zodiacfml: another high quality article from you guys.
a bit off topic but from my perspective noise is becoming less of an issue these days especially with the CMOS sensors.
from these noise control developments, I discovered that i place more value now on highlight behavior than noise. viewing an image on an excellent but small screen such as smartphone or tablet, noise is not much of problem. in short, I appreciate the highlight handling of CCD cameras regardless of screen size or sensor format.
i hope you could also look into this as I believe there is a difference between CCD and CMOS regarding this aspect. i'm sure Leica fans would love to read such an article.
rfsIII you get it perfectly. A true photographer. Helps us please! Make something worth buying.
This looks the part; but no good video. Pretty though.
l_d_allan: Well, they've been saying "in three years" for about three years now.
It may be like Linux fanboys predicting that the year of Linux will be "real soon now" ... like they've been hoping for 15+ years (before the dot-com implosion).
But I do think that mirror-less is pushing CaNikon to stay ahead (but Nikon seems more intent on keeping the DSLR relevant).
Update: At this time the fabulous Debian 8 (Jessie) has gone stable. You do not need upgrade to "testing" release and away from included on-line security upgrades and rock solid stability of the foundation. You can simply install a "backport" when you absolutely need some REQUIRED functionality from a newer version of a top level application. Thus your core stays solid and your newer app is flitted to that! Anything else is not fully cooking and keep in mind then your programs dynamically upgrade every day to those levels.
1. Really nontechnical folks... get a helping friend.
2. New users might better try Linux Mint with Mate first and make sure you computer spec is enough.
3. When you know you want this stuff then you want Debian stable; because you can easily make it better than Mint. There is a new **LIVE** Debian (get the MATE) stable ISO download (put properly on USB stick and "boot" it) you can trial. WITHOUT actually installing anything.
AksCT: Cost of Digital: Myth(Due to character restriction, I have split it in 3 parts)
"if you think you need 2k dollar computer"
It's a Mac thing. LOL.
learn Debian stable. Try out Deb 8 (Jessie) S T A B L E. You can optionally get a LIVE (now official "MATE" desktop version) ISO and just trial run (optional install) that from a USB stick. Just know that Debian is a customizable thing. Not auto fluff. New users might start with Mint for a year. The powers that be have put (install only) roadblocks (mainly weird hardware) in your way and YOU have to want it and persist. The rewards are huge *and* you do not have to run one OS or another. You can run both or all of them in MAY different ways. Don't miss the advantages of each of them. It's just Deb stable rules them all. Really. No that is not just opinion. It just takes a year of regular use to see.
"Consequently, caring about dynamic range is to care about noise."
Very well said. plus (more) DR is a better to have and not need it type thing; because many times we do! Some times you can "dance"(around the IQ issues). Sometimes you can't.
Before someone says it... yes the person and composition matters most; but it's both including the camera (benefits) also.
Neodp: My comment is not made to be politically correct. This article is very good information and the following is just my thoughts on it.
Disclaimer: I have not super-analyzed every detail and possible meaning about the authors intent due to time.
The minor negative I see here is the inference that under-performing sensors (USUALLY smaller) should be "good enough". Mostly the problem I see is this all could be taken to infer a step backwards, toward the marketing propaganda that sensors are "so expensive" and hand-made to manufacture; that we need to abide high prices and lower our expectations of quality and overall usable value.
What do the buyers have to do to swing the balance away from non-photographic marketing monkey (executive) rule?
...No. This is 2015. The manufacturers need to start doing their jobs. Us buyers need to stop buying until they do. It's as simple as that. The GAS is killing us!
I respectful suggest that we all take stock about whether that new camera "smell" is worth it. These things make fabulous new toys and with hour upon hours of fiddling. What is the point of it all?
Where is the better camera? The real benefits and in a value BALANCE. to many of you think balance means required handicap and THAT is where the future of camera lay. Doing the so called "impossible".
What we are seeing now is MOSTLY the same stuff simply rehashed. Marketing goals rule and that is the problem.
My comment is not made to be politically correct. This article is very good information and the following is just my thoughts on it.
I haven't seen Windows or OS-X on my computers for YEARS. You poor B.
linuxmint.com (use Mate) is where you start; because it's all done. After 6 months or a year of heavy use and before you get a new release of Mint then install Debian STABLE (Plus:Stablet has already installable backports of the newest apps for "that". The core system stays solid and RELEASE upgrades (about every two years) to new *STABLE* Debian (having stable auto security) also just WORKS perfectly. Debian sucks to install and make it like you want it THE FIRST TIME. Then you see why. It becomes easy to install. Are you technical? If not then get someone who can install it and you're done. Its all about what you choose.
gusmahler: Disagree with the analysis of the 50 mm lens. It's a great purchase for crop cameras. On Nikon it's the equivalent of 75 mm. On Canon, it's equivalent to 80 mm. Both are decent portrait focal lengths. IOW, 50 mm is a great portrait lens for crop cameras that is still usable as a walkaround lens for a FF camera.
The "will I upgrade to FF" question really comes into play at 35mm, though. Especially with Nikon. Because Nikon makes two 35 mm lenses, an inexpensive ($200), but crop-only lens. And a $500 lens that can be used on both crop and FF bodies.
Yeah, but that's muddied with alternative Prime 50mm and 135mm being much faster (f/2.0 or f/1.8 or better), lighter, potentially cheaper, promoting better techniques and so his point still has merit. Even if not in all cases.
AM4L: Really in at least terms of the Nikon side of things the biggest true upgrades you get with FX are the AF System and access to a vast collection of glass made for that format. That and advances in noise suppression are what makes it an upgrade. That said if they made DX versions of the FX cameras and accompanying glass you would have a chance at superior IQ.
