nyer82: I'm confused about this: "There is no real innovation to be found in the camera department." But then the same paragraph mentions a few of those innovations.
Also unmentioned is the addition of phase detection AF. Isn't that usually only found in DSLRs? This seems like it would be a pretty big improvement to me, how it works in practice of course remains to be seen. And in another article there are also claims the sensor size is larger (by how much no clue).
Anyway,DP- you guys didn't do your best with this write up.
I agree. This is supposed to be a site looking at smartphones from the camera perspective. As such there should be a mention of the camera sensor size. That's the first thing I was looking for. If that information is not available then at least say what you think it is. If nothing is known, then in any case there is not great point in presenting this here now. Let other more specialized sites talk about its 256-core processor and 2TB of RAM and amazing Android features. Here people are interested mainly in photo/video IQ and since the glass is really small (we can see that!), the most important factor will be the sensor size. Will it be the usual 1/3 or less or something closer to the Nokia ones.
Alphoid: I wish the Nokia phones would dual-boot Android and Windows Phone. I'd totally buy one of these models if I wasn't taking a risk on Windows but had a choice.
Alternatively, I wish some Android manufacturer would release a reasonable competitor.
It's funny. It seems like Nokia is hampered by Windows (since otherwise, almost all photographers would buy Nokia), and Windows is hampered by Nokia (who doesn't make the best hardware otherwise). If Microsoft had a strategy of choice on all handsets, it would work better for all involved.
Heck, if I got an Android+Windows phone, I'd at least try Windows. If Windows was better (and I've never used it, so aside from knowing how badly Windows sucks elsewhere, I have no idea), I'd switch to Windows.
It's sooooooo tiring listening the same thing over and over again "it's no Android, so we don't want it". Like listening to 10 yr old kids. At some point you might realise that the WP8 OS is just as good as any out there and actually feels more modern than the rest.
"a7's photos suffer from many of the same issues as Sony's compact cameras. These issues include posterization and clumsy sharpening and noise reduction algorithms"
Hum, when reading this one would be excused to think that DPR is indeed being overcritical of Sony. Are we talking about Sony's consumer compacts? Or the RX100/RX10? Because the latter jpegs do not "suffer" at all.
YiannisPP: Some of the 5MP samples look pretty bad, like the one of the church and the one of the car. I've seen stellar samples from the 1520 like this for example:http://www.flickr.com/photos/36088371@N00/11106588633/sizes/o/in/pool-2353118@N20/
Hi Howard. That was ISO 100 (I would've been really surprised if it were anything else!) and the guy says it was his first photo with the phone, so I doubt he shot his first photo with in DNG and converted it:) If you download the photo you can see the EXIF, says windows phone, no conversion software. Pretty impressive I thought... I somehow don't think a small sensor dedicated compact camera can match this particular shot in detail. Talking about the 12MP ones out there with 1/2.3 or 1/1.7 sensors.
Some of the 5MP samples look pretty bad, like the one of the church and the one of the car. I've seen stellar samples from the 1520 like this for example:http://www.flickr.com/photos/36088371@N00/11106588633/sizes/o/in/pool-2353118@N20/
Yet another case of someone servling us the obvious as "science".
unhavatar: Psychological studies are just things that keep paying the psychologist's bills. Personally, I consider their views to be a load of crap in general, probably all friends of Tony Blair. Obviously, a photograph will bring back more memory of a situation than none at all, especially when you can't really remember what someone looked like.
To be honest, I cannot remember agreeing with any psychologist.
Who told you they're getting paid for these studies? They're probably just happy they had something punlished on "Phychological Science" for free.
Joseph Mama: Comparing to a low level ELPH 115 or something would be more appropriate. Why use an S120? Thats a pretty good camera. Heck, maybe just use an RX100 and then crap all over the poor cameraphone...
I do not believe you, sorry but the 808 beats the S120 in terms of noise/detail (when you downscale the original 40MP file down to 12MP yourself and process accordingly. I've done this exercise, you probably haven't, you're just assuming. If you're referring to other aspects of performance like handling, WB or whatever then fine.
Because the Nokia beats this pretty good camera at wide angle.
Artistico: I wonder when Nokia will realise that they have to go Android to get more sales, though. The main reason they are losing market shares is first hanging onto the archaic Symbian platform and then going Windows Mobile at a time when all the other major players were under the Android umbrella or iOS. Result: No one bothers making apps for Windows Mobile because the market is too small to be worth the effort. In this day and age, it doesn't matter how good your phone's camera is if you cannot get the apps you are used to on your new phone.
I'd be happy to get a Nokia again, as I really like their cameras and having one would be like bringing a cheapish compact everywhere - but only if they switch to Android. Otherwise it's too much of a compromise for me, and for many others.
