Finally a nail in the Leica coffin

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
Ron A 19
Forum MemberPosts: 52Gear list
Like?
Finally a nail in the Leica coffin
3 months ago

These comparisons are few and far between. Seems to me the Leica lenses are just not as good as they claim they are. Also, that Sony 55 is incredibly sharp and has less noisy bokeh.

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2014/06/19/crazy-comparison-sony-a7s-551-8-vs-leica-m-240-50-apo/

 Ron A 19's gear list:Ron A 19's gear list
Canon EOS 6D Canon EF 40mm f/2.8 STM
quezra
Senior MemberPosts: 2,344Gear list
Like?
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin
In reply to Ron A 19, 3 months ago

The FE55/1.8 performs even better on a 36MP A7R... or for that matter the A7. A7S in daylight... honestly who cares?

The writing has been on the wall for Leica for some time.  Now they can only bank on myth and legend, digital technology has surpassed them and the Internet lets everyone know instantly.

 quezra's gear list:quezra's gear list
Sony Alpha 7 Sony FE 28-70mm F3.5-5.6 OSS Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Sony Alpha NEX-5N Sigma 19mm F2.8 EX DN +7 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Just another Canon shooter
Senior MemberPosts: 2,831Gear list
Like?
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin
In reply to Ron A 19, 3 months ago

The Leica bokeh is awful. In all fairness, the Leica is focused a bit farther, pushing the bokeh more.

The Leica combo has much better resolution and JPEG rendering. I can actually read the copyright sign, no obvious sharpening artifacts.

I am not buying either.

 Just another Canon shooter's gear list:Just another Canon shooter's gear list
Samsung Galaxy S III
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Ontario Gone
Senior MemberPosts: 3,003Gear list
Like?
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin
In reply to quezra, 3 months ago

quezra wrote:

The FE55/1.8 performs even better on a 36MP A7R... or for that matter the A7. A7S in daylight... honestly who cares?

The writing has been on the wall for Leica for some time. Now they can only bank on myth and legend, digital technology has surpassed them and the Internet lets everyone know instantly.

Odd, one of the best lenses for the MFT system is the Leica designed PL25 F1.4. The irony here is, it doesn't look like Zeiss is doing anything to boost the reputation of the E mount either. Hmm.

-- hide signature --

"Run to the light, Carol Anne. Run as fast as you can!"

 Ontario Gone's gear list:Ontario Gone's gear list
Nikon D7000 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.8G
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
samfan
Contributing MemberPosts: 928Gear list
Like?
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin
In reply to quezra, 3 months ago

So, which of the other current digital rangefinder cameras would you recommend?

Oh right, there aren't any.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
quezra
Senior MemberPosts: 2,344Gear list
Like?
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin
In reply to Ontario Gone, 3 months ago

Ontario Gone wrote:

quezra wrote:

The FE55/1.8 performs even better on a 36MP A7R... or for that matter the A7. A7S in daylight... honestly who cares?

The writing has been on the wall for Leica for some time. Now they can only bank on myth and legend, digital technology has surpassed them and the Internet lets everyone know instantly.

Odd, one of the best lenses for the MFT system is the Leica designed PL25 F1.4. The irony here is, it doesn't look like Zeiss is doing anything to boost the reputation of the E mount either. Hmm.

-- hide signature --

"Run to the light, Carol Anne. Run as fast as you can!"

I have no idea what point you're trying to make here.

 quezra's gear list:quezra's gear list
Sony Alpha 7 Sony FE 28-70mm F3.5-5.6 OSS Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Sony Alpha NEX-5N Sigma 19mm F2.8 EX DN +7 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
quezra
Senior MemberPosts: 2,344Gear list
Like?
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin
In reply to samfan, 3 months ago

samfan wrote:

So, which of the other current digital rangefinder cameras would you recommend?

Oh right, there aren't any.

Ah so form is more important than function for you. Then enjoy blowing your $10k on form!

 quezra's gear list:quezra's gear list
Sony Alpha 7 Sony FE 28-70mm F3.5-5.6 OSS Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Sony Alpha NEX-5N Sigma 19mm F2.8 EX DN +7 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
neil holmes
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,011
Like?
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin
In reply to Ron A 19, 3 months ago

Ron A 19 wrote:

These comparisons are few and far between. Seems to me the Leica lenses are just not as good as they claim they are. Also, that Sony 55 is incredibly sharp and has less noisy bokeh.

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2014/06/19/crazy-comparison-sony-a7s-551-8-vs-leica-m-240-50-apo/

Disagree, I think the Leica IS as good as they say......but then I think they are massively overpriced and always have been.

The Sony is better though to my eyes and at a much cheaper price.

Leica is not meant for the likes of me ....it is for people who have the money and think nothing of spending a couple of hundred dollars on a meal or bottle of wine ETC.

The Leica camera and lens will be worth a lot more than the Sony in 5 years time though.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
FrancoD
Regular MemberPosts: 377
Like?
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin
In reply to Ron A 19, 3 months ago

how is one photo going to sink a company like Leica ?

Photography isn't just about sharpness,bokeh, resolution and all of that, if you are not just a pixel peeping geek.

There is such a thing as enjoying the experience so if one prefers to hold, look through and shoot with a particular camera (could be a Leica...) that is the camera that one should use.

No, I don't own a Leica.

Ask a Maserati (whatever...) driver why he drives that car.

It isn't about fuel consumption or speed , it's the joy of driving that particular car.

No, I don't own a Maserati.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
JimKasson
Contributing MemberPosts: 664Gear list
Like?
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin
In reply to Ron A 19, 3 months ago

Ron A 19 wrote:

These comparisons are few and far between. Seems to me the Leica lenses are just not as good as they claim they are. Also, that Sony 55 is incredibly sharp and has less noisy bokeh.

I'm not sure it makes sense to do the comparison with cameras that are a factor of 1.414 (or 2.0, depending on how you count) apart in resolution. Here's a test of the Leica 50mm f/1.4 Summilux on a Leica M240 vs the Zony 55mm f/1.8 on a similar-resolution Sony a7:

http://blog.kasson.com/?p=5019

It's not against the 'cron APO, but the Sony FE 55 still comes off the winner.

Jim

-- hide signature --
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
rsn48
Veteran MemberPosts: 7,130
Like?
nail in the Leica coffin for decades
In reply to Ron A 19, 3 months ago

But people keep buying them, probably 40 years from now, there will another post about Leica just like yours.

-- hide signature --

Hindsight is better than foresight, except for lost opportunity costs.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
EvokeEmotion
Contributing MemberPosts: 876Gear list
Like?
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin
In reply to FrancoD, 3 months ago

how is one photo going to sink a company like Leica ?

Photography isn't just about sharpness,bokeh, resolution and all of that, if you are not just a pixel peeping geek.

There is such a thing as enjoying the experience so if one prefers to hold, look through and shoot with a particular camera (could be a Leica...) that is the camera that one should use.

No, I don't own a Leica.

Ask a Maserati (whatever...) driver why he drives that car.

It isn't about fuel consumption or speed , it's the joy of driving that particular car.

No, I don't own a Maserati.

"There is such a thing as enjoying the experience so if one prefers to hold, look through and shoot with a particular camera"

I just want to get the shot and get that camera off my face ASAP.

 EvokeEmotion's gear list:EvokeEmotion's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS M Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
TheChefs
Regular MemberPosts: 423
Like?
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin
In reply to EvokeEmotion, 3 months ago

EvokeEmotion wrote:

how is one photo going to sink a company like Leica ?

Photography isn't just about sharpness,bokeh, resolution and all of that, if you are not just a pixel peeping geek.

There is such a thing as enjoying the experience so if one prefers to hold, look through and shoot with a particular camera (could be a Leica...) that is the camera that one should use.

No, I don't own a Leica.

Ask a Maserati (whatever...) driver why he drives that car.

It isn't about fuel consumption or speed , it's the joy of driving that particular car.

No, I don't own a Maserati.

"There is such a thing as enjoying the experience so if one prefers to hold, look through and shoot with a particular camera"

I just want to get the shot and get that camera off my face ASAP.

I guess you must have a terrible camera? I guess the advantage of Leica is that it only covers your right eye and doesn't seat on your face. No, I do not own one, but I can see it's advantages.

Do I care about sharpness of lenses? Nope, they do not make good photographs. All I know is that there were many great photos made 30+ years ago and it's still better than anything on this website.

Sharpness and metrics are for the people who can't take a good photo and they need a way to justify their hobby of being camera and lens collectors IMHO.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
samfan
Contributing MemberPosts: 928Gear list
Like?
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin
In reply to EvokeEmotion, 3 months ago

EvokeEmotion wrote:

"There is such a thing as enjoying the experience so if one prefers to hold, look through and shoot with a particular camera"

I just want to get the shot and get that camera off my face ASAP.

How sad. It means either you have a job you hate, a hobby you don't enjoy, or equipment you don't like using.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
bosjohn21
Senior MemberPosts: 5,446
Like?
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin
In reply to Ron A 19, 3 months ago

It is my understanding that Zeiss is doing sony lenses if so then I am not surprised at the results however in the old days and I think it may still be the case Zeiss optimized their lenses to be as sharp as possible in the center and give a bit up around the edges where as Leitz nee Leica seemed to go for the best edge to edge sharpness. It would be interesting to see the corners compaird.

I would venture that the differences in the lenses in question are meaningless in real world shooting as so many other factors affect sharpness long before the ability of the lens.

-- hide signature --

John aka bosjohn21

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
coudet
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,754
Like?
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin
In reply to Ron A 19, 3 months ago

Ron A 19 wrote:

These comparisons are few and far between. Seems to me the Leica lenses are just not as good as they claim they are. Also, that Sony 55 is incredibly sharp and has less noisy bokeh.

Honestly, both lenses have "shift+del" bokeh in that example.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
fmian
Regular MemberPosts: 319Gear list
Like?
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin
In reply to Ron A 19, 3 months ago

LOL, Camera/Lens tests in an uncontrolled environment...

 fmian's gear list:fmian's gear list
Canon EOS 5D
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
AlbertInFrance
Senior MemberPosts: 2,236Gear list
Like?
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin
In reply to quezra, 3 months ago

quezra wrote:

samfan wrote:

So, which of the other current digital rangefinder cameras would you recommend?

Oh right, there aren't any.

Ah so form is more important than function for you. Then enjoy blowing your $10k on form!

Surely the choice between coupled rangefinder and other focusing methods is functionally based. There are still times when a CRF is an excellent choice.

And no, I have never owned a Leica but I have used CRFs.

-- hide signature --

Albert
Every photograph is an abstraction from reality.
Most people are more interested in the picture than the image.

 AlbertInFrance's gear list:AlbertInFrance's gear list
Canon PowerShot G15 Fujifilm X-E1 Sigma 70-300mm F4-5.6 APO DG Macro Fujifilm XF 18mm F2 R Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R +2 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
D Cox
Senior MemberPosts: 7,586
Like?
Re: Finally a nail in the Leica coffin
In reply to AlbertInFrance, 3 months ago

AlbertInFrance wrote:

quezra wrote:

samfan wrote:

So, which of the other current digital rangefinder cameras would you recommend?

Oh right, there aren't any.

Ah so form is more important than function for you. Then enjoy blowing your $10k on form!

Surely the choice between coupled rangefinder and other focusing methods is functionally based. There are still times when a CRF is an excellent choice.

And no, I have never owned a Leica but I have used CRFs.

The advantage of a rangefinder is that the view never blacks out. There is also often a visible border outside the image area, so you can see people walking into shot. Both are good for street photography.

The disadvantage is that it needs very accurate manufacture and setting up, and can easily drift away from its original accuracy. A Sony A7 focusses from the sensor itself, so is always accurate -- no calibration is required.

However, the M240 does I believe also have a Live View LCD for more careful focussing.

Leica have always made excellent lenses, and so have Zeiss. The image style is different. Other makers are now catching up and the standard of the best lenses is very high indeed -- higher than you need for the average shot printed up to A3 size, but nice for wide views where you can scroll around in the image on screen and find lots of details.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
quezra
Senior MemberPosts: 2,344Gear list
Like?
Re: nail in the Leica coffin for decades
In reply to rsn48, 3 months ago

rsn48 wrote:

But people keep buying them, probably 40 years from now, there will another post about Leica just like yours.

-- hide signature --

Hindsight is better than foresight, except for lost opportunity costs.

There was a time when Leica's performance was unmatched and therefore the best photographers got the Leica cameras and lenses because they were the best.  Not just the most pricey.

That is no longer the case.  Now it relies on its high price by extremely limited supply, targeting of rich customers, and selling the Leica "experience".  That's marketing strategy for you.  If you can win on the cold hard facts, you always sell the cold hard facts. When you can't, you go for waffley BS like "experience" and "fun" and "there's just something about it".

 quezra's gear list:quezra's gear list
Sony Alpha 7 Sony FE 28-70mm F3.5-5.6 OSS Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Sony Alpha NEX-5N Sigma 19mm F2.8 EX DN +7 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads