6s camera gets annihilated by 4 yr old 808 (at 8mp)

Started Dec 9, 2015 | Discussions
Jostian
Jostian Veteran Member • Posts: 3,585
6s camera gets annihilated by 4 yr old 808 (at 8mp)
3

Since I got my 6s I've been very disappointed by the very high noise reduction in the 6s camera shots, even in bright light (like the Sony's of old) but thought it would be interesting to compare it to my old 808 (at 8mp), all the crops are at 100% with the 808 on the left and the 6s on the right.

the noise reduction just destroys detail (photos from the 6s have so much noise reduction, even in bright light) that detail is obliterated and photos have a waxy watercolor look).

In most of the shots the 808 actually used higher iso's not much but a bit, and yet it blows the 6s out of the water, REALLY hope that Apple sort of the camera processing algorithms in an update.

no detail in the hair at all

roots and stone in the 6s shot look waxy, like a watercolor pic

again the 808 shot just looks so much more natural with more detail in the stalks

even in bright light the 6s shot has unnatural edges to the leaves

shot of my leg, at 100% the 6s has no skin detail at all and hairs are also pretty destroyed

low light shot (no flash)

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Jostian

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The Newtype
The Newtype Forum Member • Posts: 50
Re: 6s camera gets annihilated by 4 yr old 808 (at 8mp)

Thanks for all of the comparison shots.

As has been mentioned time and time again, it truly was amazing what Nokia was able to achieve with the 808. If Microsoft wants to move more premium Lumia devices, they'd be wise to pair the 808 with Windows 10 Mobile.

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ryder78 Contributing Member • Posts: 650
Re: 6s camera gets annihilated by 4 yr old 808 (at 8mp)

The Newtype wrote:

Thanks for all of the comparison shots.

As has been mentioned time and time again, it truly was amazing what Nokia was able to achieve with the 808. If Microsoft wants to move more premium Lumia devices, they'd be wise to pair the 808 with Windows 10 Mobile.

I really wanted the new Microsoft Lumia 950 to replace my Nokia Pureview 808. The initial samples shown in this link (https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2015/10/15/camera-magic-on-microsoft-lumia-950-and-lumia-950-xl/) are outstanding. However, some samples from user reviews that began to show up looked quite terrible.

Is there a smartphone with the latest Android OS (other than the Panasonic CM1) that can give the 808 a run for the money? A phone that has amazing speed and smooth scrolling but comes with the 808's camera quality?

Jostian
OP Jostian Veteran Member • Posts: 3,585
Re: 6s camera gets annihilated by 4 yr old 808 (at 8mp)
1

I really doubt it, there is so much processing going on that the 'natural look' to photos that the 808 did so well is lacking from the modern bunch of smartphones, see here, even the iPhone 6s is poor http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3936194

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Jostian

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Ulric Veteran Member • Posts: 4,558
Re: 6s camera gets annihilated by 4 yr old 808 (at 8mp)
1

ryder78 wrote:

Is there a smartphone with the latest Android OS (other than the Panasonic CM1) that can give the 808 a run for the money? A phone that has amazing speed and smooth scrolling but comes with the 808's camera quality?

No. A camera needs a sensor with a size close to the 808's to be able to compete on image quality, and only the CM1 has that.

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Stevan G Contributing Member • Posts: 596
Re: 6s camera gets annihilated by 4 yr old 808 (at 8mp)

ryder78 wrote:

The Newtype wrote:

Thanks for all of the comparison shots.

As has been mentioned time and time again, it truly was amazing what Nokia was able to achieve with the 808. If Microsoft wants to move more premium Lumia devices, they'd be wise to pair the 808 with Windows 10 Mobile.

I really wanted the new Microsoft Lumia 950 to replace my Nokia Pureview 808. The initial samples shown in this link (https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2015/10/15/camera-magic-on-microsoft-lumia-950-and-lumia-950-xl/) are outstanding. However, some samples from user reviews that began to show up looked quite terrible.

Is there a smartphone with the latest Android OS (other than the Panasonic CM1) that can give the 808 a run for the money? A phone that has amazing speed and smooth scrolling but comes with the 808's camera quality?

nope, but G4 is definitely the best camera beside CM1/808/1020, don't expect wonders though

Jostian
OP Jostian Veteran Member • Posts: 3,585
Re: 6s camera gets annihilated by 4 yr old 808 (at 8mp)

Stevan G wrote:

ryder78 wrote:

The Newtype wrote:

Thanks for all of the comparison shots.

As has been mentioned time and time again, it truly was amazing what Nokia was able to achieve with the 808. If Microsoft wants to move more premium Lumia devices, they'd be wise to pair the 808 with Windows 10 Mobile.

I really wanted the new Microsoft Lumia 950 to replace my Nokia Pureview 808. The initial samples shown in this link (https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2015/10/15/camera-magic-on-microsoft-lumia-950-and-lumia-950-xl/) are outstanding. However, some samples from user reviews that began to show up looked quite terrible.

