British Airways Competition - ba.com/inspireus

Started Feb 25, 2015 | Discussions
Dominic G Smith Regular Member • Posts: 259
British Airways Competition - ba.com/inspireus

Just saw this competition advertised in todays Metro. Looks good doesn't it.

Then you read the Terms and Conditions. Most are fair and reasonable regarding prize award, acceptance, travel arrangements etc. But then I came across this little beauty.

By entering the competition you assign to BA the complete copyright and all other rights in or to any photograph or the content contained within any entry, which shall be for the full period of copyright. In addition, upon request you will provide BA a royalty-free, irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive license to use, reproduce, modify, publish, create derivative works from, and display such photograph or make use of the content contained within any entry in whole or in part, on a worldwide basis, and to incorporate it into other materials, in any form, media or technology now known or later developed, including for promotional or marketing purposes. If requested, the entrant will sign any documentation that may be required for BA or its designees to make use of the non-exclusive rights the entrant is granting, to use the entry or the content contained therein.

No perhaps I'm miss reading this, but in the first line of the paragraph they appear to want you to assign BA the copyright to the image, but later they talk about 'the non exclusive rights the entrant is granting.'

Dominic G Smith

www.bridalimage.co.uk

npires
npires Senior Member • Posts: 1,738
Re: British Airways Competition - ba.com/inspireus

They basically want to own it in exchange for the treats. That basically sums it up.. right?

 npires's gear list:npires's gear list
Sony RX100 III Sony Alpha NEX-5 Sony a7 II Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Sony FE 70-200 F4 +3 more
steephill Veteran Member • Posts: 9,861
No, far worse
1

If I won I would consider giving away all rights a fair deal but BA want the rights to all entries. Not a fair deal at all.

-- hide signature --

Steve

www.pbase.com/steephill

npires
npires Senior Member • Posts: 1,738
Re: No, far worse

steephill wrote:

If I won I would consider giving away all rights a fair deal but BA want the rights to all entries. Not a fair deal at all.

Oh so anything that's submitted... that's taking the pee a bit then isn't it. Essentially making a big library for free.

When you consider the amount of submissions they'll get and those that won't even win.

Fine if you win. It's like going for a job interview having to do the assessment building something they say thanks no thanks but use your work and sell it on as their own.

You're left unemployed and they've profited and made money off you with no gratitude.
Terrible. Quite underhanded.... is this common in such competitions? (you can tell I don't enter many)

 npires's gear list:npires's gear list
Sony RX100 III Sony Alpha NEX-5 Sony a7 II Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Sony FE 70-200 F4 +3 more
pavi1 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,868
Re: British Airways Competition - ba.com/inspireus
1

I am not sure I have ever seen a photo contest without similar language in their agreement.
--
Everything happens for a reason. #1 reason: poor planning
WSSA #44

OP Dominic G Smith Regular Member • Posts: 259
Re: British Airways Competition - ba.com/inspireus
1

I have heard of competitions with this type of clause before, but usually the industry kicks up enough of a fuss that the terms are changed to be more fair an reasonable. For a winning entry I would consider giving unlimited commercial use, but I would never hand away my copyright unless the payment was SIGNIFICANT and a 3 day trip to e.g. Barcelona is certainly not significant. I had intended to email BA last night re this but did not get the chance. I will however raise it with them and also try an enlist the help of Amateur Photographer magazine who have dealt with this kind of thing before. I know the competition is aimed at Amateurs, but to give away your copyright for merely entering a competion is blatantly unfair.

npires
npires Senior Member • Posts: 1,738
Re: British Airways Competition - ba.com/inspireus

Dominic G Smith wrote:

I have heard of competitions with this type of clause before, but usually the industry kicks up enough of a fuss that the terms are changed to be more fair an reasonable. For a winning entry I would consider giving unlimited commercial use, but I would never hand away my copyright unless the payment was SIGNIFICANT and a 3 day trip to e.g. Barcelona is certainly not significant. I had intended to email BA last night re this but did not get the chance. I will however raise it with them and also try an enlist the help of Amateur Photographer magazine who have dealt with this kind of thing before. I know the competition is aimed at Amateurs, but to give away your copyright for merely entering a competion is blatantly unfair.

