Pretec 12 GB CF - just $14,900 ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Started May 26, 2004 | Discussions
Sean Keegan
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Re: What????
In reply to Steve Bingham, May 27, 2004

No that is the way it is. If you want to be on the cutting edge, you have to pay big bucks. Is it any more silly than when Nikon/Kodak were selling their SLR/digital back combos for over $15,000 dollars not too long ago and were less than one megapixel? They sold plenty of them. It is just making such waves on this site because the people who are on this site are NOT who this card is intended for. But for those it is intended for, it will sell. Don't worry, give it a few years and you will be able to get one for less than 500 dollars.

Regards,
Sean

Steve Bingham wrote:

They must be out of their f*(^#@ minds!

Steve Bingham
http://www.dustylens.com

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Sean Keegan
Senior MemberPosts: 2,994
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Re: Not sure what you're getting at
In reply to photogeek, May 27, 2004

You are very short sighted at all the uses this card could be used for... not just photography. It will sell faster than it can be produced at this price I imagine for a while, just not to people like you. Don't worry, it will come down to your price after a few years. Does no one remember the days when computers cost outrageous amounts?! Remember when the Macintosh II cost $12,000 and had a whopping 1mb of memory.

Regards,
Sean

photogeek wrote:

If I want to store terabytes of pictures I can write them to 300GB
hard drives that are available everywhere for cheap. Or to 300GB
tapes if we're talking about long-term archival storage.

If, on the other hand, I want to use something to take tons of
pictures at a sports event, I'll simply buy a couple of 40GB
storage units and 2-3 high speed 2GB flash cards. Problem solved.

The point was that this card is beyond any reason in terms of
pricing, and that's not the wisest marketing thing to do.

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Joseph S Wisniewski
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You're just a kid...
In reply to Sean Keegan, May 27, 2004

Sean Keegan wrote:

Yeah, that is if they are all 1mb modules which were cheap back
then at 500. I remember the day when 2 64mb modules cost 180,000!
Or 16.9 milliion dollars for 12 gigs!

1975, a 4k memory card for an H8 (using 32 chips, each with a whopping kilobit of memory) cost $600. That's 1.8 billion dollars for 12 gigs.

By 1977, an off-the-shelf TRS-80 had 16k of ram in eight 16k bit chips.

Of course, that's RAM, it might be fairer to compare a CF card to hard disk.

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Joseph S Wisniewski
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Re: Clever marketing, clever price
In reply to Sean Keegan, May 27, 2004

Sean Keegan wrote:

I guess people forget the days when DVD players cost $10,000
dollars, and what could you even play on them at the time? 15
titles?

We had one in the lab, one of the first region one players. Five DVDs were initially released in region one. One was a documentary on volcanos. One was somethiing called "Animation Greats". I still have it. It's the oldest DVD you're ever likely to see. If I had known, back in 97, that this disk was so bad it was not worth watching (both in the National Film Board of Canada's choice of "great" animation, and the absolutly horrid DVD coding), and that it would now be worth $120 unopened as a collectors item, I would have hid it away.

And the cat came back....

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photogeek
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In reply to Sean Keegan, May 27, 2004

Sean Keegan wrote:

You are very short sighted at all the uses this card could be used
for... not just photography.

And you seem to think too much about yourself.

amounts?! Remember when the Macintosh II cost $12,000 and had a
whopping 1mb of memory.

Well, those days are over. These days computers cost anywhere between $300 and $3K and have gigabytes of ram and sometimes terabyte of storage.

These folks are asking $1250 a gig which is FIVE TIMES the price of a nice fast gigabyte of Compact Flash storage these days.

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Michael Meissner
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Re: Maybe not for YOU...
In reply to jase, May 27, 2004

jase wrote:

Jón Ragnarsson wrote:

But I can understand that SOME photographers need one. 8MP at 8fps
fill up card very quickly. And the 1D's are heavy enough, thank you.
Please keep an open mind.
J.

I think the open mind comment was gratuitously patronising and
unnecessary.

You could run a 1D tethered straight on to the notebook via the PC
cable and you could have 40G or whatever to fill up and still have
change of 12K

Out of curiousity, can a 1D be tethered and uploading files while you are taking new pictures? If not, I can certainly imagine sports photographers and paparazzi needing to continously fill their 1d-mark2, and are afraid of missing the perfect cover photo for Sports Illustrated or the Enquirer. The D2H's 802.11b wireless option sending to a local laptop is one possibility, but I'm not sure there is enough bandwidth to keep up at full clip. Also, I wonder how much a full kit would weigh -- lets see, you have the 1D-mark2, a couple of 400, 500, and 600mm lenses, a couple of Quantum battery packs, laptop, more battery packs to make sure the laptop is running the whole time. Note also laptop disks are fragile when running, so you might make the whole thing unreliable by adding the laptop.

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Sean Keegan
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You really are missing the point....
In reply to photogeek, May 27, 2004

You missed the point. The point is that 'yes' it is really expensive. Yes no one who does casaul photography or even most pros would ever even consider buying one at this price. But we are not who this card is targeting, not by a long shot. Those people this card is targeting will happily pay this much money for that amount of memory that you can get in a single CF card no where else!

The point about the higher cost of cutting edge stuff gradually dropping to levels that you and I can afford is what I was illustrating. Nothing on this site is cutting edge. Do you really think the 1DS, SLRn, D1MKII, or any other camera on this site is cutting edge? Nope, what we consider pro is mass market consumer equiptment really? Try paying 30,000 or lots more for a digital camera. Now that is cutting edge equipment, and a pretty large market for the price, and you will not find them on this site.

Up until now large format digital backs and scanning backs have had to be tethered to a computer or use hard drives to handle the HUGE file sizes they produce. Now for the first time it is possible to make cameras that use this new 12 gig card and release these photographers from the chains of being tethered, and actually run for a decent time on batteries. You can bet $14,000 is worth it to some of these people.

How about high res digital camcorders now being able to get even smaller using this CF for its storage. For that matter, how about HDTV cameras that do not need to be tethered or have a hard drive and that could run on small batteries! I bet people like George Lucas could use quite a few of these cards in his production of Star Wars Episode 3 which like Episode 2 is being shot completely digitally. TV ads sometimes have budgets in the millions, and many of them have larger budgets than most movies! Having a HD camera truly portable and small is a huge advantage and a drop in the bucket of their budgets.

How about doctors being able to carry around a PDA or tablet PC with every patients records and X-Ray scans, MRI scans and databases of all drugs, etc. etc. on a single CF card? $14,000 is a drop in the bucket when some equiptment in hospitals runs in the millions. Did you know that LCD monitors used in the medical field can run $100,000 dollars or more for each monitor?! High dynamic range ultra high res LCDs with contrast ratios of 60,000 to 1!! (yes they really exist) Those would be perfect for us photgraphers, but they are not aimed at this market. (yet). This CF card is pocket change for them.

How about like others have mentioned, deep sea divers, explorers/scientists in antartica where changing cards could risk frostbite from removing your gloves to fiddle with CF cards, space exploration. I can think of hundreds of uses for this card where too many smaller cards would be impractical, and probably hundreds of uses I could never even dream of. There are lots of businesses and uses where the budgets are so large that $14,000 is like spending a single dollar would be for us.

So my whole point in this is:

This is not really targeted to the people who frequent this site. And the market will be large enough to sell many of them. Enough to drive the price down to where we can afford it in a few years. I can promise you that the company making this card is not trying to gouge people and rip them off. The technical work and research needed to make this technical marvel was SERIOUSLY expensive, and they are probably not making much profit at $14,000 dollars. But thankfully there will be enough sales that the cost of developing this behemoth will get paid for, and then the cost will fall rapidly, and hopefully in 3 years or so we will be able to buy one at Best Buy, or find them in MP3 players portable video players etc. I mean, that is enough space to hold a complete DVD at full resolution and then some! Almost enough space to hold an entire HD movie at 1920x1080!

It is not about thinking too much of myself. Just trying to get people to see this is a great step forward regardless of the cost. But as all such things that are cutting edge... they are expensive and not targeting the average person with these products. But all it takes is time and someday they will be giving these things away with a disposable 30 megapixel camera you get in a cereal box ;).

Regards,
Sean

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greentank
Regular MemberPosts: 472
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Re: You really are missing the point....
In reply to Sean Keegan, May 27, 2004

point taken, However, it's still the equivalent to me of a $6,000 wastebasket or a $2000 shower curtain. The DPReview people put the ad on their website, which as you stated contains 99.9% people who will NOT buy this card. They might as well put up news announcements for $5mil digital satellite cameras or Hubbel Telescope optics. The ridicule this product is getting here is totally understandable - its being advertized on an improper forum. But hey....a little harmless ridicule is fun every now and then.

