7DII Autofocus Inconsistency

[orbmansony]

I am using a Canon 7DII with a Canon 400mm L f/5.6 for wildlife photography. For birds in flight, I am using AI Servo Case 5 with T=0, A/C=1, and AF PT=2. I also have 1st and 2nd image priority set to Focus. I was getting inconsistent focus with the expanded center point, so I tried switching to central zone AF points.

I was shooting yesterday in good sunlight, and was lucky enough to get quite a few shots of a juvenile Golden Eagle as it circled multiple times as it slowly gained altitude in a thermal. Some of my bursts of shots are all in focus, and some of the bursts are all out of focus. It doesn't seem to matter whether or not the camera thinks it has achieved focus.

Here are some examples at 50% view in DPP:

Good focus, AF point lock

Good focus, no AF point lock

Poor focus (seen well OOF at 100%), AF point lock

Poor focus, no AF point lock

The 7dII manual states that with image priority set to focus, the shutter won't fire until AF is achieved. Clearly, this is not happening, and when I only have time for a few shots, I can easily miss getting an in-focus shot.

I would really like to have the camera wait until focus is achieved before firing the shutter. If it won't AF lock, I can then switch to manual focus and try that, but now I don't know until after the bird is gone.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Orb . . .

 

[DualSystemGuy]

The 7D2 has well documented AF issues, particularly with consistency and accuracy (google 7DII AF issues if you want to read all day). If you have an affected body you may have to send it back to Canon. The ones that come back seem to get fixed to most people's satisfaction, but the issue remains unacknowledged by Canon and there is no advisory as far as I know. Just something to be aware of - I hope you get things sorted out.

 

[Boomanbb]

I am using a Canon 7DII with a Canon 400mm L f/5.6 for wildlife photography. For birds in flight, I am using AI Servo Case 5 with T=0, A/C=1, and AF PT=2. I also have 1st and 2nd image priority set to Focus. I was getting inconsistent focus with the expanded center point, so I tried switching to central zone AF points.

I was shooting yesterday in good sunlight, and was lucky enough to get quite a few shots of a juvenile Golden Eagle as it circled multiple times as it slowly gained altitude in a thermal. Some of my bursts of shots are all in focus, and some of the bursts are all out of focus. It doesn't seem to matter whether or not the camera thinks it has achieved focus.

Here are some examples at 50% view in DPP:

Good focus, AF point lock

Good focus, no AF point lock

Poor focus (seen well OOF at 100%), AF point lock

Poor focus, no AF point lock

The 7dII manual states that with image priority set to focus, the shutter won't fire until AF is achieved. Clearly, this is not happening, and when I only have time for a few shots, I can easily miss getting an in-focus shot.

I would really like to have the camera wait until focus is achieved before firing the shutter. If it won't AF lock, I can then switch to manual focus and try that, but now I don't know until after the bird is gone.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Orb . . .

There could be many reasons why you are getting some images in focus and some not and the answer may be a combination of the three. If you really want the camera to only fire when you are in focus you need to be using one shot mode. When your subject is in motion, the camera is "trying" constantly to get it into focus but it will still sometimes miss with aiservo or aifocus.

You have a very small target there, it appears only as large as two focus points. Do you have the same focus issues when looking at a larger target, maybe one that takes up a quarter of your viewfinder?

--
Ben Boozer
Disagree without being disagreeable

 

[orbmansony]

I usually only have this focus issue with small targets, and not when a bird in flight is significantly closer. In some cases shown above, the lens might have been close to correct focus so I got good shots even though it didn't focus. But I don't really understand why some shots are OOF when the AF locks on, or why the shutter fires with AF lock. If there was a way to stop shutter firing when there isn't AF lock, then I could go manual. I thought that setting the 1st and 2nd image priority to focus would do this.

I have had the 7DII for more than one year, so it is out-of-warranty. And I use the camera several times every week, and parting with it would be a problem.

Thanks,

Orb . . .

 

[Austin_Luker]

I have noticed this also but not on the 7DII I saw it on my 1DMKIV and 7D more with the 7D though. I always thought it has something to do with image stabilization in the lens causing slight vibrations or something I am not sure what. Sometimes the images are just a little soft, but it didn't miss focus per say. I have also had just like you where images were way OOF for no reason. I think Canon's have small gremlins inside that like to fuc* with us


AustinLuker.com
7D-5DMKII-1DMKIV

 

[richardkra]

Not sure what you mean by AF point lock. I have only had my 7Dii for a couple of weeks, but my understanding of AI Servo is that the point will change to track the object you are shooting. And I believe that having the camera not fire if focus is not achieved only applies to One Shot. More experienced users, please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[RogerZoul]

I usually only have this focus issue with small targets, and not when a bird in flight is significantly closer. In some cases shown above, the lens might have been close to correct focus so I got good shots even though it didn't focus. But I don't really understand why some shots are OOF when the AF locks on, or why the shutter fires with AF lock. If there was a way to stop shutter firing when there isn't AF lock, then I could go manual. I thought that setting the 1st and 2nd image priority to focus would do this.

I have had the 7DII for more than one year, so it is out-of-warranty. And I use the camera several times every week, and parting with it would be a problem.

Thanks,

Orb . . .

If you are in ai servo, and set the first and second priority to focus, the shutter will indeed not fire until the camera thinks it has focus. I shot this way for a long time until I decided it didn't help. i find that you can not trust these pics from dpp showing af lock. you get images that say a lock has been achieved but the images is clearly oof. hence, it is useless. i set my camera back to default. what is the difference in not having the camera fire until lock is achieved (but the image is oof) vs just having the first few shots be oof? the former drove me nuts because i want the shutter to fire when I press the button. the latter didn't drive me nuts but i might, or might not get the first few shots.

Are you using BBF? If not, i suggest you look into it. i would keep trying to get your technique down and not look at these images. the 7dm2 and the 400 mm prime can track birds with amazing accuracy once you get it down. i have many shot sequences of much smaller birds all in focus.

 

[orbmansony]

Not sure what you mean by AF point lock. I have only had my 7Dii for a couple of weeks, but my understanding of AI Servo is that the point will change to track the object you are shooting. And I believe that having the camera not fire if focus is not achieved only applies to One Shot. More experienced users, please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[orbmansony]

I usually only have this focus issue with small targets, and not when a bird in flight is significantly closer. In some cases shown above, the lens might have been close to correct focus so I got good shots even though it didn't focus. But I don't really understand why some shots are OOF when the AF locks on, or why the shutter fires with AF lock. If there was a way to stop shutter firing when there isn't AF lock, then I could go manual. I thought that setting the 1st and 2nd image priority to focus would do this.

I have had the 7DII for more than one year, so it is out-of-warranty. And I use the camera several times every week, and parting with it would be a problem.

Thanks,

Orb . . .

If you are in ai servo, and set the first and second priority to focus, the shutter will indeed not fire until the camera thinks it has focus. I shot this way for a long time until I decided it didn't help. i find that you can not trust these pics from dpp showing af lock. you get images that say a lock has been achieved but the images is clearly oof. hence, it is useless. i set my camera back to default. what is the difference in not having the camera fire until lock is achieved (but the image is oof) vs just having the first few shots be oof? the former drove me nuts because i want the shutter to fire when I press the button. the latter didn't drive me nuts but i might, or might not get the first few shots.

Are you using BBF? If not, i suggest you look into it. i would keep trying to get your technique down and not look at these images. the 7dm2 and the 400 mm prime can track birds with amazing accuracy once you get it down. i have many shot sequences of much smaller birds all in focus.

What is BFF? I have taken 400,000 photos with my 400mm lens on four Canon camera bodies, and have lots of really good BIF shots. Same techniques always used other than some of the new 7DII settings. The results are just not consistent.

Orb . . .

 

[mailman88]

.....check results. On my 7D, I only single point focus.

 

[Neil Schofield]

Case 5 is for eratically moving objects, you might also want to check out case 2 which tries to retain focus longer once locked on

I use BBF and case 2 for BIF and try to use centre point with expansions which fit the size of the bird in the frame, if you go bigger then AF can more easily jump to the background, and whilst admittedly your background is nice and clear, I can't help but think the AF may be looking for something else to lock on to because of the case 5, it's possibly bit like the old style IS on a tripod when the IS makes an erroneous call

As well as using case 2, I also slow down the movement away from subject with the sub settings, and have first shot with release priority then equal there on

I find it relatively easy to lock on to the BIF but the difficulty is then maintaining that particularly when the subject is quite small in the frame, and to make things a little more challenging I normally have a teleconverter on the lens as well

hope this helps

 

[Neil Schofield]

BBF is back button focusing only, ie you take the focus off the shutter button and focus with a back button

once locked on you keep the focus button pressed, but only fire the shutter when you want, and if som awkward background comes up simply release the focus button and you can keep firing without risking losing focus

its quite useful for prefocusing as well, because you can set your focal point using the AF, and then maintain the focal plane whilst still shooting

 

[orbmansony]

.....check results. On my 7D, I only single point focus.

I have tried single point only. I found for birds that are quite a distance away, it is difficult to keep the point on the moving bird, as there must be a slight delay between the time I have the point on the bird, half-press, and then the shutter fires. I do use single point for perched birds in One-shot AF, and have gotten great results with the 7DII. The only problem I am really having is on distant flying birds using AI Servo.

Orb . . .

 

[orbmansony]

Case 5 is for eratically moving objects, you might also want to check out case 2 which tries to retain focus longer once locked on

I use BBF and case 2 for BIF and try to use centre point with expansions which fit the size of the bird in the frame, if you go bigger then AF can more easily jump to the background, and whilst admittedly your background is nice and clear, I can't help but think the AF may be looking for something else to lock on to because of the case 5, it's possibly bit like the old style IS on a tripod when the IS makes an erroneous call

As well as using case 2, I also slow down the movement away from subject with the sub settings, and have first shot with release priority then equal there on

I find it relatively easy to lock on to the BIF but the difficulty is then maintaining that particularly when the subject is quite small in the frame, and to make things a little more challenging I normally have a teleconverter on the lens as well

hope this helps

Not sure what Case 2 would do to help with a clear sky background?? But I haven't tried Case 1. Perhaps Case 5 is trying too hard! When I can do some more testing, I will try other Cases.

Thanks,

Orb . . .

 

[orbmansony]

BBF is back button focusing only, ie you take the focus off the shutter button and focus with a back button

once locked on you keep the focus button pressed, but only fire the shutter when you want, and if som awkward background comes up simply release the focus button and you can keep firing without risking losing focus

its quite useful for prefocusing as well, because you can set your focal point using the AF, and then maintain the focal plane whilst still shooting

well, that's something I haven't tried yet. I have both the AF-ON and * buttons reset to AF-OFF so I can immediately go to manual focusing without taking my eye of the subject. I reprogrammed both of them so I don't have to remember which one to press when there's a rare bird in view. Also works great on a bird behind branches where the One Shot AF prefers the branches and I want to focus on the bird! But the key on BBF seems to be getting the initial focus locked on, and that's the problem I am having with AI Servo.

I might try manual focus first to get the AF close to optimal, and then release the back button and let the AI Servo take it from there.

Thanks for the idea.

Orb . . .

 

[Neil Schofield]

My advice on using the AF servo systems on the recent Canons would be to start with case 1 and then work out what's lacking, then adjust the sub settings and then change the case setting as appropriate

I do a lot of BIF in poor light with small fast moving birds with challenging backgrounds with both the 7d2 and 1dx, and have found case 2 usually to be the best

canon do an AF guide PDFs, below is a link to the 5D3 one

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/files/education/technical/inside_canon_eos_5d_mark_iii/AF_guide_EOS5D_MarkIII_eng_January2013.pdf

 

[richardkra]

Not sure what you mean by AF point lock. I have only had my 7Dii for a couple of weeks, but my understanding of AI Servo is that the point will change to track the object you are shooting. And I believe that having the camera not fire if focus is not achieved only applies to One Shot. More experienced users, please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[orbmansony]

Not sure what you mean by AF point lock. I have only had my 7Dii for a couple of weeks, but my understanding of AI Servo is that the point will change to track the object you are shooting. And I believe that having the camera not fire if focus is not achieved only applies to One Shot. More experienced users, please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[mailman88]

You said it and it maybe your problem....having problems with Al Servo with distant birds. You're too far away. Try birds 50 feet or less, check your results.

 

[RogerZoul]

I usually only have this focus issue with small targets, and not when a bird in flight is significantly closer. In some cases shown above, the lens might have been close to correct focus so I got good shots even though it didn't focus. But I don't really understand why some shots are OOF when the AF locks on, or why the shutter fires with AF lock. If there was a way to stop shutter firing when there isn't AF lock, then I could go manual. I thought that setting the 1st and 2nd image priority to focus would do this.

I have had the 7DII for more than one year, so it is out-of-warranty. And I use the camera several times every week, and parting with it would be a problem.

Thanks,

Orb . . .

If you are in ai servo, and set the first and second priority to focus, the shutter will indeed not fire until the camera thinks it has focus. I shot this way for a long time until I decided it didn't help. i find that you can not trust these pics from dpp showing af lock. you get images that say a lock has been achieved but the images is clearly oof. hence, it is useless. i set my camera back to default. what is the difference in not having the camera fire until lock is achieved (but the image is oof) vs just having the first few shots be oof? the former drove me nuts because i want the shutter to fire when I press the button. the latter didn't drive me nuts but i might, or might not get the first few shots.

Are you using BBF? If not, i suggest you look into it. i would keep trying to get your technique down and not look at these images. the 7dm2 and the 400 mm prime can track birds with amazing accuracy once you get it down. i have many shot sequences of much smaller birds all in focus.

What is BFF? I have taken 400,000 photos with my 400mm lens on four Canon camera bodies, and have lots of really good BIF shots. Same techniques always used other than some of the new 7DII settings. The results are just not consistent.

Orb . . .

BBF = back button focus.