But before anyone gets an upgrade, a lot of people will benefit more from upgrading their skills rather than their camera. Most of these cameras are not really limiting what people can accomplish now days.
Yes skills. No cameras aren't all that now.
Yours is a refreshing perspective. Thank you. You are right. Do not upgrade by surprise. Decide each component BEFORE we buy.
Don't buy to learn. Learn then buy.
SmilerGrogan: The major issue right now in photography is not lenses or sensor sizes or any of that. It's how do we get the amazing photos we take with our cameras intelligently processed and uploaded onto the internet with the same speed that we can do it with our photographically inferior cell phones. The other big question: where is still photography going? Will it continue on a parallel but separate track with moving video images or will the two converge in some way?
Not it's not (respectfully). As the crime of social media becomes increasingly apparent ; that is not what photography is all about. Especially quality. Simply use a fast card reader with nothing else to do.
For those so quick to say, those like me want to much: The issue is color sensitivity and highlight details DR. not just DR. Along with better looking color capability. Not just low noise. Even the high ISO sensors really aren't that wonderful at 3200+. Keeping ISO toward base is much better. This is best done with really fast lenses. The lens is the first quality consideration (like no CA and excellent contrast).
Your video question is a great one. Mirrorless (tomorrows improved) APS-C must go.
Neodp: Great points. Do or do not do full frame.
Contrary is 50mm AF-S prime. Good on APS-C (DX for example) and while it might not be the best portrait lens it's great and can still be a value purchase. The "disadvantage" of prime lens moving/"zooming" with your feet has many advantages that outweigh it... in the context of total value and photographic benefits. It wins in Stops of light comparatively.
As much as I would like a much smaller version of full frame (and it CAN be done) the value is currently found in APS-C, in the great balance.
Also, film cameras tend to be "full-frame" and film does better in the specific *HIGHLIGHT* DR details than digital. Also with pleasing colors, per the film selected. Therefore, there's often a full-frame and APS-C mixture, due to film cams. Even with no full frame digital.
If only smaller Nikon bodies had the motor drive (also very possible today) then AF lenses would be optimal in all ways, even manually pulling focus for less video sounds.
The 50mm (portrait angle on DX) being for those like me who take mostly people pictures. The 35mm AF-s otherwise and that's when looking for one prime (nearly) do all lens, for max value and less to carry.
All that said, a fixed camera to fit the bill would be fine and better optimized potentially; but "they" will not make that. Not with the total benefits balance; that I'd like.
Great points. Do or do not do full frame.
Neodp: So it's a like Stop less in background blur isolation than a kit lens on a crop DSLR. Including worse Bokeh quality. Not with light; but in terms of DOF eqiv, and it's huge. That's not good. Not at the price.
They should NOT have listened to novices as to lusting for ZOOM X-FACTOR and just made a better camera. They should have capped the focal at 100mm (eqiv angle) and went the other way! Heck, they should have done 27-100mm on MFT. Made that a f/2.8 CONSTANT lens (built-in, so very IQ optimized optimized) and then you'd have something. Think about it. There's your do all camera. Mid small size, affordable price. Leica F2.8 27-100mm HELLO! They could even sell "X-FACTOR" extenders to the silly crowd.
But they wouldn't make that.
Your color sensitivity then your highlight range (not just total) and finally noise in real world lighting make small sensors (1" being still on the small performace side) craptasitc. Going small by smaller sensors is NOT the way to IQ. "X-factor ultra zooms", like that stink. If it were under $80 and you don't need image quality but in the bright sun, then fine. Because VALUE (price) does matter. It's way over priced and now you know why. Gold platting the darn thing doesn't count. It's a camera and cameras gather light more or less craptasically.
Neodp: You are fouling up when rating "ultra-zoom" or extreme telephoto as a priority if you are getting there with a tiny sensor.
It's cheap to make, keeping the entire camera more carrable. Very poor sensor results at these minisucle sizes.
1. Yes low light will suffer; but not only that. The telephoto you buy these cameras for tend to be extremely small aputrures AT TELEPHOTO. That's bad plus bad. So you see to late; that only wide angle and the brightest light (or ugly forward flash only), and that's the opposite of ("X-factor!") tele and real world light situations. Bad IQ (image qaulity) resutls. It's a low ISO sunlight camera only.
2. But! It's not just NOISE! Note the highlight range and not just the total dynamic range. It stinks. This is a problem with digital and much worse in these cameras. AKA to much all whited-out sections of your pictures and with no hightlight details. Just compare samples for highlight details.
3. Mostly: It's very poor color acuracy/range & poor JPEGs.
But that's NOT a cry for more over priced cameras. It's a a reason to pass on over-pri ced cameras, so the prices will get out of insane teritory. Buyer determined.
You are fouling up when rating "ultra-zoom" or extreme telephoto as a priority if you are getting there with a tiny sensor.
What? Nikon quality control issues?
Control issues indeed. keep you money UNTIL manufactues put it ALL together. Else missing benefits will not stop.
I'm getting tired of you Nikon. I conceed, this may be a decent camera; but I'm just sick to death of the BS.
1. Why NOT a focus motor for (old) AFl lenses in this size? You know you can. You just don't want to hear noises in videos. You known, one could choose to focus vidoe manually to prebent this, if we were ALLOWED. The 7100 (w/motor) is WAY to big.
You readers really think a motor couln't be fitted? Really?
2. Is amperture contro still borked in video? Duh....
3. Nikon mirorless (system) APS-C?????? You know an F-mount adapter would solve it!