Yes but the world is a dynamic place. What you are reporting is of course true and well known. But what somebody else also reported here is also true, that Nokia is on the way up again from the bottom, The pace of ascent is only limited by the people I mentioned above.
meanwhile: For photos, this is only step one for the S120. It also shoots RAW. The quality difference of the RAW vs JPEG on the S series cameras can be significant (not always, but can be). Especially if you are looking to get details out of blown highlights or deep shadows, sharpen during demosaicing, or need to adjust white balance.
Any chance of adding the RAWs too?
I don't see why they wouldn't be supported in due time.
Only thing slowing Nokia WP8 phones accent is the attitude of people like those writing here, dismissing without even trying them. Because there's no way an unbiased person using a Lumia 820/920/1020 etc will find it lacking in any way compared to the Galaxies and IPhones. Except for the famed "apps" which has become a lollipop in WP/Nokia critics mouths. Who cares about whether the apps offered are 150.000 or 850.000? Not me, I can do anything I want with my Lumia and it's the best gadget I've ever owned.
howardroark: That last side-by-side says the "flare" on the Canon is more prominent. What flare are we talking about? I would imagine that zoomed in there is a little blurring due to lack of critical sharpness of the lens as well as some chromatic aberrations being corrected to appear more like blur and less like purple fringing. I don't see any flare at all. I'm not sure how these were processed, but I'd also imagine shooting in RAW might give the S120 a little more of an edge....who knows.
Things are simple: The Nokia has a lens which is able to resolve good detail and a sensor which is larger than the S120's. When you shoot RAW (or just turn that ridiculous high saturation down) and downsample to the S120's 12MP, you will get same or less noise than the S120 and more details.
mpgxsvcd: For a camera phone that is really good. I just wish they would put that camera in a better phone.
Better for you maybe. I wouldn't change my Lumia for neither or the "better" phones you're thinking.
Jogger: lmao, typical iSheepDroid responses.. did you know that Nokia sells more phones than most Android handset makers.. Android as a whole sells well.. but, divide that by 20 manufacturers with Samsung dominating most of it. Nokia can be very profitable as a WP phone maker, but, they would just be another bit-player if they used Android.
Really? I thought this article is about a new Nokia phone or am I dreaming YSLaiHK?
chillgreg: "Click through for more, you may be surprised by the results"
The surprise is that the Nokia beats the Canon at wide angle. Downsize the Nokia image at 12MP and shoot wide more moderate saturation (or in RAW) and you'll get an image with the same levels of noise as the Canon, but with clearly more detail.
The Nokia shoots RAW too. There's an article here in Connect about it and you can see that you can get a significant advantage from it over the phone's processing.
YSLaiHK: Noise, noise, noise !!!!!You should know which one I'm talking about. You guys in Connect really like noisey photos? Weird !
This is way oversaturated which contributes a lot to the noise you're seeing. If you shoot with the Canon's saturation and then resize to the Canon's 12MP, the noise levels will be the same and the Nokia will have clearly more detail.
YiannisPP: "crop its (RX10's) 20MP output down to 12MP to match the Stylus 1, and you'll get a 260mm equivalent shot."
I think that's slightly wrong. The reason being the RX10 has a 3:2 aspect ratio sensor as opposed to the Oly's 4:3. So you can't just square root the pixel count.In the horizontal dimension the Sony has 5472 pixels as opposed to 3968 of the Oly. That is a 5472/3968 = 1.38 magnification advantage due to the pixel count, so the 200mm of the RX10 actually corresponds to 200x1.38 = 276mm tele when you crop down to the Oly's size. Not 260mm.
You seem to strive for a more elegant, general solution which does not need to apply to a particular shape. And in doing so you stop paying attention to what is happening in practice. I am an engineer and not interested in that. For example I like finite element/volume kind of solutions for my problems, custom-made for a particular shape:) As opposed to elegant analytical solutions which are usually of limited use. I focus on how to get the most accurate solution possible, the one that will get me closer on average to what happens in reality.
"this (solid angle) avoids confusion, the very thing that brought the discussion right?"Sorry, I missed that. Well from my perspective, the discussion started in order to give a slightly more precise way of comparing the two cameras' reach.I didn't think there was any significant confusion about this. If there was, it was more about how the manufacturers really go about quoting their 35mm-equivalent focal lengths. After accepting that they use the diagonal angle of view, there was no ambiguity as far as I'm concerned. I am convinced that the real magnification advantage of the RX10 over the Oly due to its greater MP count is going to be greater than sqrt(20/12)=1.3 in reality. It's going to be 1.325 (at least). I think I explained why in length and the experiments I did with my 3 cameras support my calcs and some.