Sean Keegan wrote:

You missed the point. The point is that 'yes' it is really
expensive. Yes no one who does casaul photography or even most pros
would ever even consider buying one at this price. But we are not
who this card is targeting, not by a long shot. Those people this
card is targeting will happily pay this much money for that amount
of memory that you can get in a single CF card no where else!

The point about the higher cost of cutting edge stuff gradually
dropping to levels that you and I can afford is what I was
illustrating. Nothing on this site is cutting edge. Do you really
think the 1DS, SLRn, D1MKII, or any other camera on this site is
cutting edge? Nope, what we consider pro is mass market consumer
equiptment really? Try paying 30,000 or lots more for a digital
camera. Now that is cutting edge equipment, and a pretty large
market for the price, and you will not find them on this site.

Up until now large format digital backs and scanning backs have had
to be tethered to a computer or use hard drives to handle the HUGE
file sizes they produce. Now for the first time it is possible to
make cameras that use this new 12 gig card and release these
photographers from the chains of being tethered, and actually run
for a decent time on batteries. You can bet $14,000 is worth it to
some of these people.

How about high res digital camcorders now being able to get even
smaller using this CF for its storage. For that matter, how about
HDTV cameras that do not need to be tethered or have a hard drive
and that could run on small batteries! I bet people like George
Lucas could use quite a few of these cards in his production of
Star Wars Episode 3 which like Episode 2 is being shot completely
digitally. TV ads sometimes have budgets in the millions, and many
of them have larger budgets than most movies! Having a HD camera
truly portable and small is a huge advantage and a drop in the
bucket of their budgets.

How about doctors being able to carry around a PDA or tablet PC
with every patients records and X-Ray scans, MRI scans and
databases of all drugs, etc. etc. on a single CF card? $14,000 is a
drop in the bucket when some equiptment in hospitals runs in the
millions. Did you know that LCD monitors used in the medical field
can run $100,000 dollars or more for each monitor?! High dynamic
range ultra high res LCDs with contrast ratios of 60,000 to 1!!
(yes they really exist) Those would be perfect for us photgraphers,
but they are not aimed at this market. (yet). This CF card is
pocket change for them.

How about like others have mentioned, deep sea divers,
explorers/scientists in antartica where changing cards could risk
frostbite from removing your gloves to fiddle with CF cards, space
exploration. I can think of hundreds of uses for this card where
too many smaller cards would be impractical, and probably hundreds
of uses I could never even dream of. There are lots of businesses
and uses where the budgets are so large that $14,000 is like
spending a single dollar would be for us.

So my whole point in this is:

This is not really targeted to the people who frequent this site.
And the market will be large enough to sell many of them. Enough to
drive the price down to where we can afford it in a few years. I
can promise you that the company making this card is not trying to
gouge people and rip them off. The technical work and research
needed to make this technical marvel was SERIOUSLY expensive, and
they are probably not making much profit at $14,000 dollars. But
thankfully there will be enough sales that the cost of developing
this behemoth will get paid for, and then the cost will fall
rapidly, and hopefully in 3 years or so we will be able to buy one
at Best Buy, or find them in MP3 players portable video players
etc. I mean, that is enough space to hold a complete DVD at full
resolution and then some! Almost enough space to hold an entire HD
movie at 1920x1080!

It is not about thinking too much of myself. Just trying to get
people to see this is a great step forward regardless of the cost.
But as all such things that are cutting edge... they are expensive
and not targeting the average person with these products. But all
it takes is time and someday they will be giving these things away
with a disposable 30 megapixel camera you get in a cereal box ;).

Regards,
Sean

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10D, 17-40L, 70-200 2.8L IS, 50 1.4, 28-135 IS

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Joseph S Wisniewski
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It's news, not advertising...
In reply to greentank, May 27, 2004

greentank wrote:

point taken, However, it's still the equivalent to me of a $6,000
wastebasket or a $2000 shower curtain.

Only if the $6000 wastebasket or $2000 shower curtain do something that you need them to do, that can't be replaced by a lesser wastebasket or shower curtain.

The DPReview people put the
ad on their website, which as you stated contains 99.9% people who
will NOT buy this card. They might as well put up news
announcements for $5mil digital satellite cameras or Hubbel
Telescope optics.

What was that you said about "totally missing the point"?

It's not advertising, it's a new story. Someone sent Phil an interesting press relese (or, like a good journalist, he found it himself) about a product that gives you insight into what you're going to be using in your camera in the two or three years. He used his editorial judgement, thought it was interesting, and told us about it.

