jkoch2: If one compares the 2014 operating profits, relative to sales, of the imaging segments of Canon (14.5%), Nikon (4.8%), Sony (11.3%), Oly (-8.3), or Fuji (6.3%), Canon is still king of the shrinking hill. Canon can't make the world buy more cameras, but it will stay in business so long as it outperforms its competitors where it counts. If not the smartest camera company, then certainly the least dumb. Canon's edamame-counters are doing something right!
Since Canon have done little other than rehash old sensors and cameras for the last 5 years, it is little surprise their profits are higher. They were not hit by the Tsunami either. But they rely heavily on brand recognition and legacy to ensure people buy their products.
Also, Sony and Canon probably don't factor the cost of sensor fab into the imaging division. Nikon, who have no sensor fab, have to account for sensor costs since it is a supplied part. In Sony, it is a separate part of the business. Comparing profit can be very misleading.
Every company that relied on branding without making improvements has declined, sooner or later, relative to the competition. You can fool all the people some of the time....
57even: This is not altogether surprising - the market has matured after soaring increases in sales from the early 2000s. The market levelled out after the recession in 2008/9 and started declining.
Yes, phones have taken over from point and shoots, but they were mostly outsourced anyway. Most camera makers probably earn more selling camera modules to phone companies.
The decline in high-end sales is a reflection of the lack of real improvement in successive models. High replacement rates were previously driven by sensor improvements, but that strategy has now switched to packaging - trad SLR vs CSC, mod vs retro, fixed lens vs interchangeable, big vs small. stills vs. video.
Cameras are now like cars - all good enough that brand identity, features and styling matter more than actual physics or image quality. Most will swear blind that 'their' camera is better whatever testing reveals, and most folk are happy with an iPhone. Who cares about sensor quality? (OK I do, but most don't)
I didn't say people cared about DxO. I said the improvements were enormous - enough for every review to comment on them.
I did define 'much better'. Much less noise, 50% or more increase in megapixels, higher max ISO, higher tonal and dynamic range. DxO just demonstrates this.
If you think people are happy with 'good enough' when something better comes out, check sales of iPhone 6.
"How so? People bought the cameras they needed to do the things they need to do. By your logic, everyone should be pony'ing up for a PhaseOne."
People stay in the price bracket they can afford, whether its a D3000 or a 5Dmk3.
But within each bracket improvements were huge from model to model a decade ago. Check out DxOMark charts for the Nikon D70, D90, D7000 and D7100. 6 - 12 - 16 - 24 MP. Huge change in SNR, DR, ISO - but the last jump was far less significant than the first. The technology matured.
People get the best they can afford, not the best there is. They live with restrictions because they have to. If something comes along 3-4 years later that is the same price but much better, there is a good reason to upgrade. If the difference is marginal, there is no incentive.
Fact is each upgrade is no longer the major money-spinner it once was.
This is not altogether surprising - the market has matured after soaring increases in sales from the early 2000s. The market levelled out after the recession in 2008/9 and started declining.
No surprises here, surely? Compact small-sensor digicams were bread and butter to all these companies. Since most of them don't make phones (except Sony and Samsung) this chart merely reflects the loss of that market.
I suspect there is a lot more margin on high end products. The XT1 is Fuji's best seller, and the A7 is even more expensive. The EM5 wasn't cheap either. Add lenses and the CSC business model is fairly clear.
Of camera makers, only Fuji and Sony maintained overall market share (which is a good result considering) and actually increase CSC market share (which for Fuji meant coming from nowhere in 3 years).
I can't see Apple getting into dedicated cameras, but I reckon Samsung is a potential threat to all the established players, simply because of their phone market customer base and huge resources. Integrating cameras and phone/tablet function is something they are uniquely placed to do. What is the most logical upgrade path for a Galaxy phone owner?
Judging from all the complaints and dumb comments, this is going to be an excellent lens :-)
The NX1 is looking seriously competitive! And that zoom lens is pretty impressive.
helltormentor: @ Barney Britton
Is that true that the X-TRANS sensor becomes ISOless from 400 on? (By ISOless, I mean there is no noise penalty if we increase exposure in post rather than increasing sensitivity in camera while shooting).
Not sure about that...
Clearly implies cut off at ISO 1600 - almost on the button.
Very nice Barney, quite funny too. Did you actually give up on the 56mm AF or was it just simpler to work manually? I know that modelling lights are not usually all that bright.
From experiment and some data from Bill Claff it appears to be ISOless from around 1600 ISO.
HG South Africa: With regards to section 13 of this review on 'real world' DR, Simon Joinson of DPR says that the lens has no effect on DR. The 7Dii was paired with an EF 50mm f/1.4 and the D7000 was paired with Nikkor 18-35mm f/3.5-4.5G ED.All over the web you will find tests that show how lens contrast rendering can affect the DR in files - the Leica Forum has an extensive segment.At the focal lengths of these lenses and considering the different crop factors, adjustments would have had to be made to get similar rendering in the side-by-side comparison windows.In section 11, when comparing again to the D7000, where the Nikon is now mounted to a Nikkor 50mm lens, their is no difference under the 2 different light settings (in spite of the 7Dii not being perfectly focussed in this test).
