.
The good thing about Olympus is that newer IBIS is better than OIS in this kind of zoom range.
It is your call/money.
If you have the Panasonic GX8 most people owning one would pick a Pany 12-60mm with its power OIS and (Dual IS in GX8), over an Olympus 12-50mm, regardless of what the Oly lens has to offer. Using a Native lens would be better, and the Pany lens specs here are very good with three aspherical lenses and an ED.
Jefftan: why not buy 14-140mm, similar weight and similar size, 10x zoom
At 12 wide end equivalent to 24mm as opposed to 14 wide is equivalent to 28mm in FF. So 12-60mm is equivalent to 24-120mm which is a useful range and for most work this would be enough for regular use. The 12 at wide end is far more useful for landscapes or cityscapes compared to 14.
DualSystemGuy: 80D Body only: $1199
7D MKII body, free printer, free memory card, free bag, $1199 @ B&H
The full time live autofocus of 7D II or 80D/70D make these apsc cameras ideal for videographers who would want that function, and this type of sensor dual phase detect on sensor is missing from the full frame cameras so far. Use some fast lenses like F1.8 or F2.8 constant zooms and the video will be good enough for low light. Semi pros and part time videographers might select a camera like this over FF on a budget. Add a LED light on top and external mike with the zoom attachment and this is a very useful camera for video. Full time pros need 2 cameras because they would need one for backup and may pick the FF 5D3 and maybe camera like this 80D for second camera or this as main with a rebel as backup if part timers on a budget.
Good point on AF however 80D is not that far behind and much better than 70D.7D II is 65 AF points while 80D is 45 AF points. In regards to slow mo, using 1080 60P from 80D it would be simple to change speed in video editing software to half speed slo motion by setting 60P to playback at 30P in Premiere or Vegas Pro or Final Cut and render video. Having just checked the video specs of 7DII on dpreview most of the high end video setting options are the same in both it seems now. Although not seeing the 80D video menu shown, but the specs in article match with 7D II for ALL-I and IPB in MP4 or MOV and highest at 1080 60P for MP4. 80D also has mini HDMI out so should be able to go out to an external HD recorder. The article mentions nothing about absence of zebras or focus peaking for 80D or are you quoting the 70D instead, or have another written source for this info.The 7D II has the better pro body and also CF card slot plus SD which many may value. I like CF myself..
80D - 24 MP7D II - 20 MP
80D - fully articulating screen useful for video7D II - no tilt screen
80D has better features in above 2 areas. Important to video shooters and 24MP resolution is higher for photo. Also 1080 60P for video in Full HD. Also a new 18-135mm lens of premium quality USM Nano for video/photo and power zoom adapter great for video. Will this lens and power zoom adapter work on 7D II? Possibly.
Right now 80D looks better with 3 better spec features, 24 MP, 1080 60P and rotating touch screen. (Dual SD would have been nice to see or CF slot with SD, however, not there.)
7D II has high fps. 80D has better video features. Maybe we will see a few of this new tech specs in 7D III.
mpgxsvcd: Is Canon seriously bragging about finally putting 1080p @ 60 FPS video in their cameras in 2016?
I get it this camera meets the needs of most users. The problem is that it costs $1200 without a lens and $1800 with a “kit” lens. That is a very tough sell when every other manufacturer offers so much more for so much less.
Did not that kit lens 18-135mm cost a lot less when offered with the 70D or am I wrong? Seems price went up on Canon 18-135mm STM which is now $600 more over the body price.
Okay, I went back and read the full article. The new 18-135mm lens is updated with many improved features, so much better than first generation and now a premium lens.
T3: For the average consumer, an A6300 for $1K is a better buy, not just for the money but also for the portability. I take my A6000 everywhere with me. Back when I was only using Canon DSLRs, I rarely carried them with me unless I was intent on doing some shooting. I think that's the big factor: which camera are you most likely to grab when you're heading out the door. I still have a trusty old Canon 60D (I've owned the 10D, 20D, 40D, and 60D). But I also have an A6000. I have found that 90% of the time, I am choosing the A6000 over the 60D when I go out. Both are capable of taking great pictures. I just like the greater portability, smaller size, and features of the A6000. I no longer see the point of carrying around heavier, bulkier DSLR gear when something like an A6000/63000 does just as well or better, with face/eye detection AF and a WYSIWYG exposure-previewing viewfinder. Will I be buying an 80D? A few years ago, I would have been a loyal, returning Canon DSLR buyer. Not anymore.
A6300 is a small consumer body for enthusiasts mainly. Professionals and semi-pros using 80D for video will prefer the 80D body. Enthusiasts wanting a serious camera for long zoom lenses with many pro features would also give 80D a look against competition of D7200 and A77ii from Nikon and Sony. For smaller bodies there are still the Rebel line.
photomedium: What a waste of space. Can these small sensor p&S on life support die off already? :)
The problem becomes when some of my clients send me their smart phone photos, and ask me to sharpen the images or fix them ("can you put these more in focus" since they do not know what is wrong, as it looked good on the phone. For example photos from a wedding event which friends send their phone photos, or facebook images. Very soft low light photos cannot be fixed when the blur is too great. Time to move up to a better camera, I tell them, or at least use the phone flash if it has one. People who own both a real dedicated camera and a phone know the difference. Why P&S cameras mostly disappeared, not sure why, but m43 or higher replaced them for more serious enthusiasts/hobbyists. My Nikon S8100 1/2 sensor with long zoom is significantly better than most phones.
smart phone cameras lower general consumers expectations of what is acceptable for photos which should be called snapshots like in old days. P&S at least have better lenses than tiny lenses of smart phones. Having seen images off the latest iphone6s I was not impressed, not much better than the iphone5 images. Only in very good lighting the images were getting closer to 1/2 inch P&S sensors. In poor light, very grainy still and blurry. Not sure why consumers like smart phone images, except look great on a 4 inch screen I guess and fast upload.
arhmatic: This is serious video improvement over the previous 16mp x-trans! Great Fuji. Pleasantly surprised how it stands against Sony or Panasonic.
Now if they can only deliver the camera as promised, on time...
Sony and Panasonic video still looks much better. Even Canon video. Nice to see Fuji getting better though.
straylightrun: It's a real shame Sony didn't include IBIS. Sony's real focus is on their FF system, not APS-C anymore.
That is why it would be nice to put all this new tech with highest AF points for tracking and image stabilization in a new version A77 III apsc body with good A mount lenses. Ideal form factor for all day shooting for serious shooters. (without the premium A7R body cost and high cost lenses of Sony FF). Will it come to be? Stores in my area prefer to promote A7 series and have very little A77ii stock at any time. Margins are likely better in A7 and Sony FF E glass.
dr and snr: Great sensor, awesome cutting-edge tech - shame it's in such a rubbish unintuitive user-unfriendly body!
They should put this sensor and AF into a new A77 III body. Or maybe they are already working on that - TBA.
Adrian Van: Can Sony please put this system into the next version of the Sony A77ii apsc SLT. I like a bit larger body for doing serious work, not the small A6300 mirrorless which looks more for semi-pro / consumer user. Price the new A77 mark 3, a bit more if you like.
I can only guess maybe not, as they would probably want to protect the A7 series by not promoting the A77ii as much as the A7 line is being promoted. The camera stores in my area seem to do that - promote Sony FF A7. (Much like Nikon promoting mostly FF to serious photographers, except for the D500.) Just wish they would add some of the new features to next version of A77ii . XAVC is already in A77ii. It would be ideal, to make A77 mark 3 even better than mark 2, plus even better iso!
North American serious photographers still like the SLR or SLT form factor. So why not upgrade with new latest tech in SLT A mount apsc line with this sensor and AF system. Done right could rival a D500 with the right body.
I would love an A77 III (form factor) within the year for my A mount lenses. With AF system like A6300 maybe it does not need the mirror anymore which would be better for higher iso than previously with SLT as the mirror was holding back some light. Just wondering if Sony will make one like that for A mount, instead of just E mount.
Can Sony please put this system into the next version of the Sony A77ii apsc SLT. I like a bit larger body for doing serious work, not the small A6300 mirrorless which looks more for semi-pro / consumer user. Price the new A77 mark 3, a bit more if you like.
Beautiful detail! How was the 1000 mm reached on A77ii. Which lens and brand and did you use 2x teleconverter and which brand. I am looking at getting the same body, and also looking at some lenses. Any recommendations are appreciated.