123Mike: The Sony A57 beats the lot of these.
Cane: So funny listening to people's viewfinder battle. Are any of you really trying to convince the other side of something? It's like yelling at clouds.
@naththothanks for delivering another proof of Cane's point. Now continue yelling.
@Hugo"The only way they can make cameras smaller is by putting a hideous EVF in place of the lovely OVF." The EVF lovers use similar language. You call that a "discussion"? Cane nailed it with his observation.So, now go back on your part of the clouds that are yelled at and yelled from.
marike6: I get some UK users complaining about price, but people here in the US and elsewhere forget that the D800 debuted at $2995, less than $500 below the nearest competitor, the Canon 5D Mk III. And the D600 was the first FF DSLR offered below the $2000 threshold.
It's very strange indeed to read DPR reviewers and USA commenters below complain about the pricing of the Df considering it is priced smack between the D600 and the D800, two groundbreaking FF DSLRs in terms of value, bodies that Nikon was universally applauded for pricing so competitively.
So if we agree that the D600 and D800 were extremely competitively priced at launch, how do we possibly conclude that the Df has an "eye watering" high price when it's priced between the D600 and D800?
@ Marike6"...And the D600 was the first FF DSLR offered below the $2000 threshold..."Wrong. That was the Sony a850.
Coliban: I think, there should not be too much attention on outward appearances and things should not be judged on at very first sight. Of course, the DF is a retro camera, but over that someone should not forget that this camera has the sensor of a D4, the sensor from a 5500$ camera for half the price. The ISO, compensation and speed dials will help taking images not in a hurry, but with much more attention and a slow conscious for the composition of an image. I rather complain that Nikon was not radical enough, or too cowardly(?) to accomplish retro design and handling: Why didn't they put a cross-section or a fresnel focus in the DF or an interchangeable focusing screen? Why such a AF sensor field and why only 39 AF points in a very centered place for a full frame camera? This is not consequent enough. Nevertheless, i thing, Nikon has made altogether a nice and very good camera and if i read all the condemning comments here,it seems that the DF will be a sellout. The D4 sensor is incredible
@ C olibanThanks for your dedicated answer. A nice change in this slew of "comments"!
"...this camera has the sensor of a D4, the sensor from a 5500$ camera for half the price...."Obviously, the other half was left out (FPS, AF module, etc.), which has the potential to render the choice of a speed optimized sensor close to 'preposterous'. Why not the D800e sensor? Lack of AF / MF accuracy maybe, which is less apparent on 16MP with AA filter compared to the scrutiny of 36MP sans AA filter?Only Nikon knows....
Ilebeback: Makes the Sony A7/A7r look like tomorrow's technology at a bargain price.
@ "Bamboozled"Looks like you did not google E Mount adaptors yet. Or, worse, you did - and still did not get the point.
Ralf B: To the owners of "50 year-old non-Ai lenses":Buy a Sony a7 or a7r and the corresponding adapter for a touch of retro design with a lot better MF support (focus peaking etc...) and better IQ according to DXO - just in case you are interested in getting out the best of your legacy glass independent from how you and your cam look while using the resulting image capture kit.
@ "Bamboozled":Google E mount adaptors and you may get the point....
@sandyB:Try to AF a 50 year-old non-Ai lens with the Nikon Df. Compatibility with this type of lenses is advertised as one selling point for the Nikon Df. The Sonys with corresponding adaptors are as compatible at least.
To the owners of "50 year-old non-Ai lenses":Buy a Sony a7 or a7r and the corresponding adapter for a touch of retro design with a lot better MF support (focus peaking etc...) and better IQ according to DXO - just in case you are interested in getting out the best of your legacy glass independent from how you and your cam look while using the resulting image capture kit.
reactivate your a900 production line and put the A7r sensor in. It beats the D4 sensor according to DXO. Leave out video like you did when first releasing the a900 back in late 2008 - according to Nikon you will have an OVF winner now!
Or bring it out with the old MD mount so that legacy Minolta manual focus lenses can be mounted directly - as the a900 caters for an interchangeable focus screen it is easier to adapt it to MF than this current Nikon release...
Can I have one in black with golden logo and letters as "John Player Black Special Edition" so that it will surely smoke the competition?
Ralf B: Nikon on a time travel in reverse to .... 2008: Sony a900 anyone? So Nikon plays catch-up (term borrowed from DPR's Canon 70D elaborations) in their design department 5 years after a lot of CaNikonians labelled the a900 "ugly" and complained about the missing built-in flash (will this Nikon re-incarnation have one or not by the way? From the current screen shots: Rather not). Acquired tastes do change, right?
