Poor 810 sales

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Kabe Luna
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Re: Poor 810 sales
In reply to Shotcents, 1 month ago

Hard to believe any professional photographers rely so much on Nikon Capture that lack of support would factor into the decision to invest in a new camera or not.

Shotcents wrote:

jadot wrote:

Thom Hogan suggests that Nikon aren't selling out of D810s because of the workflow support etc.

He might have a point, and his numbers might be right but if he stopped whining on about Nikon's management of this and that for a minute he might be able to see what's right there in front of us all.

A lot of people figured out that they didn't need a D800. A couple of years later, those Nikon users have realised that justifying the expense of regularly 'upgrading' for the sake of it is getting harder to swallow. Technically speaking the D810 is probably up there with best DSLRs on the market today, but it's also easier to decide not to jump into the next iteration of camera when the one you've already got is 99% going to continue to hit the high notes.

Also, a lot of people have moved from DSLRs to mirror-less Systems, specifically Fuji. Why? Because they're much improved and a lot has changed in this market since the D800 was released. It's liberated a lot of photographers I know. People who used to be devoted Nikon or Canon photographers have in some numbers moved on, un phased, un excited, and unimpressed that there is a new DSLR to blow another 3k on.

it may not be the whole story, but there has been a seismic shift in the pro-sumer and pro markets, particularly the weddings and lifestyle end of things, and that shift has been towards smaller, lighter, and very capable CSCs.

Personally, I'd love a D810, but I don't need one any more. It would be an expensive toy, and my cameras really have to earn their keep. It might be worth hiring one for the studio once in a while, but not a regular thing.

2 years ago I would have bought one on release but I'll pass on this today because I have better options for the kind of photography I do in 2014.

I'm not the only one.

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examples of my photography at www.alexanderleaman.co.uk

I've been working with the new Nikon software and it's not wonderful. In some respects, with my NX-2 not working with D810 NEf files, I DO feel like Nikon released the camera without proper support.

I shot all week for a client and the D810 sits in the box. The D800 is on the tripod making money.

I know the software will catch up and I'll adjust, but Nikon was stupid to not keep NX2 working until the new software was more refined. Some of my friends bought the D810 and some did not. The ones who didn't cite the loss of NX-2 as part of their reasoning for taking a pass for know.

The D810 is available pretty much everywhere. Amazon will put one on your doorstep in 24 hours.

Robert

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Cliff Fujii
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Re: Poor 810 sales
In reply to jadot, 1 month ago

The sales trends don't suggest that people are abandoning DSLR cameras in favor of mirrorless in Europe and the US. It looks like mirrorless sales are flat while DSLR sales were declining in the beginning of 2013 and seem to be on a recovering trend by the end of 2013. That tells me that the camera buying public tried mirrorless cameras (see the spike) and decided it was not for them.

http://www.43rumors.com/camera-slaes-history-from-2011-till-today-mirrorless-hype-is-over-dslr-rules/comment-page-1/

Fujifilm, Olympus, and Panasonic are doing poorly in camera sales. In fact, Panasonic has sold off 1/2 of it's photo products division to an Israeli company.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/photography/credit-suisse-analyst-claims-panasonic-fujifilm-olympus-will-not-survive/#!bxqUri

Credit Suisse's imaging analyst is predicting that one of the above three will be the sole survivor of the coming shakeout. It will probably be the company that does best in Asia as that is where mirrorless cameras are doing the best.

To me, It seems like Nikon and Canon are treading water until the shakeout has run it's course. After that I don't see a whole lot of innovation coming from any of the survivors because the money simply will not be there. The real winner here is smartphone photography. I hear increasing calls that smartphone images are "good enough" for what they plan to use them for. I believe that there will be growth in the camera systems in smartphones and that they will lead the way in innovation but not the kind that traditional photographers are used to. The integration between smartphone images and movies and social media will continue to march forward at the expense of traditional photography. There will be the hold outs of course but they will not represent the profit dollars that the big two are used to getting unless there is a rise in cost which we have seen already (how many complaints of price gouging by the Nikon on the Df have we heard).

http://www.businessinsider.com/mirrorless-camera-sales-disappoint-2013-12

I own an iPhone but I'm not on social media (the Russian hackers didn't get me yet) so the innovations in smartphone photography don't apply to me. I just purchased a D810 and sold my D800. The very fact I was able to get $1500 for an early model D800 indicates that there is still life in the secondary market.