Go see Tony Northrup's review of the 7Dii sensor and IQ on Youtube.I use this camera with L glass and the genuine 'real world' results are fantastic. Even EFS lenses such as the 15-85 give wonderful tonal results.
It was the photos that never got taken that were the problem... ;)
JoEick: Rishi, you need to stop being defensive and actually read what is being criticized. Everyone knows Sony exmor sensors have better low ISO DR. We knew this years before this article tried making it into something groundbreaking.
People (including myself) are taking offense to those who try to overstate the effectiveness in being able to get a shot or not, based on the low ISO DR. It's just pushing people to let their gear dictate everything for them, without any thought or skill required by the photographer.
Extra DR is nice and never hurts (except in photographer skills), but it's not really the feature that is making photos possible that were previously not possible with some basic photography skills in merging exposures.
I am aware that this is DPR, a gear praising website, where suggesting features are not needed or are overstated, is like breaking all the 10 commandments in one shot. Photographer skills are going backwards, while tech marches forwards. :(
"only if you're on glue - the lack of detail and resolution from the D7000 is staggering."
What is also staggering is your utterly transparent and over the top reaction to criticism of your pet camera.
JEROME NOLAS: A second class sensor for 1,799.00?
Are you saying popularity is a guarantee of quality?
xval: Well, it's obvious that Canon is not the "King of the Hill" anymore. DR is disappointing. But how important is it? In some cases it's critical, in most cases it's nice to have. In any case there is no way to reproduce it on monitor or paper. So people use phoshopping to emphasis shadow details which results in "pictures". Far from realistic photo. Nevertheless most are happy with HDR-looking something. ;) And even call it photography.
When DR doesn't matter much everything else becomes more important. That's where 7d2 excels. For me video with autofocus + uncompressed video out actually was one of the main reasons to upgrade. I need it. 7d + 7d2 + 2x (dirt cheap EFS 24mm lens) make a good setup for stereo photography, something I need too.
You don't need HDR to see the banding and noise in the shadows. Just try using a bit of dodge and burn.
Most 'realistic' photographs are a long way from the bland default JPEGs that come from the camera. If some people don't know how to post process, then you get some awful results, but that does not invalidate the need for improved DR.
We can finally get somewhere close to film nowadays. Unless you own a Canon of course, in which case you still can't.
Hi Rishi, I agree and thanks for the review.
Such 'real life' information is vital for newcomers. Not that I am one, but it's hard to demonstrate to people what all the data means in practice.
Now I can link to your review. Very useful. Thanks.
@ Jo Eick
"It's just pushing people to let their gear dictate everything for them, without any thought or skill required by the photographer."
I assume you never do any post processing then. If you did you might understand why losing three stops of dynamic range is a serious problem for anyone who shoots 'real life' scenes.
And no, I don't post process because I got the exposure 'wrong'. I post process because default tone curves in the camera are not optimal for anything much more than snapshots.
I suppose the amount of time and trouble that the great printers used to go through to extract the maximum tonal quality from a negative was the result of the incompetence of people like Henri Cartier-Bresson?
DaddyG: Great review - the degree to which you highlight the 7D's poor dynamic range is long overdue. You do a great job on explaining why this is so important.
This level of negative publicity is long overdue, and can only be good for us locked into the Canon system. Surely Canon must concentrate on improving its sensor technology.
However, it is odd that you do not list it as a 'Con'. Because, for me & many, it is this camera's greatest disappointment.
What this proves is that most consumers are very conservative and not very discriminating if the 'brand' has good publicity.
But once disillusionment sets in, this can turn bad very quickly indeed. It may take a few years for it to sink in, and a lot of reluctance to accept - but that just makes the rush to dump a brand worse when it happens. Its a bit like a stock market crash.
(unknown member): Rating cameras these days in general is overrated!
They're all quite good!
Given that 'good' is relative, I disagree. There is no point in having ratings like Excellent, very good and good and nothing else. It should be Good, Average, Poor by the standards of other current cameras.
The sensor in this Canon is poor. The DR is no better than a 1" Panasonic sensor. That really isn't very clever.
57even: Samsung still have an issue with brand recognition in the West as a serious camera brand. Hi-tech gadgets like smartphones and TVs are not generally equated with 'serious' technology like cameras.
This is a shame because this camera really deserves a serious look, and so do the lenses. It also makes me wonder where Nikon and Canon would be in terms of sales now if you negated the draw of brand recognition.
However, it proves (if it needed proving) that DSLRs are rapidly running out of anything new to offer in the face of technological progress on mirrorless cameras. Every announcement in the last 3 years has been an incremental upgrade, most of which fixed bugs that should not have existed.
I am in a holding pattern, but the traditional camera companies risk going to the wall if they don't pony up a response. Maybe not immediately, but soon enough.
The D800 is not exactly new, it has already been replaced. The 7Dii was a very long time coming, and there was no technical reason for the buffer to be so small on the previous camera. Neither of these cameras are a breakthrough in any respect. Moreover, at 29MP the Samsung is not far off the resolution of the D800.
I cannot, in all honesty, think of a reason why I would choose the 7D over the NX1. Previous Samsung cameras didn't interest me at all, but this one is completely different.
Samsung still have an issue with brand recognition in the West as a serious camera brand. Hi-tech gadgets like smartphones and TVs are not generally equated with 'serious' technology like cameras.