@marike6 Funny you post "The idea that they are playing "catch-up" to anyone design wise is preposterous"Funny, as in complete ignorance of1. The context of the a900 market introduction in late 2008. FYI, the a900 was attacked back then for its retro, pure photography only approach as DSLR video was making its first appearances at the same time. Why did Sony bring its flagship clearly with the minds of Minolta still a work?2. Five years forward it is the Sony sensor in the A7R rattling the industry while Nikon steps back into 2008 (or even further) with a puristic-looking DSLR to appeal to which market niche? Catching-up with the retro design trend everywhere that is, no more. Ignoring this move as playing to the current retro market trend is what I would call preposterous.
Nikon on a time travel in reverse to .... 2008: Sony a900 anyone? So Nikon plays catch-up (term borrowed from DPR's Canon 70D elaborations) in their design department 5 years after a lot of CaNikonians labelled the a900 "ugly" and complained about the missing built-in flash (will this Nikon re-incarnation have one or not by the way? From the current screen shots: Rather not). Acquired tastes do change, right?
dylanbarnhart: Sony fragmentation continues. Just when you thought the Alpha was great, Sony tells you the SLT is better. Then the NEX came a long with even better image quality in smaller size. Then scratch that, full frame NEX is here. Oh and lenses you bought don't work now. If you're sick of buying lenses, then the RX superzoom is for you. Actually who needs a camera anyways, since we're all using camera phones nowadays. So scratch that and buy the QX lens camera instead. All you really sacrify is image quality.
But really, no matter what lenses you buy today, they won't work for yet another Sony system to be announced tomorrow. But don't worry, there will be adapters.
I thought Sony learned a lesson from their TV days. Guess not.
The Nex E Mount lenses work on the new bodies. In crop mode.
Ralf B: A breakthrough . . . also for the DPR review team!It has been a while since DPR wrote something this well researched and this well presented. Welcome back, guys, from too many "me too" articles. This piece deserves a "gold" award. Here is hoping for more of that!
@ Barney BrittonIf your reply speaks for DPR as a (w)hole, I take the part with "here is hoping..." back. Sorry to have overwhelmed you with a piece of well deserved positive feedback
HubertChen: Canon made a dramatic technological breakthrough: Sensor based AF has now the speed of OVF AF and at the same time is much more accurate. If you put this sensor into an LCD Viewfinder camera, the advantages become more obvious:
1) Camera is about 100 USD lower cost, because the complete OVF, plus mirror mechanism, plus additional PDAF sensor is removed, plus great simplification in firmware.2) New LCD viewfinder are becoming more appealing than OVF: Larger image, more display information, depth of field preview3) More accurate AF. Important to anyone with fast lenses who like to shoot shallow depth of field
This will be the winning camera and Canon just delivered the last missing piece to the puzzle: Sensor AF with no compromise. Big news!
About the PDAF inaccuracies shown in the Article. Anyone shooting very fast lenses in close distance knows these problems. Any PDAF camera has it. It is an inherent System Problem, not a dpreview staff problem!
Have a look at the Sony SLTs. Sony did away with the OVF and the flapping mirror for PDAF, but chose a fixed mirror for PDAF for higher PDAF accuracy by eliminating the movement.Not all Sony A Mount shooters bought into the move. Many did, as did brand switchers who saw the advantages. Those buying the idea enjoy the best live view AF SLR system currently on the market.The A Mount community anticipates that Sony's next move is to take PDAF on the main sensor and do away with the SLT mirror.
A breakthrough . . . also for the DPR review team!It has been a while since DPR wrote something this well researched and this well presented. Welcome back, guys, from too many "me too" articles. This piece deserves a "gold" award. Here is hoping for more of that!
... and thinking of DPR's future, how come I find more and more sources of good digital photography elsewhere compared to 8 years ago? A lens rental site disclosing the quality assurance process they run on their lens stock makes for a better read than found on this site here for quite some time!Diversity isn't the only key to survival, Simon. Remember where this site came from...so hats off for the courage to actually link to the good stuff over at IR and Lens Rental. A good service to your web site visitors (= customers)!
In that context: Thanks for NOT linking to rumor sites, that "service" is taken care of by forum rumor mongers to an over-saturating degree :-(
Hats off to Dave! Reading his post made me feel like having been there myself.Now give him and Simon Joinson some more sake and let them negotiate a joint venture of IR and DPR ...
Congrats! Great shot!