Do it! would love to know the outcome.

 npires's gear list:npires's gear list
Sony RX100 III Sony Alpha NEX-5 Sony a7 II Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Sony FE 70-200 F4 +3 more
Hen3ry
Hen3ry Forum Pro • Posts: 18,218
It's a total rip-off

npires wrote:

steephill wrote:

If I won I would consider giving away all rights a fair deal but BA want the rights to all entries. Not a fair deal at all.

Oh so anything that's submitted... that's taking the pee a bit then isn't it. Essentially making a big library for free.

When you consider the amount of submissions they'll get and those that won't even win.

Fine if you win. It's like going for a job interview having to do the assessment building something they say thanks no thanks but use your work and sell it on as their own.

You're left unemployed and they've profited and made money off you with no gratitude.
Terrible. Quite underhanded.... is this common in such competitions? (you can tell I don't enter many)

I was going to add further comment, but what more is there to say?

Corporations have been trying this kind of thing on for years. I can remember people campaigning against this stuff half a century ago.

-- hide signature --

Geoffrey Heard
Down and out in Rabaul in the South Pacific
http://rabaulpng.com/we-are-all-traveling-throug/i-waited-51-years-for-tavur.html

 Hen3ry's gear list:Hen3ry's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Panasonic G85 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm F4.0-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45mm F1.8 Panasonic Lumix G X Vario PZ 45-175mm F4.0-5.6 ASPH OIS +7 more
Pantyhose Bandit
Pantyhose Bandit Senior Member • Posts: 1,387
hang on...

The prize is 500,000 avios or using their calculator, 25 flights at 20,000 each across the Atlantic. Basically that's free flights for life.

And you're complaining? Sheesh!
--
Http://www.schoolbushome.blogspot.com
http://Www.britishphotography.blogspot.com
http://Www.tehisp.blogspot.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPsnPXWkbrE
Photography 101: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHjz80NlYWN86klVhVAsonhDzpSRAtDf4
http://Www.twitter.com/Valkyrie_2

 Pantyhose Bandit's gear list:Pantyhose Bandit's gear list
Leica S2 Leica APO-Summicron-M 50mm f/2 ASPH Brother MFC-J6910dw Echo One File Juicer Vertu Ti +2 more
npires
npires Senior Member • Posts: 1,738
Re: hang on...

Pantyhose Bandit wrote:

The prize is 500,000 avios or using their calculator, 25 flights at 20,000 each across the Atlantic. Basically that's free flights for life.

And you're complaining? Sheesh!
--
Http://www.schoolbushome.blogspot.com
http://Www.britishphotography.blogspot.com
http://Www.tehisp.blogspot.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPsnPXWkbrE
Photography 101: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHjz80NlYWN86klVhVAsonhDzpSRAtDf4
http://Www.twitter.com/Valkyrie_2

If you win! that is...

 npires's gear list:npires's gear list
Sony RX100 III Sony Alpha NEX-5 Sony a7 II Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Sony FE 70-200 F4 +3 more
Pantyhose Bandit
Pantyhose Bandit Senior Member • Posts: 1,387
Re: hang on...

So what? In the unlikely event of ba using a nonwinning photo then the point could be raised under unreasonable contracts in the uk courts. Having said that, I really don't expect the vast majority of entrants to be in the business of making money from their photos and those that are will be recycling images that didn't sell, on the off chance of gaining a crumb or two.

 Pantyhose Bandit's gear list:Pantyhose Bandit's gear list
Leica S2 Leica APO-Summicron-M 50mm f/2 ASPH Brother MFC-J6910dw Echo One File Juicer Vertu Ti +2 more
npires
npires Senior Member • Posts: 1,738
Re: hang on...

Maybe so but it's the principle.

Are you saying you'd be happy if you didn't win and they used an image you submitted which was pretty damn good and they plastered it everywhere, on television etc... and you didn't even get any mention or exposure?