Is there a smartphone with the latest Android OS (other than the Panasonic CM1) that can give the 808 a run for the money? A phone that has amazing speed and smooth scrolling but comes with the 808's camera quality?

nope, but G4 is definitely the best camera beside CM1/808/1020, don't expect wonders though

yip, the G4 is really quite good, agree with Steven G

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Jostian

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supeyugin1 Contributing Member • Posts: 861
Re: 6s camera gets annihilated by 4 yr old 808 (at 8mp)

Jostian wrote:

Stevan G wrote:

ryder78 wrote:

The Newtype wrote:

Thanks for all of the comparison shots.

As has been mentioned time and time again, it truly was amazing what Nokia was able to achieve with the 808. If Microsoft wants to move more premium Lumia devices, they'd be wise to pair the 808 with Windows 10 Mobile.

I really wanted the new Microsoft Lumia 950 to replace my Nokia Pureview 808. The initial samples shown in this link (https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2015/10/15/camera-magic-on-microsoft-lumia-950-and-lumia-950-xl/) are outstanding. However, some samples from user reviews that began to show up looked quite terrible.

Is there a smartphone with the latest Android OS (other than the Panasonic CM1) that can give the 808 a run for the money? A phone that has amazing speed and smooth scrolling but comes with the 808's camera quality?

nope, but G4 is definitely the best camera beside CM1/808/1020, don't expect wonders though

yip, the G4 is really quite good, agree with Steven G

A few comparisons exist:

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/features/item/20671_Nokia_808_2012_vs_LG_G4_2015_c.php

http://allaboutwindowsphone.com/features/item/20669_Camera_head_to_head_Lumia_9301.php

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M Charles Joseph
M Charles Joseph Senior Member • Posts: 1,318
You're Kidding, Right?

You're kidding, right? In all your examples the iPhones ne shots are better. Better color, more believable. I'll pass on whatever you're smokin.

Jostian
OP Jostian Veteran Member • Posts: 3,585
Re: You're Kidding, Right?

M Charles Joseph wrote:

You're kidding, right? In all your examples the iPhones ne shots are better. Better color, more believable. I'll pass on whatever you're smokin.

your pass is noted, with thanks But seriously, you are a big Apple fan, me too in a way, do you think they can rectify some of the over processing with an iOS update?

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Jostian

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wklee Veteran Member • Posts: 8,735
Re: 6s camera gets annihilated by 4 yr old 808 (at 8mp)

Jostian wrote:

Since I got my 6s I've been very disappointed by the very high noise reduction in the 6s camera shots, even in bright light (like the Sony's of old) but thought it would be interesting to compare it to my old 808 (at 8mp), all the crops are at 100% with the 808 on the left and the 6s on the right.

the noise reduction just destroys detail (photos from the 6s have so much noise reduction, even in bright light) that detail is obliterated and photos have a waxy watercolor look).

In most of the shots the 808 actually used higher iso's not much but a bit, and yet it blows the 6s out of the water, REALLY hope that Apple sort of the camera processing algorithms in an update.

no detail in the hair at all

roots and stone in the 6s shot look waxy, like a watercolor pic

again the 808 shot just looks so much more natural with more detail in the stalks

even in bright light the 6s shot has unnatural edges to the leaves

shot of my leg, at 100% the 6s has no skin detail at all and hairs are also pretty destroyed

low light shot (no flash)

If there is something that needs to be asked, it is: What is the audience viewing the pictures from?

I find from my limited experience that most images look quite good on a 4" screen but sub par on a 20" desktop monitor?

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Stevan G Contributing Member • Posts: 596
Re: You're Kidding, Right?

M Charles Joseph wrote:

You're kidding, right? In all your examples the iPhones ne shots are better. Better color, more believable. I'll pass on whatever you're smokin.

lol

bigley Ling Veteran Member • Posts: 4,448
Re: 6s camera gets annihilated by 4 yr old 808 (at 8mp)

Ulric wrote:

ryder78 wrote:

Is there a smartphone with the latest Android OS (other than the Panasonic CM1) that can give the 808 a run for the money? A phone that has amazing speed and smooth scrolling but comes with the 808's camera quality?

No. A camera needs a sensor with a size close to the 808's to be able to compete on image quality, and only the CM1 has that.

also with the recent price drops of te CM1, suddenly this camera centric smart phone becomes a bit more attractive.

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supeyugin1 Contributing Member • Posts: 861
Re: You're Kidding, Right?

You're kidding, right? In all your examples the iPhones ne shots are better. Better color, more believable. I'll pass on whatever you're smokin.

He is definitely not smoking Apple weed.

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Longer_Shutter New Member • Posts: 3
Re: 6s camera gets annihilated by 4 yr old 808 (at 8mp)

Here's a sample from my Lumia 930. RAW made a hell of a difference here.

Man, get a Lumia 950 and shoot RAW.

I use to do that with my Lumia 930. If you take a good care of it on ACR afterwards and save it to 5 MP, then you should get a pretty close result to what the 808 can do.

Nokia did a great job with the JPEG processing in the 808. I reckon it must be among the best JPEG processing algorithms commercially available. It's even more mature than what anyone gets on regular DSLRs.

Jostian
OP Jostian Veteran Member • Posts: 3,585
Re: 6s camera gets annihilated by 4 yr old 808 (at 8mp)

Longer_Shutter wrote:

Here's a sample from my Lumia 930. RAW made a hell of a difference here.

Man, get a Lumia 950 and shoot RAW.

I use to do that with my Lumia 930. If you take a good care of it on ACR afterwards and save it to 5 MP, then you should get a pretty close result to what the 808 can do.

Nokia did a great job with the JPEG processing in the 808. I reckon it must be among the best JPEG processing algorithms commercially available. It's even more mature than what anyone gets on regular DSLRs.

yes some great detail preservation on the tree trunk etc, not just a smeary mess, as you say, shooting in RAW does help to nice to have that option in a smartphone. Yes Nokia broke the mold with the 808, its jpeg quality is as DSLR like as you'll ever find, not these over-processed waxy rubbish that is the norm today from the current crop of smartphones. Maybe the Samsung S7 with its larger sensor and 12MP will be the beginning of more natural looking smartphone photos, we'll see I guess...

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Jostian

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Longer_Shutter New Member • Posts: 3
Re: 6s camera gets annihilated by 4 yr old 808 (at 8mp)

I don't think the S7 will have a big sensor as advertised. Last week I've read that it will feature a 1micron per pixel sensor, which is less than the sensor featured on the S6.

I am not impressed at all.

It's been said to feature a f.1.7 aperture though.

What I really like about the latest Lumias (besides DNG) is their ability to lock exposure, which is useful for the exposure-to-the-right technique.

And regarding DNG, I think the best benefit is the opportunity to set a lower contrast picture profile.

Here's a couple more random shots. I guess that the DNG processed shots can get close to the 808 quality.

P.S.: I don't know why, but all my shots are soft and not detailed at all when I see then on DPReview's window. Not like what I see on my PC.

Trick kind of shot. High contrast scene that usually puts phones' JPG processing on their knees. It's also a shot I took using the expose-to-the-right technique. There's a trade-off between noise on the shadows and detail recover tough. This is a small sensor after all.

Adjusted to have low noise and yet great detail. I could have lowered the luma noise even further.

Again, it's difficult to get rid of the noise on dark areas after trying to recover detail out of them.

bigley Ling Veteran Member • Posts: 4,448
Re: 6s camera gets annihilated by 4 yr old 808 (at 8mp)

Longer_Shutter wrote:

I don't think the S7 will have a big sensor as advertised. Last week I've read that it will feature a 1micron per pixel sensor, which is less than the sensor featured on the S6.

I am not impressed at all.

It's been said to feature a f.1.7 aperture though.

What I really like about the latest Lumias (besides DNG) is their ability to lock exposure, which is useful for the exposure-to-the-right technique.

And regarding DNG, I think the best benefit is the opportunity to set a lower contrast picture profile.

Here's a couple more random shots. I guess that the DNG processed shots can get close to the 808 quality.

P.S.: I don't know why, but all my shots are soft and not detailed at all when I see then on DPReview's window. Not like what I see on my PC.

Trick kind of shot. High contrast scene that usually puts phones' JPG processing on their knees. It's also a shot I took using the expose-to-the-right technique. There's a trade-off between noise on the shadows and detail recover tough. This is a small sensor after all.

Adjusted to have low noise and yet great detail. I could have lowered the luma noise even further.

Again, it's difficult to get rid of the noise on dark areas after trying to recover detail out of them.

not bad. not bad at all enjoying seeing your DNG to JPG creations.

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Jostian
OP Jostian Veteran Member • Posts: 3,585
Re: 6s camera gets annihilated by 4 yr old 808 (at 8mp)

Great pix, don't know why the obsession with tiny sensors?? surely the cost of bigger sensors is no longer prohibitive?? I really hope you are wrong about the S7 sensor...

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Jostian

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markyboy81 Senior Member • Posts: 2,287
Re: 6s camera gets annihilated by 4 yr old 808 (at 8mp)

Jostian wrote:

Great pix, don't know why the obsession with tiny sensors?? surely the cost of bigger sensors is no longer prohibitive?? I really hope you are wrong about the S7 sensor...

I don't understand this either, but the 'cost' is probably more down to the camera bulge than financial cost.  There is an obsession around making the slimmest phone ever - Jonny Ive has publicly says he hates the 'bulge' and it looks like Samsung have slimmed it down in the S7, although overall that phone is thicker.

Personally I don't find the camera bulge that offensive.

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