Cliff

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Cliff Fujii
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Re: Good 810 sales
In reply to tomboy, 1 month ago

Unfortunately, not way ahead in IQ.

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Cliff Fujii
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Re: Poor 810 sales - not where I am
In reply to Jabs767, 1 month ago

different sensor.  Since NEFs are just a RAW dump of the sensor, they would have to create a new image map to work with CNX2.  We have known that Nikon was going to drop CNX2, why didn't we all make other arrangements when purchasing a D810.  I personally have uninstalled CNX2 and use mostly VNX2 and CNX-D.  I stopped doing RAW file alterations last year and my workflow now comprises of converting the NEFs that need alteration into TIFFs.

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Cliff Fujii
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Re: Poor 810 sales - not where I am
In reply to PatrickP, 1 month ago

PatrickP wrote:

All sorts of mirrorless cameras are slowly taking sales away from Nikon. For FX shooters, at present most of the mirrorless are employed as a secondary camera complimenting Nikon FX, would they one day be good enough to be the primary camera for all but the most hardcore pros?

Do you have any citations for the above statement (and no, "everybody knows that" doesn't count). From what I read, mirrorless camera sales in 2011, 2012, and 2013 were flat (in the US and Europe). I'm not sure that the trend will change. If mirrorless cameras were taking sales away from Nikon and Canon, that would show up on a CIPA chart. Just the opposite is happening. That's why the pundits were predicting that the mirrorless camera manufacturers are about to give up on the Western World and for companies like Olympus and Panasonic, that could be serious. Panasonic has sold off 1/2 of it's photo products division to another company. I'm hoping to see an upturn in sales this year but it doesn't look like that will happen especially in the very important fourth quarter.

I have two FX cameras (D810 and Df). I also have a V3 because I firmly believe that Nikon is using the Vx platform to test out it's ideas for mirrorless ILCs. That's more than Canon is doing but my V3 is definitely not a backup to my FX bodies. I use the V3 for snapshots and taking pictures of Aunt Minnie in the back yard.

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Volksgti81
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Re: Good 810 sales
In reply to Oldan New, 1 month ago

A7R from Sony has the resolution. Yes mirrorless is the future but their AF isn't up to DSLR standards.

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Osvaldo Cristo
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Really? It explains why I cannot find one to buy. Sold out every place...
In reply to jadot, 1 month ago

jadot wrote:

[...] Nikon aren't selling out of D810s because of the workflow support etc.

Really? It "explains" why I cannot find one to buy. Sold out every place I looked for...

Regards,

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Cliff Fujii
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Re: Poor 810 sales
In reply to Jones R, 1 month ago

Does BestBuy in Canada have the D810?  I've heard that in the US, BestBuy does have D810 in stock.

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Cliff Fujii
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Re: Invisible seismic shift?
In reply to PerL, 1 month ago

A couple of years ago I saw a lot of J1 cameras at Walt Disney World.  A friend of mine with young kids bought one also.  He was mostly a P&S kind of guy but he said that the J1 was the only small camera that could keep up with his kids.  I seem to hear a lot of that when I travel.  He only has one lens on the camera but until he dropped it, he used it a lot.  Now that his kids are older, he has a Canon P&S.

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Cliff Fujii
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Re: In seven years
In reply to rhlpetrus, 1 month ago

If sales trends continue, two of the three 4/3 camera manufacturers will be out of the camera business according to Credit Suisse.  The sales volume in mirrorless can't support three major vendors.

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brianric
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Re: Really? It explains why I cannot find one to buy. Sold out every place...
In reply to Osvaldo Cristo, 1 month ago

Osvaldo Cristo wrote:

jadot wrote:

[...] Nikon aren't selling out of D810s because of the workflow support etc.

Really? It "explains" why I cannot find one to buy. Sold out every place I looked for...

Regards,

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Try Amazon or Roberts.

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Cliff Fujii
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Re: In seven years
In reply to chuxter, 1 month ago

Sony already has.  I don't see a lot of sales there also.

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Cliff Fujii
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Re: See this: ugly sales figures Re: Invisible seismic shift?
In reply to rhlpetrus, 1 month ago

According to CIPA, this trend has been going on for three years.

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Cliff

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frank-in-toronto
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Re: See this: ugly sales figures Re: Invisible seismic shift?
In reply to Cliff Fujii, 1 month ago

just to summarize, i hardly believe that the d810 and the sony a7r appeal to the same buyers.  and if, which i doubt, d810 sales are slow, well, why not? the d600,d800,d610 series must have satisfied a lot of photogs.  these are high end bodies with limited applicability.

i would buy one if i had extra money.

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Rick Knepper
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May also spike if
In reply to l_d_allan, 1 month ago

Canon's hi-rez challenger comes to market in a 1 series body at 1 series prices, comes to market with the "same ol' same" DR, less pixels than a Nikon/Sony or some combination of the three.

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Cliff Fujii
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Re: See this: ugly sales figures Re: Invisible seismic shift?
In reply to frank-in-toronto, 1 month ago

I'm not so shure.  The D810 appeals to the professional photographers because of it's ergonomics.  The Sony A series is more menu dependent which turns professionals off.  Also slow AF doesn't help either.  I personally think a camera about the size of the Df is about as small as I want to get.

According to CIPA sales figures, mirrorless cameras are loosing out in the sales market.  Even giants like Panasonic are taking measures to protect themselves from these poor sales figures.  You would think that the Sony A series would up the figures (even with fire sales prices) but that has not shown to be happening yet.  The year's not over so there is still time for sales to recover especially in the important fourth quarter.

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Cliff

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chuxter
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Re: In seven years
In reply to Cliff Fujii, 1 month ago

Cliff Fujii wrote:

Sony already has. I don't see a lot of sales there also.

The Sony A7S isn't a high-end camera. It only costs $2500; that's in the lower-middle. A high end camera costs around $7000. But to do a mirror-less that bests all the current high-end mirror cameras, it's gonna take some effort. That effort will run the price up above the cost of a mirror camera. If it doesn't work better than the D4x and the 1Dx, why bother?

On paper, the mirror-less concept should be capable of better images and be easier for photographers to use. But so far, nobody has set out to actually produce that super camera. Of course, the first models will be terribly expensive, but if they are REALLY better, the pros can and will buy them. If the pros don't buy into this design, then it's never gonna happen the other way.

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jcvjcvjcvjcv
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Mirror-less
In reply to chuxter, 1 month ago

Isn't the whole point about mirror-less the weight and size decrease while maintaining the less changeability?

But once you do use that, and have multiple lenses; the weight difference over the entire kit isn't that much for a decent pentaprism and mirror...

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David314
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other theoretical advantages
In reply to jcvjcvjcvjcv, 1 month ago

jcvjcvjcvjcv wrote:

Isn't the whole point about mirror-less the weight and size decrease while maintaining the less changeability?

But once you do use that, and have multiple lenses; the weight difference over the entire kit isn't that much for a decent pentaprism and mirror...

without a mirror you get, no mirror shake

you get a viewfinder decoupled from the sensor size or sensor crop -

different magnifications

on sensor focus so no mis alignment issues

in theory, since the focus sensors are not interrupted by the mirror, you could better autofocus

and no mirror blackout

faster fps

live histogram

video

the possibility of focus peaking and other augmented parameters - zebras for exposure

exposure simulation

white balance simulation

a simpler camera mechanically -

throw in an electronic global shutter and the camera would be much simpler to manufacture

have essentially unlimited flash sync without some of the issues at high speed with two curtain shutters

probably cheaper and more reliable

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jcvjcvjcvjcv
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Re: other theoretical advantages
In reply to David314, 1 month ago

David314 wrote:

jcvjcvjcvjcv wrote:

Isn't the whole point about mirror-less the weight and size decrease while maintaining the less changeability?

But once you do use that, and have multiple lenses; the weight difference over the entire kit isn't that much for a decent pentaprism and mirror...

without a mirror you get, no mirror shake

For that you have the option to move mirror separately. At least on my D300. For most shots it's a non-issue

you get a viewfinder decoupled from the sensor size or sensor crop -

A very crappy one

different magnifications

Live view on DSLRs do the same

on sensor focus so no mis alignment issues

no what?

in theory, since the focus sensors are not interrupted by the mirror, you could better autofocus

Depends on how you see 'better'

and no mirror blackout

True, but the same could be done with live view

faster fps

That too *could* be done with an SLR.

live histogram

video

the possibility of focus peaking and other augmented parameters - zebras for exposure

exposure simulation

white balance simulation

Isn't that already available with live view on some DSLRs?

a simpler camera mechanically -

Yes

throw in an electronic global shutter and the camera would be much simpler to manufacture

have essentially unlimited flash sync without some of the issues at high speed with two curtain shutters

probably cheaper and more reliable

But without a real "live" view and therefore always with a lag between what you see and what's happening in front of you.

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