Extreme case but it could happen. Credit where it's due basically. There's no mention of that would even happen.

 npires's gear list:npires's gear list
Sony RX100 III Sony Alpha NEX-5 Sony a7 II Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Sony FE 70-200 F4 +3 more
Pantyhose Bandit
Pantyhose Bandit Senior Member • Posts: 1,387
Re: hang on...

npires wrote:

Maybe so but it's the principle.

Are you saying you'd be happy if you didn't win and they used an image you submitted which was pretty damn good and they plastered it everywhere, on television etc... and you didn't even get any mention or exposure?

Extreme case but it could happen. Credit where it's due basically. There's no mention of that would even happen.

Credit is pretty much worthless. I'd be really happy to keep my real name out of the media forever.

 Pantyhose Bandit's gear list:Pantyhose Bandit's gear list
Leica S2 Leica APO-Summicron-M 50mm f/2 ASPH Brother MFC-J6910dw Echo One File Juicer Vertu Ti +2 more
steephill Veteran Member • Posts: 9,861
Don't know what you are looking at
1

From the BA Inspire Us website page :-

The prize comprises of a trip to one of 10 European destinations departing from London Gatwick of a minimum of 3 nights. The prize includes a pair of Euro Traveller (Economy) return flights from London Gatwick plus a minimum of three night’s accommodation for two adults sharing a double room, on a bed and breakfast basis. The prize also comprises a tutorial with a professional photographer which will take place on the first full day of the trip. A per diem to cover meal expenses and sundries will also be paid.

So nothing like free flights for life or even 500,000 recently devalued Avois points on offer here.

-- hide signature --

Steve
www.pbase.com/steephill

OP Dominic G Smith Regular Member • Posts: 259
Re: Don't know what you are looking at
1

steephill wrote:

From the BA Inspire Us website page :-

The prize comprises of a trip to one of 10 European destinations departing from London Gatwick of a minimum of 3 nights. The prize includes a pair of Euro Traveller (Economy) return flights from London Gatwick plus a minimum of three night’s accommodation for two adults sharing a double room, on a bed and breakfast basis. The prize also comprises a tutorial with a professional photographer which will take place on the first full day of the trip. A per diem to cover meal expenses and sundries will also be paid.

So nothing like free flights for life or even 500,000 recently devalued Avois points on offer here.

Eh! I agree with Steve. If you win you get a 3 day trip and YOU have to do all of the work. Fine, not a problem as that is the prize. My objection is to the fact that every ENTRY is expected to give up their copy right to the photo they enter forever with no payback or reward.

I have emailed BA organisers but I am still waiting on a response.

Will let you know what they say if they EVER get back to me.

Dominic G Smith

www.bridalimage.co.uk

Andy Cam Regular Member • Posts: 463
Fair enough...?

Pantyhose Bandit wrote:

The prize is 500,000 avios or using their calculator, 25 flights at 20,000 each across the Atlantic. Basically that's free flights for life.

And you're complaining? Sheesh!

Pantyhose Muppet - Please, along with all the idiots who sign up to this sort of rights grab,

Will you come and work for my company?

I won't pay any of you a dime. BUT once a year I will select the hardest worker and give them a very generous prize (which will consist of a small cut of the profits I made from all the combined unpaid hard work)

Surely you must think this is fair?

Tequila MockingjayBird
Tequila MockingjayBird Senior Member • Posts: 4,212
Re: British Airways Competition - ba.com/inspireus

Dominic G Smith wrote:

Just saw this competition advertised in todays Metro. Looks good doesn't it.

Then you read the Terms and Conditions. Most are fair and reasonable regarding prize award, acceptance, travel arrangements etc. But then I came across this little beauty.

By entering the competition you assign to BA the complete copyright and all other rights in or to any photograph or the content contained within any entry, which shall be for the full period of copyright. In addition, upon request you will provide BA a royalty-free, irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive license to use, reproduce, modify, publish, create derivative works from, and display such photograph or make use of the content contained within any entry in whole or in part, on a worldwide basis, and to incorporate it into other materials, in any form, media or technology now known or later developed, including for promotional or marketing purposes. If requested, the entrant will sign any documentation that may be required for BA or its designees to make use of the non-exclusive rights the entrant is granting, to use the entry or the content contained therein.

No perhaps I'm miss reading this, but in the first line of the paragraph they appear to want you to assign BA the copyright to the image, but later they talk about 'the non exclusive rights the entrant is granting.'

Dominic G Smith

www.bridalimage.co.uk

First:

You are giving away photograph or the content contained within any entry (of yours)

Second:

You are giving away derivative rights.

 Tequila MockingjayBird's gear list:Tequila MockingjayBird's gear list
Sony SLT-A65 Sony a77 II Sony a99 II Sony 70-200mm F2.8 G Sony 85mm F1.4 ZA Carl Zeiss Planar T* +1 more
OP Dominic G Smith Regular Member • Posts: 259
Re: Fair enough...?

Andy Cam wrote:

Pantyhose Bandit wrote:

The prize is 500,000 avios or using their calculator, 25 flights at 20,000 each across the Atlantic. Basically that's free flights for life.

And you're complaining? Sheesh!

Pantyhose Muppet - Please, along with all the idiots who sign up to this sort of rights grab,

Will you come and work for my company?

I won't pay any of you a dime. BUT once a year I will select the hardest worker and give them a very generous prize (which will consist of a small cut of the profits I made from all the combined unpaid hard work)

Surely you must think this is fair?

Andy Cam

They are not offering free air miles, simply a 3 day break in a destination of their choice where they will then grab all of the pics you have taken and if any of then are any good they use them in their brochures/publicity campaigns.

But power to the people. They have now changed their conditions and the now read as follows.

"You will retain the copyright in the photographs you submit to BA at the time of entering into this competition.

By entering the competition you agree that BA has the non-exclusive right to use your photograph (or any part of it) and all other content included in your entry for the purpose of judging the submission in accordance with the terms of this competition. Our use may include reproducing the image, sending it to our judges, uploading it to a database, displaying and/or printing it.

In addition, by entering the competition you hereby grant, if you are selected as a winner of the competition, BA the worldwide rights to use, reproduce, upload to a database, modify, publish, print, create derivative works from, distribute and/or display your photograph (or any part of it) in any form and on any media or technology including for advertising, marketing and promotional purposes, such as (without limitation): (a) on www.ba.com; and (b) in brochures and related materials; and (c) in advertising features run by our media partners, including TimeOut and the Telegraph. You agree that you may not withdraw these rights, that no fees or royalties will be payable to you for the exercise of these rights, and that BA may permit any of its third party partners to exercise these rights on our behalf."

That is all I wanted them to do. They have also admitted that the competition is aimed at 'Amateur Photographers' and I get the feeling that they did not appreciate that some of us Amateur Photographers are actually fairly bright and can read and understand the conditions of entry.

So if you want to enter you have 3 days to do so safe in the knowledge that you still retain the copyright to your photographs. The conditions for the winning entries are a bit stiff, but at least you will get a free holiday from BA.

This was also commented on a few other forums, so perhaps their was a bit of as ground swell that made them change their mind.

e.g. http://artists-bill-of-rights.org/competition-lists/rights-off-list/british-airways-inspire-us/

Dominic G Smith M. Sc.

www.bridalimage.co.uk

steephill Veteran Member • Posts: 9,861
That's much more sensible

The new rules are a big improvement.

-- hide signature --

Steve

www.pbase.com/steephill

OP Dominic G Smith Regular Member • Posts: 259
Re: British Airways Competition - ba.com/inspireus

Tequila

Yes, that was what the original rules stated.

The amended rules say that you still own the copyright but that they can print the image for judging purposes.

Even the winners do not have to give away their copyright in exchange for a short 3 day holiday plus some professional tuition.

Sure, they allow BA to reproduce their image as they wish, but it is still theirs, the reward is the holiday and they can enter the photo into other competitions if they want to.

Dominic G Smith

www.bridalimage.co.uk

Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads