WT21: The problem with roundups is that at any given moment, some camera is new, and some is old. The XPro 1 is getting long in the tooth. The 70D and EM1 are the lastest and greatest from their respected makers, as some examples. Not that there's any choice, of course. You have to roll with what you got. But I would argue the XE2 would be a better choice here than the XP1. I'm not a Fuji user, but I think the XE2 is competitive with the rest of this lot. The XP1 is kind of it's own thing.
RButler -- "This is a point in time - winter 2013 and, at this point, the cameras that are new are the cameras that are new."
is so different from what I said"Not that there's any choice, of course. You have to roll with what you got."
The problem with roundups is that at any given moment, some camera is new, and some is old. The XPro 1 is getting long in the tooth. The 70D and EM1 are the lastest and greatest from their respected makers, as some examples. Not that there's any choice, of course. You have to roll with what you got. But I would argue the XE2 would be a better choice here than the XP1. I'm not a Fuji user, but I think the XE2 is competitive with the rest of this lot. The XP1 is kind of it's own thing.
Jogger: Not sure i would agree with the EM1.. for $300 more you can get a Sony A7 with same build quality and 4x the sensor. Lenses that you adapt to it retain their original focal length rather than suffer the 2x crop penalty. Good lenses for the m43 are expensive and have slow apertures compared to FF. And EM1 video quality is atrocious and lacks common formats (where is 1080p60, AVCHD), something not factored into in the analysis.
It's only a penalty if you are trying to go wide. I rather have enjoyed 50mm on m43. It's a nice FL on 2X crop for a lot of uses. Also, the 100-300 is the smallest super-duper zoom you'll find for that FOV. Crop is a feature that is good or bad relative to your needs. Not some universal absolute.
Casio needs to get OUT of the game for their own good. There are frankly too many cameras chasing dwindling consumers. Good for us, but if I cared about Casio, I'd have to ask them what in the world they are doing.
Can I just comment that neither look very good?
PerL: After checking on camera size com one can see that the Df is not much bigger than a Panasonic m43 G3H (15 mm thinner actually) , close to the same size as APS-C Pentax K3 and a little bit lighter (and 11 mm thinner). Just mentioning for those claiming it is large and bulky.
The "thinness" has to do with the grip only. At camerasize, the main portion of the body is clearly thicker. The Df is appreciably taller. The DF is 710g, the GH3 550g. The GH3 is the largest m43. The DF is the smallest Nikon FF DSLR. I think a better comparison is the DF to the D610. They are pretty much the same size, though the D610 is about 40g heavier. Or, compare the DF to the Sony FF mirrorless. The DF is a big camera. That's OK, but it's silly to say it's small. It's only small compared to the largest DSLRs.
Nice looking camera, but the typical un-vibrant colors I have seen from several years of using m43.
graybalanced: I think of all those who fought in the forum flame wars about whether optical viewfinders are better than electronic viewfinders.
Robert Capa photographed a real war, and he didn't even need his viewfinder to become a more famous photographer than you.
Could there be a shallower comment?
It's a very sweet looking camera. Pretty nice controls for that size, too. And the best part? It'll be selling for less than $300 within a year, if past Panasonic camera body prices are any indication.
brownie314: This will probably be a great lens. Although Nikon and Canon users already have options in this range and aperture. But I don't think f/4 lenses get the proper attention they deserve. Many photographers poopoo on them because they are not "fast enough". But these f/4 lenses can be made smaller and tougher than the larger f/2.8 companions. And with the ever increasing iso performance of bodies, f/4 is good enough many times. I personally wish Sigma or Tamron (or Tokina) would make a 50-150 f/4 lens for aps-c that is tough and weather sealed. I don't know of any options for a lens like this from anyone (well I don't know much about Pentax, maybe they do). But it could be made much smaller than the big 70-200 f/2.8 lenses most people mount on there aps-c dslrs, just because they don't have an option. And yes I know that there are 70-200 f/4 lenses, but 50mm is a much better place to start for aps-c than 70mm.
Tokina makes (or made) a 50-135/2.8. It is a tank in terms of build. http://www.photozone.de/Reviews/277-tokina-af-50-135mm-f28-at-x-pro-dx-test-report--review
Wake me up when they finally put a 43 sensor in a fixed lens compact.
The smallest I'll go is 1" sensor. The RX100 killed everything underneath that size for me.
gusda9: These people are not original gypsies like I am they are Irish people living in a camp Real gypsys spread from India a thousand years ago They don't even speak the Romani language All of you are very ignorant of the culture of Gypsys We speak a very Distinctive language that is understandable Throughout the world by Other Gypsies Its like seeing any Asian person and saying they are Chinese Really people you need to google stuff up
There are still real gypsies, so there cannot be "new" gypsies. These are hipster young people with empty lives. Kids of lawyers and business people, looking for meaning in their life. They are romantics at best. The world has seen their lot before. Nothing new here.
mcshan: One article about hipsters and another about gypsies. Sad.
Hipster + Gypsy = Hippie. Nothing new under the sun, it's just now with social media accounts.
I like how, when you push down on one side, it takes 2-3 seconds to show you the time. Really cutting edge stuff there!
mpgxsvcd: At base ISO I really couldn't see how this camera had any better image quality than the Olympus OMD. If you stick the excellent Panasonic 20mm F1.7 lens on the Olympus or the upcoming Panasonic GX7 you would have the same image quality(or Better) for about the same price.
The biggest difference is that you could also then have an interchangeable lens camera. I don't think that the X100S is a bad camera. I just think that the fixed lens compact category offers no benefit over an interchangeable lens compact camera.
Inthemist, you need to define why that aps-c sensor is a benefit. Listing a tech spec doesnt automagically make it better.
InTheMist: Fuji and Sigma are putting the big three to shame at the moment.(Full Disclosure: D800 owner)
I think Nikon and Canon's latest releases are very good. Yes, Sigma and Fuji are finding niche's, and Sigma especially looks like a threat (of course, Canon and Nikon could just tweak their AF and make Sigma's life problematic). But Canon and Nikon are still doing well, IMO. Even in mirrorless. They are slow, but their offerings both look good (Nikon 1 series is solid in it's niche, and Canon's M series is set up for a nice vision IF Canon executes with the 70D sensor)
Wish I could get this in the US. Epm2 + 17 is exactly what I'm shopping right now.
jlabate: One of the features that I liked about the original Pens was the option to set different aspect ratios, 1:1 being my favorite. I haven't seen those additional ratios listed in the specs in the new Pens. Do the new noes not have that ability anymore?
They are there
forpetessake: Can't wait to see the sibling rivalries on the m43 forum. Both E-P5 and E-M5 produce religious following, and true believers always zealously fight the infidels from another camp.
An appropriate post for someone with your handle (i.e. forpetessake)
BuckarooBanzai: What's the over/under point on the price point of the body only being $600? I say 1 year from now.
Price drop is the reason I held off the OMD for a while, but surprisingly the price has remained relatively high for Oly. I really think the latest tech in Oly is helping them support their prices. These are not just compact or good cameras any more, they are GREAT cameras. Oh, and the OMD and now EPL5 offer AMAZING control and customization.