Sort of like when he did the article about the Philips fluid lens that could be focused with an electric charge. Or the articles about Foveon technology a year or two before Sigma actually put a Foveon sensor into the camera. Or the article about the Fuji 22mp sensor for high end digital backs.

The ridicule this product is getting here is
totally understandable - its being advertized on an improper forum.
But hey....a little harmless ridicule is fun every now and then.

True. But in this case, you're doing it to yourself.

-- hide signature --

A cyberstalker told me not to post anymore...
So I'm posting even more!

Ciao!

Joe

http://www.swissarmyfork.com

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DominiqueGrubestedt
Regular MemberPosts: 189
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Just simply; Amen! Sean, totally agree! (nt)
In reply to Sean Keegan, May 27, 2004

Sean Keegan wrote:

You missed the point. The point is that 'yes' it is really
expensive. Yes no one who does casaul photography or even most pros
would ever even consider buying one at this price. But we are not
who this card is targeting, not by a long shot. Those people this
card is targeting will happily pay this much money for that amount
of memory that you can get in a single CF card no where else!

The point about the higher cost of cutting edge stuff gradually
dropping to levels that you and I can afford is what I was
illustrating. Nothing on this site is cutting edge. Do you really
think the 1DS, SLRn, D1MKII, or any other camera on this site is
cutting edge? Nope, what we consider pro is mass market consumer
equiptment really? Try paying 30,000 or lots more for a digital
camera. Now that is cutting edge equipment, and a pretty large
market for the price, and you will not find them on this site.

Up until now large format digital backs and scanning backs have had
to be tethered to a computer or use hard drives to handle the HUGE
file sizes they produce. Now for the first time it is possible to
make cameras that use this new 12 gig card and release these
photographers from the chains of being tethered, and actually run
for a decent time on batteries. You can bet $14,000 is worth it to
some of these people.

How about high res digital camcorders now being able to get even
smaller using this CF for its storage. For that matter, how about
HDTV cameras that do not need to be tethered or have a hard drive
and that could run on small batteries! I bet people like George
Lucas could use quite a few of these cards in his production of
Star Wars Episode 3 which like Episode 2 is being shot completely
digitally. TV ads sometimes have budgets in the millions, and many
of them have larger budgets than most movies! Having a HD camera
truly portable and small is a huge advantage and a drop in the
bucket of their budgets.

How about doctors being able to carry around a PDA or tablet PC
with every patients records and X-Ray scans, MRI scans and
databases of all drugs, etc. etc. on a single CF card? $14,000 is a
drop in the bucket when some equiptment in hospitals runs in the
millions. Did you know that LCD monitors used in the medical field
can run $100,000 dollars or more for each monitor?! High dynamic
range ultra high res LCDs with contrast ratios of 60,000 to 1!!
(yes they really exist) Those would be perfect for us photgraphers,
but they are not aimed at this market. (yet). This CF card is
pocket change for them.

How about like others have mentioned, deep sea divers,
explorers/scientists in antartica where changing cards could risk
frostbite from removing your gloves to fiddle with CF cards, space
exploration. I can think of hundreds of uses for this card where
too many smaller cards would be impractical, and probably hundreds
of uses I could never even dream of. There are lots of businesses
and uses where the budgets are so large that $14,000 is like
spending a single dollar would be for us.

So my whole point in this is:

This is not really targeted to the people who frequent this site.
And the market will be large enough to sell many of them. Enough to
drive the price down to where we can afford it in a few years. I
can promise you that the company making this card is not trying to
gouge people and rip them off. The technical work and research
needed to make this technical marvel was SERIOUSLY expensive, and
they are probably not making much profit at $14,000 dollars. But
thankfully there will be enough sales that the cost of developing
this behemoth will get paid for, and then the cost will fall
rapidly, and hopefully in 3 years or so we will be able to buy one
at Best Buy, or find them in MP3 players portable video players
etc. I mean, that is enough space to hold a complete DVD at full
resolution and then some! Almost enough space to hold an entire HD
movie at 1920x1080!

It is not about thinking too much of myself. Just trying to get
people to see this is a great step forward regardless of the cost.
But as all such things that are cutting edge... they are expensive
and not targeting the average person with these products. But all
it takes is time and someday they will be giving these things away
with a disposable 30 megapixel camera you get in a cereal box ;).

Regards,
Sean

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