Is the N1 the action/wildlife kit for me?

Started 6 months ago | Discussions
Texchappy
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Is the N1 the action/wildlife kit for me?
6 months ago

I've been trying to balance system(s) to fit my photography needs for a bit now.  I'm a wounded warrior with now limited arm strength.  I've found myself lately wanting to get more wildlife shots (prairie dogs/burrowing owls/etc).  I'm also finding that my youngest boy is getting interested in sports (both inside and outside).

I started out with film D-SLRs and then had a D40 for quite a while.  I started to look for a lighter camera rig as my arms began to tire quickly using my D40 (even with the cheap kit lenses I had). My journey has gone from a short stint with an OM-D E-M5 that was returned (defective) to a Fuji X Pro 1 that I love but can't keep up with long/fast shots to getting another DSLR (Canon T4i) and resigning myself to the weight.

The someone suggested the Nikon 1 system to take a look.  It seems to hit a lot of the boxes.  I know that high iso performance could be a problem and I have to consider that.  I'm not as concerned about DOF so much.

As I try to weight the Nikon 1's, it seems to boiled down to AF speed and image quality.  So just how good are these?

Bonus question: the S1 is the least expensive 'buy-in' to the system; will it give me a good taste of what the system can do before investing more heavily into a V2/V3 and lenses?

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Whorty1970
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Re: Is the N1 the action/wildlife kit for me?
In reply to Texchappy, 6 months ago

You could consider at V2 + FT1 adapter + 55-300 VR DX lens. I've seen some nice pics on here of that setup, and the weight shouldn't be too bad.

The 30-110 lens is very compact and nice image quality but only gives a 35mm equivalent length of 300mm, so maybe too short. But if you can get close to the wildlife this might be an OK setup. I love this lens on my V1.

If money no option, then a V3 and the new 70-300cx is the one to look at. But this is the best side of $2k so depends on your budget!

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WSSA #348

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Texchappy
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Re: Is the N1 the action/wildlife kit for me?
In reply to Whorty1970, 6 months ago

Whorty1970 wrote:

You could consider at V2 + FT1 adapter + 55-300 VR DX lens. I've seen some nice pics on here of that setup, and the weight shouldn't be too bad.

The 30-110 lens is very compact and nice image quality but only gives a 35mm equivalent length of 300mm, so maybe too short. But if you can get close to the wildlife this might be an OK setup. I love this lens on my V1.

If money no option, then a V3 and the new 70-300cx is the one to look at. But this is the best side of $2k so depends on your budget!

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WSSA #348

The price of the V3 and the new cx lens is part of the reason I just wanted to get my feet wet first.  If I get a little into it and it does well by me then I could either sell some of the Fuji gear and/or the Canon rig to fund part of that purchase.

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Sonyshine
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Re: Is the N1 the action/wildlife kit for me?
In reply to Whorty1970, 6 months ago

The 1 series cameras are not only nice and light  they are surprisingly good with native and Nikon AFS lenses on the FT1 adapter - they are fun too - once you get used to their few quirks!

Here is my V1 set  - good, bad and indifferent but I hope it shows some variety and what this little camera can do:

http://www.ipernity.com/doc/i.kirk/album/637367

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Whorty1970
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Re: Is the N1 the action/wildlife kit for me?
In reply to Texchappy, 6 months ago

Texchappy wrote:

Whorty1970 wrote:

You could consider at V2 + FT1 adapter + 55-300 VR DX lens. I've seen some nice pics on here of that setup, and the weight shouldn't be too bad.

The 30-110 lens is very compact and nice image quality but only gives a 35mm equivalent length of 300mm, so maybe too short. But if you can get close to the wildlife this might be an OK setup. I love this lens on my V1.

If money no option, then a V3 and the new 70-300cx is the one to look at. But this is the best side of $2k so depends on your budget!

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WSSA #348

The price of the V3 and the new cx lens is part of the reason I just wanted to get my feet wet first. If I get a little into it and it does well by me then I could either sell some of the Fuji gear and/or the Canon rig to fund part of that purchase.

Fair enough ... the V3 and new 70-300cx is steep!

Definitely look at a used V1 or V2 then, with adapter and 55-300 (which you can pick up in the UK seriously cheap). If this goes well, as the other poster wrote, the FT1 adapter opens up the V1/V2 to the F mount AFS lenses very nicely. I picked up a cheap 40mm macro lens the other day and have had some good fun shooting macro at an effective 100mm length

I have a D300s, but love shooting the V1 - it's so small and light I can take it anywhere.

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anthhope
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Re: Is the N1 the action/wildlife kit for me?
In reply to Texchappy, 6 months ago

Texchappy wrote:

I've been trying to balance system(s) to fit my photography needs for a bit now. I'm a wounded warrior with now limited arm strength. I've found myself lately wanting to get more wildlife shots (prairie dogs/burrowing owls/etc). I'm also finding that my youngest boy is getting interested in sports (both inside and outside).

