The FZ1000 replaces the FZ8, FZ200, FZ70!!!!!

Started 6 months ago | Discussions
Mikedigi
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The FZ1000 replaces the FZ8, FZ200, FZ70!!!!!
6 months ago

John Miles wrote:

Rodger1943 wrote:

Another question I have been asking myself, is the FZ1000 really a replacement for the FZ200?

"The FZ200 needs its own upgrade, which can happen now that plainly the protection of the 4/3" range has vanished."

That says it all. Panasonic threw their development and promotion into the G Series as if they thought that the 1/2.3" sensor superzooms were a dying breed. They then dumbed down several successive FZs - a good example of this is the pathetic burst mode of the FZ35/FZ38 - so bad that it looks like a deliberate spoiler.

The FZ200 was their U-turn - a decision that the FZ should, once again, be the leader of the pack, not an also-ran. Yes, previous FZs did a job, but the constant f2.8 lens, flash shoe, burst mode and free-flight LCD of the FZ200 - the whole package - showed real commitment to the small superzoom.

Both the FZ200 and the FZ70 will need replacements, but maybe not urgently. The FZ200 is magic for a lot of people, we like it just the way it is. And I have friends who would not think of shelling out the extra £/$ for the FZ200 but who have found great joy in the FZ70 - it is beyond anything they imagined themselves owning. Plus, of course, both cameras are popular with birders.

Personally, I am not about to dump my FZ200, 588 grammes, for any camera weighing 831 grammes like the FZ1000. I am much more likely to stay with the FZ200 and, say in a couple of years, buy a used FZ1000 as cheaply as possible, give it a whirl for a few months, then resell it on Ebay. I have been there several times with good DSLRs, they did not stay long, they were too big, too heavy, and a hassle.

You may laugh at this, but the tiny FZ8 "needs its own upgrade". I would really love an FZ8 upgrade, under 400 grammes, with a 1/2.3" or 1/2.5" sensor, a 25-400mm lens, a combined manual+power zoom, a free-flight LCD and modern JPEG processing, but with RAW too.

That would be a jewel, a classic, a Mini-Cooper S, a Vespa Sport, an iPad Air . . . . . and I would sell something else to pay the price for it.

[ My go-everywhere, shirt pocket mobile/cellphone is an Alcatel 1010, 2G, 59 grammes. I bought a 147-gramme Nokia Lumia 520 Windows 8 smartphone. It mainly sits in the desk drawer. ]

Meanwhile, the FZ1000 is "up there", and magic for Panasonic. It in no way replaces the FZ8, the FZ200 or the FZ70, and I find the suggestion that it replaces them really quite silly.

FZs - Flawed Heroes all, but Heroes nonetheless, never boring, and much loved.

Thank you, Panasonic.

Mike

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John Miles
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Re: The FZ1000 replaces the FZ8, FZ200, FZ70!!!!!
In reply to Mikedigi, 6 months ago

Mikedigi wrote:

John Miles wrote:

Rodger1943 wrote:

Another question I have been asking myself, is the FZ1000 really a replacement for the FZ200?

"The FZ200 needs its own upgrade, which can happen now that plainly the protection of the 4/3" range has vanished."

That says it all. Panasonic threw their development and promotion into the G Series as if they thought that the 1/2.3" sensor superzooms were a dying breed. They then dumbed down several successive FZs - a good example of this is the pathetic burst mode of the FZ35/FZ38 - so bad that it looks like a deliberate spoiler.

The FZ200 was their U-turn - a decision that the FZ should, once again, be the leader of the pack, not an also-ran. Yes, previous FZs did a job, but the constant f2.8 lens, flash shoe, burst mode and free-flight LCD of the FZ200 - the whole package - showed real commitment to the small superzoom.

Both the FZ200 and the FZ70 will need replacements, but maybe not urgently. The FZ200 is magic for a lot of people, we like it just the way it is. And I have friends who would not think of shelling out the extra £/$ for the FZ200 but who have found great joy in the FZ70 - it is beyond anything they imagined themselves owning. Plus, of course, both cameras are popular with birders.

Personally, I am not about to dump my FZ200, 588 grammes, for any camera weighing 831 grammes like the FZ1000. I am much more likely to stay with the FZ200 and, say in a couple of years, buy a used FZ1000 as cheaply as possible, give it a whirl for a few months, then resell it on Ebay.

Sell it? Pull the other one Mike

I have been there several times with good DSLRs, they did not stay long, they were too big, too heavy, and a hassle.

Just pick it up, count to three, then try to put it down.

You may laugh at this, but the tiny FZ8 "needs its own upgrade".

Ta-Nah!:

http://www.dpreview.com/products/panasonic/compacts/panasonic_dmclz30

OK 552g.

It's too close to an FZ8 replacement me thinks.

I would really love an FZ8 upgrade, under 400 grammes, with a 1/2.3" or 1/2.5" sensor, a 25-400mm lens, a combined manual+power zoom, a free-flight LCD and modern JPEG processing, but with RAW too.

That would be a jewel, a classic, a Mini-Cooper S, a Vespa Sport, an iPad Air . . . . . and I would sell something else to pay the price for it.

[ My go-everywhere, shirt pocket mobile/cellphone is an Alcatel 1010, 2G, 59 grammes. I bought a 147-gramme Nokia Lumia 520 Windows 8 smartphone. It mainly sits in the desk drawer. ]

Meanwhile, the FZ1000 is "up there", and magic for Panasonic. It in no way replaces the FZ8, the FZ200 or the FZ70, and I find the suggestion that it replaces them really quite silly.

FZs - Flawed Heroes all, but Heroes nonetheless, never boring, and much loved.

Thank you, Panasonic.

Mike

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The FZ50: DSLR handling of a bright, non-extending Leica 35-420mm F2.8-3.7 lens. Thank you Mr Ichiro Kitao, Mr Michiharu Uematsu and Mr Yoshiyuki Inoue for having triggered the update to the FZ50.
FZ50 is still great though: http://www.juzaphoto.com/recensione.php?l=en&t=panasonic_lumix_fz50 . Performace diagram here: http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/3862228415/photos/2623982/fz50-performance-range

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quezra
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Re: The FZ1000 replaces the FZ8, FZ200, FZ70!!!!!
In reply to Mikedigi, 6 months ago

I actually want a slightly heavier camera.  The heft lends confidence to the weight - I always found the FZ200 a little bit on the "hollow" side compared to DSLRs and CSCs, which had a greater density.  Undoubtedly the bigger glass is responsible for most of this weight gain in the FZ1000 and that is always going to be the case if you want tele on a 1" sensor.

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Mikedigi
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Re: The FZ1000 replaces the FZ8, FZ200, FZ70!!!!!
In reply to quezra, 6 months ago

quezra wrote:

I actually want a slightly heavier camera.

Well, now there is one - not "slightly" heavier - it's 41% heavier than the FZ200.

The heft lends confidence to the weight - I always found the FZ200 a little bit on the "hollow" side compared to DSLRs and CSCs, which had a greater density. Undoubtedly the bigger glass is responsible for most of this weight gain in the FZ1000 and that is always going to be the case if you want tele on a 1" sensor.

Of course, some people want things heavier, some people want them lighter.

As I said, for me, lighter things go out with me, heavier ones stay at home, after the initial New Toy syndrome has worn off.

But my main point is that the FZ1000 in no way replaces the FZ8, FZ200, FZ70, or any other lighter FZ. It is "up there".

Mike

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Mikedigi
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Re: The FZ1000 replaces the FZ8, FZ200, FZ70!!!!!
In reply to John Miles, 6 months ago

John Miles wrote:

Mikedigi wrote:Personally, I am not about to dump my FZ200, 588 grammes, for any camera weighing 831 grammes like the FZ1000. I am much more likely to stay with the FZ200 and, say in a couple of years, buy a used FZ1000 as cheaply as possible, give it a whirl for a few months, then resell it on Ebay.

Sell it? Pull the other one Mike

I have been there several times with good DSLRs, they did not stay long, they were too big, too heavy, and a hassle.

Just pick it up, count to three, then try to put it down.

Watch me - but if you are right, I shall be happy anyway . . .

You may laugh at this, but the tiny FZ8 "needs its own upgrade".

Ta-Nah!:

http://www.dpreview.com/products/panasonic/compacts/panasonic_dmclz30

OK 552g.

It's too close to an FZ8 replacement me thinks.

LOL! [twice]. Come on, John - this camera:

I would really love an FZ8 upgrade, under 400 grammes, with a 1/2.3" or 1/2.5" sensor, a 25-400mm lens, a combined manual+power zoom, a free-flight LCD and modern JPEG processing, but with RAW too.

That would be a jewel, a classic, a Mini-Cooper S, a Vespa Sport, an iPad Air . . . . . and I would sell something else to pay the price for it.

would be expensive. The LZ30 is a very cheap superzoom, probably excellent value, but in no way what I am talking about.

Mike

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yonsarh
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Re: The FZ1000 replaces the FZ8, FZ200, FZ70!!!!!
In reply to quezra, 6 months ago

quezra wrote:

I actually want a slightly heavier camera. The heft lends confidence to the weight - I always found the FZ200 a little bit on the "hollow" side compared to DSLRs and CSCs, which had a greater density. Undoubtedly the bigger glass is responsible for most of this weight gain in the FZ1000 and that is always going to be the case if you want tele on a 1" sensor.

Yes, I thought so too. I wish FZ1000 was bit more heavier

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quezra
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Re: The FZ1000 replaces the FZ8, FZ200, FZ70!!!!!
In reply to Mikedigi, 6 months ago

Mikedigi wrote:

quezra wrote:

I actually want a slightly heavier camera.

Well, now there is one - not "slightly" heavier - it's 41% heavier than the FZ200.

I don't know how often you go to the gym, but in my part of the woods, 300g is "slightly".

The heft lends confidence to the weight - I always found the FZ200 a little bit on the "hollow" side compared to DSLRs and CSCs, which had a greater density. Undoubtedly the bigger glass is responsible for most of this weight gain in the FZ1000 and that is always going to be the case if you want tele on a 1" sensor.

Of course, some people want things heavier, some people want them lighter.

As I said, for me, lighter things go out with me, heavier ones stay at home, after the initial New Toy syndrome has worn off.

But my main point is that the FZ1000 in no way replaces the FZ8, FZ200, FZ70, or any other lighter FZ. It is "up there".

Of course, every individual's choice is their own to make. And it is always best to skip a generation even when something clearly does replace another (like a Canon EOS 650D replaced by 700D - so what?).

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arbuz
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weight issue
In reply to Mikedigi, 6 months ago

so much fuzzz about 250g. This is an obsession. Are you one some diet program?

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kkardster
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Re: The FZ1000 replaces the FZ8, FZ200, FZ70!!!!!
In reply to Mikedigi, 6 months ago

Mikedigi wrote:

John Miles wrote:

Rodger1943 wrote:

Another question I have been asking myself, is the FZ1000 really a replacement for the FZ200?

"The FZ200 needs its own upgrade, which can happen now that plainly the protection of the 4/3" range has vanished."

That says it all. Panasonic threw their development and promotion into the G Series as if they thought that the 1/2.3" sensor superzooms were a dying breed. They then dumbed down several successive FZs - a good example of this is the pathetic burst mode of the FZ35/FZ38 - so bad that it looks like a deliberate spoiler.

The FZ200 was their U-turn - a decision that the FZ should, once again, be the leader of the pack, not an also-ran. Yes, previous FZs did a job, but the constant f2.8 lens, flash shoe, burst mode and free-flight LCD of the FZ200 - the whole package - showed real commitment to the small superzoom.

I agree with your overall message here, and that the FZ200 with its constant f/2.8 lens was a game changer. But I disagree about it being the determined U-turn that returned the FZ to the leader of the pack. The FZ100 had most of what the FZ200 offers and the FZ150 had all but the constant f/2.8 and high-res EVF. The FZ150 was lauded as the best of the breed by many, so I see all the FZ models taken together as incremental improvements in the series that often topped themselves - not necessarily a game of "catch up".

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kkardster
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Re: weight issue
In reply to arbuz, 6 months ago

arbuz wrote:

so much fuzzz about 250g. This is an obsession. Are you one some diet program?

My doctor recommends the FZ1000 over its smaller competition. At least I'll get some exercise!

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Mikedigi
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Re: The FZ1000 replaces the FZ8, FZ200, FZ70!!!!!
In reply to quezra, 6 months ago

quezra wrote:

Mikedigi wrote:

quezra wrote:

I actually want a slightly heavier camera.

Well, now there is one - not "slightly" heavier - it's 41% heavier than the FZ200.

I don't know how often you go to the gym, but in my part of the woods, 300g is "slightly".

It has nothing to do with the gym.  I often used my Nikon D90/18-105mm with one hand. Nice camera, but it spent too long in the cupboard/closet so it had to go.

Coming to the FZ1000 from DSLRs, the FZ1000 is light.

Coming to the FZ1000 from the FZ8 via the FZ200, the FZ1000 is heavy.

You and I will never agree on whether "light" means "better" or "worse", that's life.

Mike

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Mikedigi
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Re: The FZ1000 replaces the FZ8, FZ200, FZ70!!!!!
In reply to kkardster, 6 months ago

kkardster wrote:

Mikedigi wrote:

John Miles wrote:

Rodger1943 wrote:

Another question I have been asking myself, is the FZ1000 really a replacement for the FZ200?

"The FZ200 needs its own upgrade, which can happen now that plainly the protection of the 4/3" range has vanished."

That says it all. Panasonic threw their development and promotion into the G Series as if they thought that the 1/2.3" sensor superzooms were a dying breed. They then dumbed down several successive FZs - a good example of this is the pathetic burst mode of the FZ35/FZ38 - so bad that it looks like a deliberate spoiler.

The FZ200 was their U-turn - a decision that the FZ should, once again, be the leader of the pack, not an also-ran. Yes, previous FZs did a job, but the constant f2.8 lens, flash shoe, burst mode and free-flight LCD of the FZ200 - the whole package - showed real commitment to the small superzoom.

I agree with your overall message here, and that the FZ200 with its constant f/2.8 lens was a game changer. But I disagree about it being the determined U-turn that returned the FZ to the leader of the pack. The FZ100 had most of what the FZ200 offers and the FZ150 had all but the constant f/2.8 and high-res EVF. The FZ150 was lauded as the best of the breed by many, so I see all the FZ models taken together as incremental improvements in the series that often topped themselves - not necessarily a game of "catch up".

Thanks, you may be right.

Mike

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cainn24
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Re: weight issue
In reply to arbuz, 6 months ago

arbuz wrote:

so much fuzzz about 250g. This is an obsession. Are you one some diet program?

The FZ1000 is lighter than a G6 with a 14-140mm lens on it, yet it has more reach and comparable IQ. The G6 with the 45-200 is a tiny bit lighter for equivalent reach, but then you've lost your wide end. The more recent higher-end m43 bodies are generally even heavier, unless you want to do away with the nice grippy DSLR-style form factor.

I guess a lot of people just aren't willing to accept a little bit of extra weight in order to get a much better sensor into the superzoom equation. Can't really fault that though, since photography, as a hobby, can and should be what you personally want it to be.

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Mikedigi
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Re: weight issue
In reply to arbuz, 6 months ago

arbuz wrote:

so much fuzzz about 250g. This is an obsession. Are you one some diet program?

You come from system cameras, where "light" means cheap and nasty.

I come from FZs, where "light" means easier to travel with.

You like heavy, I like light. No problem.

Mike

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Hatstand
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FZ200 + TC weighs more than FZ1000
In reply to Mikedigi, 6 months ago

FZ200 with a decent teleconverter (Canon TC-DC58A, or Nikon TC-E17ED)... weighs significantly more (and is probably bigger), than the FZ1000.

So personally, I would not be that bothered about the size or weight.
What does bother me, is lack of reach.

It will just about match a bare FZ200 with it's built-in sensor crop (EZ extra optical zoom): Crop to 10 megapixels and it's 35mm - 560mm. OK, but nowhere near the reach of the FZ200 with a physical teleconverter.

In-camera sensor crop to 5MP and it's got 800mm reach. I could just about "make do" with 800mm, but 5MP images? I could work with 5MP... it's still way biggger than my computer screen, and it would print at the sizes I typically use... but that lens would have to be seriously PIN SHARP...!

Regardless of improved IQ, I just can't see it beating an FZ200 + TC combo for super zoom ratios. But I would LOVE to proven wrong!

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Mikedigi
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Re: weight issue
In reply to cainn24, 6 months ago

cainn24 wrote:

I guess a lot of people just aren't willing to accept a little bit of extra weight in order to get a much better sensor into the superzoom equation. Can't really fault that though, since photography, as a hobby, can and should be what you personally want it to be.

I have never said that the FZ1000 should be lighter, or cheaper, or more like the FZ200.

The FZ1000 is great, it will become iconic and it is the size and weight it has to be, in order to be superior, in many respects, to the FZ200 etc.

But the humbler, cheaper, lighter FZs have a success story of their own and a large, enthusiastic following - so my hope, and opinion, is that the cheaper, lighter FZs will continue to have their own upgrades.

Mike

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Greynerd
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Re: The FZ1000 replaces the FZ8, FZ200, FZ70!!!!!
In reply to yonsarh, 6 months ago

You could always use the tripod socket to screw a metal plate on to the underside of the camera.

yonsarh wrote:

quezra wrote:

I actually want a slightly heavier camera. The heft lends confidence to the weight - I always found the FZ200 a little bit on the "hollow" side compared to DSLRs and CSCs, which had a greater density. Undoubtedly the bigger glass is responsible for most of this weight gain in the FZ1000 and that is always going to be the case if you want tele on a 1" sensor.

Yes, I thought so too. I wish FZ1000 was bit more heavier

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Hatstand
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Reach is King, in the land of the superzoom
In reply to Mikedigi, 6 months ago

I generally agree that FZ1000 is not a replacement for the FZ200.

It seems to me, they started with the 1" 20MP sensor, and then designed/built the FZ1000 around it.

And what is the point of a 1" sensor? Isn't it purely, better image quality than smaller sensors? Better dynamic range and lower noise?

More image quality is great of course. But I contend that image quality is not the #1 priority for anyone who buys/uses a "proper" superzoom. Reach is #1 ! Did we not all deliberately sacrifice a huge chunk of IQ, to get more reach?!

So I am sceptical that the FZ1000 is aimed at the traditional supezoom market. It seems to me, it fills a gap in the market for DSLR-type owners who'd like a "smaller/lighter" lens with "long" reach, and "reasonable" IQ from a sensor that is not "pinhead" sized. As such, it doesn't replace the FZ200, or any other half-decent superzoom.

Not saying I won't buy one, heheh But it's not a straight-forward decision for me... I already have a Stylus 1 which wins on size... and FZ200 + TC which wins on reach. FZ1000 needs to win on a lot more than just IQ, or my wallet stays in my pocket...!

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Mikedigi
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Re: The FZ1000 replaces the FZ8, FZ200, FZ70!!!!!
In reply to Greynerd, 6 months ago

Greynerd wrote:

You could always use the tripod socket to screw a metal plate on to the underside of the camera.

yonsarh wrote:

quezra wrote:

I actually want a slightly heavier camera. The heft lends confidence to the weight - I always found the FZ200 a little bit on the "hollow" side compared to DSLRs and CSCs, which had a greater density. Undoubtedly the bigger glass is responsible for most of this weight gain in the FZ1000 and that is always going to be the case if you want tele on a 1" sensor.

Yes, I thought so too. I wish FZ1000 was bit more heavier

LOL! Brilliant, a cheap solution.

Mike

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kkardster
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Re: Reach is King, in the land of the superzoom
In reply to Hatstand, 6 months ago

Hatstand wrote:

I generally agree that FZ1000 is not a replacement for the FZ200.

It seems to me, they started with the 1" 20MP sensor, and then designed/built the FZ1000 around it.

And what is the point of a 1" sensor? Isn't it purely, better image quality than smaller sensors? Better dynamic range and lower noise?

YES!

More image quality is great of course. But I contend that image quality is not the #1 priority for anyone who buys/uses a "proper" superzoom. Reach is #1 !

The "superzoom" category started out with lower reach than the FZ1000 is capable of - be that optical or cropped. What's "proper" is debatable as is your assumption that reach is #1 for everybody.

Did we not all deliberately sacrifice a huge chunk of IQ, to get more reach?!

We had no choice and - if you're honest - you'd admit that you'd prefer the IQ afforded by the 1" sensor if it fit into the FZ200 over its [somewhat limited] pinhead sensor.

So I am sceptical that the FZ1000 is aimed at the traditional supezoom market. It seems to me, it fills a gap in the market for DSLR-type owners who'd like a "smaller/lighter" lens with "long" reach, and "reasonable" IQ from a sensor that is not "pinhead" sized. As such, it doesn't replace the FZ200, or any other half-decent superzoom.

Of course - because it's not! Even Panasonic makes no such claim for the FZ1000 as there's no mention of or even inference to the word "superzoom" in their press releases thus far - only that it's the best bridge camera to date. Note that the FZ moniker has always been associated with bridge cameras, but not necessarily superzoom cameras. The only mention of the word "super" in Panasonics press release is this: Super-fast LUMIX DFD Focusing Technology

Panasonic FZ1000 Press Release

That press release begins with:

Panasonic announced today the new LUMIX DMC-FZ1000 (FZ1000) -- the world’s first digital compact camera to offer 4K video recording capability*. The FZ1000 boasts a one-inch, High Sensitivity MOS Sensor and 4K video recording capability. The latest member of the popular LUMIX FZ series, the FZ1000 will be available at www.shop.panasonic.com and select channel partners in late July with an MSRP of $899.99.

As noted the FZ is a series of bridge cameras, not necessarily limited to the longest-reaching aspects of the superzoom world. It's been the press and those in these forums that have elevated the FZ1000 to superzoom status.

Not saying I won't buy one, heheh But it's not a straight-forward decision for me... I already have a Stylus 1 which wins on size... and FZ200 + TC which wins on reach. FZ1000 needs to win on a lot more than just IQ, or my wallet stays in my pocket...!

Of course the FZ200 wins on reach - and Panasonic clearly wants it that way! We all agree the FZ1000 is not intended to replace the FZ200 - the insistence that is should when it's clearly not meant to be only reinforces that the improved sensor/IQ of a holy grail than pure reach. We all need to stop putting a square peg in a round hole!

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