I started out with film D-SLRs and then had a D40 for quite a while. I started to look for a lighter camera rig as my arms began to tire quickly using my D40 (even with the cheap kit lenses I had). My journey has gone from a short stint with an OM-D E-M5 that was returned (defective) to a Fuji X Pro 1 that I love but can't keep up with long/fast shots to getting another DSLR (Canon T4i) and resigning myself to the weight.

The someone suggested the Nikon 1 system to take a look. It seems to hit a lot of the boxes. I know that high iso performance could be a problem and I have to consider that. I'm not as concerned about DOF so much.

As I try to weight the Nikon 1's, it seems to boiled down to AF speed and image quality. So just how good are these?

Bonus question: the S1 is the least expensive 'buy-in' to the system; will it give me a good taste of what the system can do before investing more heavily into a V2/V3 and lenses?

Hi,

I'd recommend you buying a second hand V1 with a 30-110mm lens, as a cheap way to try the 1 system out. If you don't like it, you can sell it and get your money back :).

I you to use a Canon 1 series, but now use the a V2. It's AF and FPS is superb for wildlife, especially BIF.

Good luck

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Anthony
www.anthhope.com

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Texchappy
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I've read the 11-27.5 is better than the 10-30?
In reply to Whorty1970, 6 months ago
No text.
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pwilly
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Re: Is the N1 the action/wildlife kit for me?
In reply to Texchappy, 6 months ago

Texchappy wrote:

I've been trying to balance system(s) to fit my photography needs for a bit now. I'm a wounded warrior with now limited arm strength. I've found myself lately wanting to get more wildlife shots (prairie dogs/burrowing owls/etc). I'm also finding that my youngest boy is getting interested in sports (both inside and outside).

Thank you for your service. In Alaska you probably don't need long tele to get up close and personal, and ~300mm with the 110 should get you there. You may decide to get the 70-300 later.

I started out with film D-SLRs and then had a D40 for quite a while. I started to look for a lighter camera rig as my arms began to tire quickly using my D40 (even with the cheap kit lenses I had). My journey has gone from a short stint with an OM-D E-M5 that was returned (defective) to a Fuji X Pro 1 that I love but can't keep up with long/fast shots to getting another DSLR (Canon T4i) and resigning myself to the weight.

The someone suggested the Nikon 1 system to take a look. It seems to hit a lot of the boxes. I know that high iso performance could be a problem and I have to consider that. I'm not as concerned about DOF so much.

The high ISO performance is overblown, it is 71% of the sensor diagonal of m4/3 so it is OK, just not FF.

As I try to weight the Nikon 1's, it seems to boiled down to AF speed and image quality. So just how good are these?

I find myself using the N1s way more than my D700, they fit, they are light, and the IQ is fine. Performance wise, with fast moving objects the V1 keeps up with my D700, and that is really good.

Bonus question: the S1 is the least expensive 'buy-in' to the system; will it give me a good taste of what the system can do before investing more heavily into a V2/V3 and lenses?

I would suggest a refurb or used V1, adorama has it with the 10-30 for $250. It is much more than the S1 and the viewfinder is useful!

Get a 30-110 refurbished and I'll bet you sell off, or pass down to the kids all your other gear. It is that good!!

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pwilly
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Re: I've read the 11-27.5 is better than the 10-30?
In reply to Texchappy, 6 months ago

Texchappy wrote:

Optically yes, but no VR so it you are at all wobbly you get better images with the 10-30.

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dougjgreen1
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Re: Is the N1 the action/wildlife kit for me?
In reply to pwilly, 6 months ago

pwilly wrote:

Texchappy wrote:

I've been trying to balance system(s) to fit my photography needs for a bit now. I'm a wounded warrior with now limited arm strength. I've found myself lately wanting to get more wildlife shots (prairie dogs/burrowing owls/etc). I'm also finding that my youngest boy is getting interested in sports (both inside and outside).

Thank you for your service. In Alaska you probably don't need long tele to get up close and personal, and ~300mm with the 110 should get you there. You may decide to get the 70-300 later.

I started out with film D-SLRs and then had a D40 for quite a while. I started to look for a lighter camera rig as my arms began to tire quickly using my D40 (even with the cheap kit lenses I had). My journey has gone from a short stint with an OM-D E-M5 that was returned (defective) to a Fuji X Pro 1 that I love but can't keep up with long/fast shots to getting another DSLR (Canon T4i) and resigning myself to the weight.

The someone suggested the Nikon 1 system to take a look. It seems to hit a lot of the boxes. I know that high iso performance could be a problem and I have to consider that. I'm not as concerned about DOF so much.

The high ISO performance is overblown, it is 71% of the sensor diagonal of m4/3 so it is OK, just not FF.

The CX sensors were close to Micro 4/3 sensors 3 years ago When the V1 was basically up against the E-P3 GH2 and GX1, but Micro 4/3 sensors have improved far more in the past 2-3 years (as has the Sony 1" sensor) than Nikon 1 sensors have. What used to be a small differential is now at least 1 stop of High ISO sensitivity, and close to 2 stops of DR. Micro 4/3 sensors are closer to the Nikon DX sensors than they are to the Aptina 1" sensor nowadays. Which isn't to say that the entire camera is, but certainly the sensor is.

That being said, at ISOs up to 800, maybe 1600 in a pinch, the Nikon 1 system is quite useful, especially when shooting action.

As I try to weight the Nikon 1's, it seems to boiled down to AF speed and image quality. So just how good are these?

I find myself using the N1s way more than my D700, they fit, they are light, and the IQ is fine. Performance wise, with fast moving objects the V1 keeps up with my D700, and that is really good.

Bonus question: the S1 is the least expensive 'buy-in' to the system; will it give me a good taste of what the system can do before investing more heavily into a V2/V3 and lenses?

I would suggest a refurb or used V1, adorama has it with the 10-30 for $250. It is much more than the S1 and the viewfinder is useful!

Get a 30-110 refurbished and I'll bet you sell off, or pass down to the kids all your other gear. It is that good!!

I would agree that the V1 is a better entry point than the S1 is. Cost-wise, a used V1 body in very nice condition can be gotten for under $200 without much difficulty. And the 30-110mm lens is just a really fine inexpensive telephoto lens in any case.

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Texchappy
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The N1 experiment begins
In reply to dougjgreen1, 6 months ago

We'll see how it goes - Just ordered the refurb V1 and 10-30vr from Adorama.  Should be here in a week or two and then the experiment begins.

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Arved
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Re: Is the N1 the action/wildlife kit for me?
In reply to Whorty1970, 6 months ago

Whorty1970 wrote:

Definitely look at a used V1 or V2 then

Can I suggest a factory refurb V1 kit? It comes with the 10-30 for $250 at Adorama in any color you want, so long as it's black.

For $250, I couldn't see how I'd go wrong. Just arrived this afternoon - a day early!

Yes, there are some quirks, and the kit lens, like many other kit lenses, may not be an ideal choice, but it will definitely give you an idea of how the system will work for you.

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Tord S Eriksson
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Re: Is the N1 the action/wildlife kit for me?
In reply to Texchappy, 6 months ago

I almost exclusively photograph wildlife, not least birds.

I have owned the V1 since it was released, and a V2 a few weeks, and to me they are ideal for wildlife and action. The V2 is ideal with the AF-S 80-400 VR II N, a neat compact package weighing in total around two kilograms, equal to a 200-1000mm lens on my D600 — amazing!

The primes are all really nice, and the 30-110 a light superb zoom (equaling a 80-300 on my D600).

My first longer lens was the AF-S 70-300 VR, which works very well on my V1, but also on D600.

The only disadvantage has to do with the size of the sensor: Smaller sensors have slightly worse dynamic range and work worse at high ISO.

So I keep ISO at base ISO on either camera, changing to the D600 at sunset, and sunrise!

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Tord S Eriksson
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Re: Is the N1 the action/wildlife kit for me?
In reply to Tord S Eriksson, 6 months ago

The sunrise picture was taken at the same time as the first image, but the EXIF has somehow gone missing!

As others have pointed out, the worse the light, the more important it is to lower the ISO you use (feels contrary maybe, but that's how one did it in the film days, and it works well with the Nikon 1 cameras)! Noise is least, and dynamic range best, at base ISO, so that's what you need to use when the light is dim, and adjust aperture and shutter accordingly!

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dougjgreen1
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Re: Is the N1 the action/wildlife kit for me?
In reply to Tord S Eriksson, 6 months ago

Tord S Eriksson wrote:

The sunrise picture was taken at the same time as the first image, but the EXIF has somehow gone missing!

As others have pointed out, the worse the light, the more important it is to lower the ISO you use (feels contrary maybe, but that's how one did it in the film days, and it works well with the Nikon 1 cameras)! Noise is least, and dynamic range best, at base ISO, so that's what you need to use when the light is dim, and adjust aperture and shutter accordingly!

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tord (at) mindless (dot) com
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Assuming you can.  We're talking wildlife, which implies moving subject matter.  The more the subject moves, and the more the light is sketchy, the more the larger formats will outperform the N1 despite needing to crop to fewer pixels in the frame.   A 24 MP DX DSLR cropped down to the same FOV will give you fewer pixels, but close to two stops more sensitivity and DR.   An FX DSLR will give fewer pixels yet, but their advantage vs N1 is more like 3 stops.

As I said, if you can keep the N1 shot to ISO 400 or less with the appropriate aperture and shutter speed, the N1 can compete - and may even be the best solution for IQ.  But if you need to shoot at higher than 400, it degrades noticeably, and by 1600, there's no doubt the bigger formats will win the day.   And since this application is for long lenses and potentially moving subject matter, that's why the DX or FX SLR cropped down still delivers - despite putting fewer pixels in the frame than the N1 with the same lens.  Because you're looking at probably f4 or slower, and reasonably high shutter speeds, you are likely to need a reasonably fast ISO to get the right exposure.

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yslee1
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Re: Is the N1 the action/wildlife kit for me?
In reply to Texchappy, 6 months ago

Texchappy wrote:

I started out with film D-SLRs and then had a D40 for quite a while. I started to look for a lighter camera rig as my arms began to tire quickly using my D40 (even with the cheap kit lenses I had).

What lenses did you have? Because the D40's kit lenses are fairly light to begin with.

If you had what I think you had, then it's very likely you will need to stick to the Nikon 1 native. Might or might not be long enough for what you want.

My suggestion is to wait and see if BuyDig on eBay has that US$200 sale for the J1 + 2 lenses again. The J1 isn't perfect but it'll give you an idea of what the system is like.

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jimoyer
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Re: The N1 experiment begins
In reply to Texchappy, 6 months ago

The nice thing is that even if you decide it's not for you, you'll be able to sell it for what you had in to it.

You were pretty quick on the purchase.  Had I seen this earlier, I would have sent a V1 with a lens or two down for you to play around with to see if you liked it.

One thing you DO want to pick up is one of the flashes.  Inside, you'll want it for sure, but they also work rather nicely outside as a fill flash (within reason...they're not very large).

I've said this before, but I think it perhaps is even more relevant for you.....one of the things I love about the 1 system in general and the V1 specifically is one of the things it's critics complain the most about....very little external control, and everything is menu based.  I've found I absolutely love that because it makes me pay attention to capturing the image, and not screwing around with my camera.

I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

All my long windedness aside, let me get to the most important part...........Thank you for your service sir.

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D300SandV1shooter
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Re: Is the N1 the action/wildlife kit for me?
In reply to Tord S Eriksson, 6 months ago

Tord S Eriksson wrote:

The sunrise picture was taken at the same time as the first image, but the EXIF has somehow gone missing!

As others have pointed out, the worse the light, the more important it is to lower the ISO you use (feels contrary maybe, but that's how one did it in the film days, and it works well with the Nikon 1 cameras)! Noise is least, and dynamic range best, at base ISO, so that's what you need to use when the light is dim, and adjust aperture and shutter accordingly!

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tord (at) mindless (dot) com
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Your photo set above (with EXIFs showing raised ISO) doesn't illustrate your teaching point about ideally using base ISO in dim light, but rather its impracticality.

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Tord S Eriksson
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Re: Is the N1 the action/wildlife kit for me?
In reply to dougjgreen1, 6 months ago

dougjgreen1 wrote:

Tord S Eriksson wrote:

The sunrise picture was taken at the same time as the first image, but the EXIF has somehow gone missing!

As others have pointed out, the worse the light, the more important it is to lower the ISO you use (feels contrary maybe, but that's how one did it in the film days, and it works well with the Nikon 1 cameras)! Noise is least, and dynamic range best, at base ISO, so that's what you need to use when the light is dim, and adjust aperture and shutter accordingly!

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tord (at) mindless (dot) com
Mostly Nikon V1, & D600, user

Assuming you can. We're talking wildlife, which implies moving subject matter. The more the subject moves, and the more the light is sketchy, the more the larger formats will outperform the N1 despite needing to crop to fewer pixels in the frame. A 24 MP DX DSLR cropped down to the same FOV will give you fewer pixels, but close to two stops more sensitivity and DR. An FX DSLR will give fewer pixels yet, but their advantage vs N1 is more like 3 stops.

As I said, if you can keep the N1 shot to ISO 400 or less with the appropriate aperture and shutter speed, the N1 can compete - and may even be the best solution for IQ. But if you need to shoot at higher than 400, it degrades noticeably, and by 1600, there's no doubt the bigger formats will win the day. And since this application is for long lenses and potentially moving subject matter, that's why the DX or FX SLR cropped down still delivers - despite putting fewer pixels in the frame than the N1 with the same lens. Because you're looking at probably f4 or slower, and reasonably high shutter speeds, you are likely to need a reasonably fast ISO to get the right exposure.

If you're good at PP you can get results like Bobby's:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53859746

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Sonyshine
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Re: The N1 experiment begins
In reply to Texchappy, 6 months ago

Enjoy it....then get the FT1 adapter and watch your wallet empty as you lust after more Nikon AFS lenses..... 

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